Voidborne ascension perk should add building slots to Habitation districts

[Lorenerd11]

Something that bothers me about the current Habitats is that it's really hard to develop them towards anything they don't have districts for, due to severely limited building slots. This makes Habitats dedicated to hydroponics, administration, or refineries really painful to set up.

I know that Habitats are supposed to feel a bit cramped, so I get why Habitat districts don't provide building slots by default. But I think that should change somewhat with the Voidborne ascension perk.

I think the Voidborne ascension perk should be buffed to add 1 building slot per 2 Habitation districts (+0.5).

To balance this out, the flat amount of Habitat building slots provided by Voidborne would be reduced to 1, or removed.

Honestly, Habitation districts could be buffed in general, adding 1 building slot per 3 Habitation districts (+0.34), even without Voidborne.

 

[Sutopia]

How about, no.

You can get 10 building slots (well, 9 if you’re not taking capital building into account) if you know what you’re up to, including picking specific civic and traditions. If you’re not willing to invest in them you owe to get mediocre habitats.

 

[currylambchop]

How about, no.

You can get 10 building slots (well, 9 if you’re not taking capital building into account) if you know what you’re up to, including picking specific civic and traditions. If you’re not willing to invest in them you owe to get mediocre habitats.

Functional architecture isn’t available for megacorps and hive mind

 

[Lorenerd11]

How about, no.

You can get 10 building slots (well, 9 if you’re not taking capital building into account) if you know what you’re up to, including picking specific civic and traditions. If you’re not willing to invest in them you owe to get mediocre habitats.

Having to pursue specific, barely related traditions for Habitat building slots, and pick specific civics that have nothing to do with Habitats otherwise and aren't available to all government types, when there's an entire ascension perk specifically centered on Habitats, seems like poor design.

I should be able to make viable refinery or hydroponics habitats by simply specializing that habitat towards building slots, not by having to min-max empire-wide modifiers in order to get any extra building slots at all.

Especially since I don't need all my Habitats to have 10 building slots, just the ones I want to develop for that purpose.

 

[Sutopia]

I should be able to make viable refinery or hydroponics habitats by simply specializing that habitat towards building slots, not by having to min-max empire-wide modifiers in order to get any extra building slots at all.

I should also be able to make any planet a farming world by... oh I guess you need to get locked into angler civic to do that if not a hive.

Habitats are spammable and it would seem like a poor design if you can easily specialize them to fit any of your needs without needing significant investments.

“Habitat planning is too hard plz buff”

 

[Lorenerd11]

I should also be able to make any planet a farming world by... oh I guess you need to get locked into angler civic to do that if not a hive.

Habitats are spammable and it would seem like a poor design if you can easily specialize them to fit any of your needs without needing significant investments.

Getting a total of 4 building slots from a total of 8 Habitation districts (meaning no Trade, Research, Mining, or Reactor districts whatsoever) with an Ascension perk is not remotely comparable to uncapped resource districts lmao.

And the fact is, you get uncapped agricultural districts from a single civic, not a combination of a civic and two different tradition trees, all for a measly 3 building slots.

The Ascension perk should be enough to be able to develop some habitats specifically for refineries, hydroponics, or administration.

 

[HFY]

Having to pursue specific, barely related traditions for Habitat building slots, and pick specific civics that have nothing to do with Habitats otherwise and aren't available to all government types, when there's an entire ascension perk specifically centered on Habitats, seems like poor design.

I should be able to make viable refinery or hydroponics habitats by simply specializing that habitat towards building slots, not by having to min-max empire-wide modifiers in order to get any extra building slots at all.

What about making those things available without building slots?

Refinery District (3 housing + 3 jobs, 1 translucer + 1 gas refiner + 1 chemist, available after an expensive Decision, requires a mid-game tech which unlocks after you have all 3 refinery techs)

Hydroponics District (3 housing + 3 farmer jobs, replaces Trade District if you build around a Frozen planet)

 

[Lorenerd11]

What about making those things available without building slots?

Refinery District (3 housing + 3 jobs, 1 translucer + 1 gas refiner + 1 chemist, available after an expensive Decision, requires a mid-game tech which unlocks after you have all 3 refinery techs)

Hydroponics District (3 housing + 3 farmer jobs, replaces Trade District if you build around a Frozen planet)

Not viable with the current district limit of 5, and devs have shown to be averse to the idea of adding new district types, or swapping districts with decisions.

 

[HFY]

Not viable with the current district limit of 5, and devs have shown to be averse to the idea of adding new district types, or swapping districts with decisions.

I think they could be viable in the current system.

- Decision is only available if there are NOT 5 district types on a colony already.

- Replacing one district type with another is something Habitats do already.

 

[Sutopia]

Getting a total of 8, or if we go for the weaker version, 4 building slots from a total of 8 Habitation districts (meaning no Trade, Research, Mining, or Reactor districts whatsoever) with an Ascension perk is not remotely comparable to uncapped resource districts lmao.

And the fact is, you get uncapped agricultural districts from a single civic, not a combination of a civic and two different tradition trees, all for a measly 3 building slots.

The Ascension perk should be enough to be able to develop some habitats specifically for refineries, hydroponics, or administration.

You however get virtually uncapped amount of habitats so if one is insufficient just build another. You don’t need to work with max sized habitats since all building slots are available right out of the box. If one is insufficient just build another, duh.
In a single sector you can literally populate dozens of habitats I don’t believe you won’t have enough building slots by then.

 

[Lorenerd11]

You however get virtually uncapped amount of habitats so if one is insufficient just build another.

Okay? I still don't see why getting 2 building slots (or 3 with Voidborne) from 6 Habitation districts is such an objectionable idea to you.

I don't think I should need to spend 150 influence and 1500 alloys just so that I can build 2 more refinery buildings.

In a single sector you can literally populate dozens of habitats I don’t believe you won’t have enough building slots by then.

But I don't want dozens of micro-intensive habitats, I want a handful of specialized refinery, hydroponic, or administrative habitats.

 

[Sutopia]

Okay? I still don't see why getting 2 building slots (or 6 or 3 with Voidborne) from 6 Habitation districts is such an objectionable idea to you.

I don't think I should need to spend 150 influence and 1500 alloys just so that I can build 2 more refinery buildings.


But I don't want dozens of micro-intensive Habitats, I want a handful of specialized refinery, hydroponic, or administrative habitats.

Because it’s already OP and you’re proposing to get it banned in mp?

 

[Lidhuin]

Something that bothers me about the current Habitats is that it's really hard to develop them towards anything they don't have districts for, due to severely limited building slots. This makes Habitats dedicated to hydroponics, administration, or refineries really painful to set up.

You can easily get at least 15 farmer jobs if I'm not mistaken, even if you're not Void Dweller. You can get more if you are Void Dweller (22 probably).

I don't see the problem?

It's not even micro-intensive. You build the habitat, build all the hydroponics and districts you want and then you forget it about for the rest of eternity. That's minimal micro.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

What about making those things available without building slots?

Refinery District (3 housing + 3 jobs, 1 translucer + 1 gas refiner + 1 chemist, available after an expensive Decision, requires a mid-game tech which unlocks after you have all 3 refinery techs)

Hydroponics District (3 housing + 3 farmer jobs, replaces Trade District if you build around a Frozen planet)

Basically this. I've advocated for district type swaps elsewhere, and think they particularly make sense in cases where the building isn't upgradeable.

Also alternatively or in combination, decisions that create a deposit that adds jobs and reduces max districts are a good way to add alternate district types while sidestepping the UI and max district type restrictions.

• Administrative options
  • Replace leisure districts with administrative districts. You'll rarely want to build more than one leisure district, so entertainers can be handled by holo-theatres. One building slot in exchange for an entire new district type is usually a favorable trade, except for refinery or fortress stations. Maybe add a decision to let you switch between one or the other?
  • Habitable planets can't grant a 5th district type since they don't get deposits for orbital stations, so have them add administrative districts as a 5th type instead.
• Refinery options:
  • Decisions that reduce your max district count and add a specific refinery job, via deposits that function as pseudo-districts, is my prefered solution here. That's a bit more controllable than swapping industrial districts for one that produce one of each refiner job, and is also accessible to planets that aren't expected to add three jobs per district.
  • Special refinery stations that you can build around moons, which add refinery jobs to the habitat orbiting the associated planet. Could also be done with all system moons, not just ones around the same planet, as long as you also add a one-per-system modifier that tells the jobs which habitat to go to.
• Hydroponics: part of the concept for void dwellers is that they're supposed to struggle with food a bit more than other empires, so I'm not sure giving them easy access to farmer districts is desirable.
  • Making them an automatic 5th district or trade district swap around frozen planets like HFY suggests is one option.
  • Orbital deposits that produce food and enable hydroponics districts are possible (or even just enable the districts without providing food from mining stations), but you'd also need to add more anomalies to create them and they'd be a bit random.
  • You could add a decision that causes some clerk jobs from trade districts to be replaced by farmers (or some technicians from reactor districts for gestalts).
  • Or a similar decision that reduces housing from habitation districts but adds farmer jobs.

 

[HFY]

Hydroponics: part of the concept for void dwellers is that they're supposed to struggle with food a bit more than other empires, so I'm not sure giving them easy access to farmer districts is desirable.

I mean right now you want planet-proles for that, and for your Relic & Ecu worlds.

It's not that much of a struggle unless you're some kind of genocidal -- even a garden-variety Xenophobe can enjoy some Rural planets full of slaves -- so it's only a mechanical struggle if you are going heavy into RP, and I hate when mechanics punish RP.

 

[Lorenerd11]

You can easily get at least 15 farmer jobs if I'm not mistaken, even if you're not Void Dweller.

Uh, not really? As a non-Void Dweller without Functional Architecture, you won't really get many more than 4 building slots.

And each Hydroponics building produces 2 Farmer jobs, meaning you'll struggle to get more than 8 Farmer jobs.

 

[Ryika]

I think 0.5 Building Slots per Housing District is quite fair. There's always a danger of killing the flavor of a particular thing by easing up on its restrictions too much, but I think 2 Districts for one building slot is quite a steep price to pay for the ability to specialize a bit harder. So I don't think it's too much of a problem in this case.

1 Building Slot per Housing District seems too much though, at that point, the restriction is just gone completely.

 

[Lorenerd11]

Refinery District (3 housing + 3 jobs, 1 translucer + 1 gas refiner + 1 chemist, available after an expensive Decision, requires a mid-game tech which unlocks after you have all 3 refinery techs)

Refinery options:

• Decisions that reduce your max district count and add a specific refinery job, via deposits that function as pseudo-districts, is my prefered solution here. That's a bit more controllable than swapping industrial districts for one that produce one of each refiner job, and is also accessible to planets that aren't expected to add three jobs per district.
• Special refinery stations that you can build around moons, which add refinery jobs to the habitat orbiting the associated planet. Could also be done with all system moons, not just ones around the same planet, as long as you also add a one-per-system modifier that tells the jobs which habitat to go to.

Okay, I'm not too sure about this, or whether refinery jobs should ever be provided by districts.

You usually need different amounts of different strategic resources, so I'm not sure if getting a single job of each works.

Not to mention that these districts would provide three times as many jobs as each individual refinery building 8 strategic jobs of each type (24 jobs total) with maxed-out districts is waaay too OP.

 

[Lorenerd11]

I think 0.5 Building Slots per Housing District is quite fair. There's always a danger of killing the flavor of a particular thing by easing up on its restrictions too much, but I think 2 Districts for one building slot is quite a steep price to pay for the ability to specialize a bit harder. So I don't think it's too much of a problem in this case.

1 Building Slot per Housing District seems too much though, at that point, the restriction is just gone completely.

Take into account that both 0.5 and 1 building slot per destrict are suggestions for the Voidborne ascension perk, which is supposed to make Habitats more powerful.

Without Voidborne, my suggestion was 0.34, meaning 1 building slot per 3 Habitation districts.

 

[Lorenerd11]

Because it’s already OP and you’re proposing to get it banned in mp?

How the hell is being able to get 4 or 5 building slots with Voidborne instead of 2, at the cost of maxing out Habitation districts on the Habitat (meaning building no other districts on it at all) going to get it banned in MP?

Seriously, what? This is nothing that can't be achieved by colonizing an otherwise ignored size 10 planet and building 4 city districts. What I'm proposing is hardly OP at all.