Mackensen did actually say about Hitler he "won his heart". That he was just in it for his country is a debunked myth, he admired the man.
von Mackensen as coup leader. Opinions?
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And from when is that Quote? And from what source? Honestly simple curiousity here. Always good to learn.
Well, yes. Some of them were killed, and a little of them was 87 years old and have five children.
I mean, I would like him so much more if he'd actually try to. But, well, we get what we can get - he was quite a face of Deutsches Heer, so it's quite logical to put him on display.
I'm sorry, can you provide context for this line?
And from when is that Quote? And from what source? Honestly simple curiousity here. Always good to learn.
Right now I'm not completely sure what the context was, but as for the source that would be Schwarzmüller's biography, probably still the most comprehensive piece of research about Mackensen.
And from when is that Quote? And from what source? Honestly simple curiousity here. Always good to learn.
This line was taken from a letter written by Mackensen, addressed to Hindenburg in February 1934. The full citation is:
"[...} as a statesman, soldier, and human being, he has fully won my heart."
The letter itself is archived by the military archive in Freiburg (Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv, or BAMA). It also gets mentioned in this book, unfortunately it appears to be available only in German:
Malinowski, Stephan: Vom König zum Führer. Sozialer Niedergang und politische Radikalisierung im deutschen Adel zwischen Kaiserreich und NS-Staat. p. 513
Actually I don't believe they would be depressed. Don't believe they did what they did for pop-cultural lightspots.
I do afraid Beck hadn't enough PR power. I mean, von Mackensen on provisional leader post means "ok, Germany, all is good, all is nice, let's get calm and allow Good Old Times to return". It's not a reward he get for being great anti-Nazist, and it actually isn't matter was he such a man or not.
I mean, are we actually trying to say that von Mackensen actually believed that Hitler is better for Germany then Hohenzollerns? If not, if we can believe he would secure return of Hohenzollerns and make Germans feel normal, he is great choice.
What about this letter is? Would I be right if I suppose it's something about "herr Hindenburg, your Chancellor is quite a nice man, with all his promises about great restoration of German power and restoration of monarchy"?
I'm sorry, I don't read German and can't find text of the letter to put into translator. Not as I believe it's really matters here, but I'm interested.
@Lumpy
Welcome to the HOI4. Now you start to understand, what I felt, when saw Vlasov, leading NKVD coup in USSR.
Welcome to the HOI4. Now you start to understand, what I felt, when saw Vlasov, leading NKVD coup in USSR.
Well, I started answering you in another thread, but it was closed before I managed to finish; don't exactly want this thread to take same fate.
If you're interested, though, I believe we can discuss in by conversation.
The thing is, von Hindenburg didn't like Hitler a bit. He despised him for not being of noble origin and often referred to him as "the private", in reference to the rank he held in World War I. He grossly underestimated him, and sought to instrumentalize him. Little did he know that he was the one that was harnessed by Hitler. The rest is history.
We can assume that Mackensen and Hindenburg were on quite good terms with each other, they served on the eastern Front together in the Great War, and were both Prussian officers of noble descent. It is safe to assume that Mackensen tried to convince Hindenburg that Hitler was a good chap. Why else would you fancy someone in a letter to someone you know doesn't like that said person?
Yup; even more, as I know, von Hinderburg was coerced to appoint Hitler by bribes and blackmail.
Von Mackensen wasn't of noble descent, he was commoner by birth.
Sure. You have your old chap, who was coerced to appoint a man he don't like. He speaks badly about such a man. Won't you try to say "you know, this guy actually not bad", if you haven't reasons to believe so?
I mean, by no means we can say von Mackensen IRL believed Hitler was a BAD chancelor who would put his country to death. The very divergence point I see in this althistory would be "some conspirators against Hitler managed to convince von Mackensen that Hitler would be catastophe for Germany". "You know, I speaked with that guy you appoint, so I believe he isn't so bad you think. He promising great future for Germany, and, well, I'm kinda convinced".
I wonder what the event will read when the coup is succesful? Will Hitler commit suicide or will he be hanged?
Whenever PDx chooses a leader for a country its 51% coolness factor and 49% historical accuracy.
Whenever PDx chooses a leader for a country its 51% coolness factor and 49% historical accuracy.
He's mostlikely going to escape
As happens with every single leader in the game
Well, he kind of did, or he would suffer the fate of Rommel.
They would in no way be the same. Let`s do simple math: Wermacht before 1933 - 100k men. Assuming the amount of Nazi sympathisers is generally uniform, we can high-roll the amount of people who could be loyal to just an army figure at that.
Most of younger soldiers probably made it thrugh Hitler Youth or SA before joining after 1933 expancion.
Nazi had in 5 million of hitler youth members, 200k SS members, and 2-3 millions former SA members. As you can note numbers don`t favor German military at all, even if we assume that only some 10-15% of the Nazi supporters would fight.
Hence, you will have to have a coup "leader" that is at least somewhat popular with Nazis, to neutralise them.
Yeah, this. Nazis were just too large to go away, most of the membership would have to be accomodated to satisfactory level.
So one guy was the only person responsible for every single idea that went into that tree? Give me a break. Just because one dev claims to not have known doesn't mean all the devs didn't, and even if they didn't choose to use the idea intentionally their foreknowledge (as some devs are familiar with V+) would plant the idea of Mackensen being a relevant figure generally.
I actually believe that von Mackensen is quite obvious person for this job, so devs didn't need to be familiar with any mod to came for this conclusion.
Obvious over Beck? von Mackensen was ancient at this point, hardly the person I'd want leading a coup.