Sir, you are no member of the War Room so I will not tell you or anyone else outside the Chieffs of Staff and the President, what my plan is.
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If you want my opinion, and I know most of you don't
, we should wait till De Vlaminck comes home...(haven't seen him yet, might be the biggest waste of ESRP funds yet) and find out from him what the situation is. He might, just might, have a handle on what's going on and whose side everybody's on.
I know we have a difference of opinion on just about everything, but trying to deal with the escalation of violence all over Eutopia is something that I pledge to support wholeheartedly.
Josephus I
, we should wait till De Vlaminck comes home...(haven't seen him yet, might be the biggest waste of ESRP funds yet) and find out from him what the situation is. He might, just might, have a handle on what's going on and whose side everybody's on.I know we have a difference of opinion on just about everything, but trying to deal with the escalation of violence all over Eutopia is something that I pledge to support wholeheartedly.
Josephus I
The president asked for the opinons of "the People". This is not a top secret disscusion among the military or other members of the establishment.
And i was simply pointing out the dangers of troops being sent into this sort of environment. As a demcracy u can't just declare martial law and use troops to smash resistance. that may be okay for communist China but the people of Eutopia will not accept that. therefore you risk getting draged into a no win situation.
The British found that harsh measures drew a massive backlash from public opinion and international protest. But by sending in troops u have pushed the situation so far that going back is no longer an option. It would be unacceptable for the Military to be seen to be driven out. That would make it appear weak and powerless and that can't be allowed.
Remember civillians will always have final say over operations and many of these civillians need re-elected, so will not like the idea of dead soldiers or civillians. but when things go wrong, who will get the blame. soldiers.
Try negotiating first. putting 30000 troops on exercise in the region and sailing a few warships of the coast at the same time might make them more willing to accept the states authourity.
And i was simply pointing out the dangers of troops being sent into this sort of environment. As a demcracy u can't just declare martial law and use troops to smash resistance. that may be okay for communist China but the people of Eutopia will not accept that. therefore you risk getting draged into a no win situation.
The British found that harsh measures drew a massive backlash from public opinion and international protest. But by sending in troops u have pushed the situation so far that going back is no longer an option. It would be unacceptable for the Military to be seen to be driven out. That would make it appear weak and powerless and that can't be allowed.
Remember civillians will always have final say over operations and many of these civillians need re-elected, so will not like the idea of dead soldiers or civillians. but when things go wrong, who will get the blame. soldiers.
Try negotiating first. putting 30000 troops on exercise in the region and sailing a few warships of the coast at the same time might make them more willing to accept the states authourity.
We tried to negotiate, it failed.
What I want is to seal off Farpoint, totally, from the sea and from the land. Then wait, wait a week untill the rebells give themselves up.
What I want is to seal off Farpoint, totally, from the sea and from the land. Then wait, wait a week untill the rebells give themselves up.
What rebels? You keep talking about these so called rebels, yet has anyone ever seen one? Who exactly do you want to "give up" and what do you want them to "give up doing"?
EDIT: You need to be more clear at a time like this, otherwise how can we interpret this as anything but military posturing looking for any exscuse to utilize itself?
EDIT: You need to be more clear at a time like this, otherwise how can we interpret this as anything but military posturing looking for any exscuse to utilize itself?
I want them to give up their guns, I want them to give up their militia, I want them to give up their blockade of Farpoint Base. I want their Topa Council to be disbanded.
~MILE asked them, and they did give up their weapons.
~Farpoint Council did indeed agree that they could negotiate with the Americans following the Merc incident.
You CANNOT be serious about asking for the end of the Topa Council, what possible reason could you have, its annual tradition is over 100 years old! What purpose would that serve and how is it related, why not demand an end to the EUtopian Indian Association, or the Royalist Society while your at it, or do you no longer believe the people have the right to assemble, or join private organizations. This is complete madness. I hope you don't think any of the minorities on this island will standby and allow this to happen.
Good day sir.
*exits out the door to go write a letter to his local parliment member
*
Ahem yes, sure the Topas gave up all their weapons hehehe amusing. They gave up their assault weapons maybe.
The Topa council called directly or inderectly for a rebellion. Maybe the ouncil shouldn't be disbanded but it's members arrested.
The Topa council called directly or inderectly for a rebellion. Maybe the ouncil shouldn't be disbanded but it's members arrested.
As long as we're publically voicing opinions, here's mine.
Military intervention in the WET is unneccessary, uncalled for, and a colossal mistake. These people simply seem to want equal rights to other provinces of Eutopia. They have turned over their weapons and are agreeing to negotiate with the American base, so those are the two big stumbling blocks to solving the situation taken care of. The reason for the initial disorder was the base and the Hanson situation. If the people of Farpoint have finally come to the realization that their economy depends mightily on that base's presence, then they are coming back around to the point where a reasonable conclusion can be had.
The military seems to be eager to go in shooting, but why, at who, and to what end? Until the entire Hartwell fiasco is solved I will have no faith in our armed forces. I think many other Eutopians share my opinion. And this "military tribunal" will be very closely watched. The questions remain, however: why shoot the people of the WET? Because of their checkpoints? Because of their seizure of some small levels of autonomy that we give to other provinces freely? Or because we can?
Second question: who will you shoot at? Anyone with a gun? There are a lot of police in the area from other parts of the country. This is not a military action where everyone is divided into nice neat teams. This is a situation rife with civilians, like North Ireland or Vietnam, where you have no idea who the so-called "enemy" is.
Third: what will armed intervention accomplish? Well, it will embitter the people of the WET far more against the federal government. It will breed resentment, hate, and further violence for years to come. If the people of Farpoint are willing to work this issue out with the US Naval Base, fantastic.
But I think it may be a bit hypocritical to attack people who members of our own armed forces illegally supplied with weapons in the first place...
Military intervention in the WET is unneccessary, uncalled for, and a colossal mistake. These people simply seem to want equal rights to other provinces of Eutopia. They have turned over their weapons and are agreeing to negotiate with the American base, so those are the two big stumbling blocks to solving the situation taken care of. The reason for the initial disorder was the base and the Hanson situation. If the people of Farpoint have finally come to the realization that their economy depends mightily on that base's presence, then they are coming back around to the point where a reasonable conclusion can be had.
The military seems to be eager to go in shooting, but why, at who, and to what end? Until the entire Hartwell fiasco is solved I will have no faith in our armed forces. I think many other Eutopians share my opinion. And this "military tribunal" will be very closely watched. The questions remain, however: why shoot the people of the WET? Because of their checkpoints? Because of their seizure of some small levels of autonomy that we give to other provinces freely? Or because we can?
Second question: who will you shoot at? Anyone with a gun? There are a lot of police in the area from other parts of the country. This is not a military action where everyone is divided into nice neat teams. This is a situation rife with civilians, like North Ireland or Vietnam, where you have no idea who the so-called "enemy" is.
Third: what will armed intervention accomplish? Well, it will embitter the people of the WET far more against the federal government. It will breed resentment, hate, and further violence for years to come. If the people of Farpoint are willing to work this issue out with the US Naval Base, fantastic.
But I think it may be a bit hypocritical to attack people who members of our own armed forces illegally supplied with weapons in the first place...
It is quite clear that the problems in WET can not me solved with marshall all. It is imperative that we quickly enter into negotiations with the Town Council and a observer of parliment which will hopefully decide on a solution to the problem. But by declaring marshal law the president will only be calling out the militias to defend their land, much like a bull in school who wishes to take your seat. But I do think that the military should be kept in reserve should talks break down.We can not have bloodshed between EUtopians. I know that EUtopians wont accept it, the parties wont accept it, and parliment wont accept it.
Adam Fowller
Adam Fowller
I think the use of force recommended by some of our esteemed leaders to crush the putative rebellion in the WET is the best course of action. Provided you wish to provoke a full-blown civil war, of course. Otherwise, it may not be such a hot idea.
Now, as someone who'd like to prevent civil war and preserve Eutopian unity rather than destroy it, I'd suggest that the government
(a) continue talks with Farpoint's mayor and city council, specifically with regards to removing all checkpoints;
(b) call a conference in Eutopia City with civic and political leaders of the WET to address concerns these leaders may have about the WET's place in our nation;
(c) prepare legislation to change the WET's status to that of an Autonomous Province.
I'd also suggest that some of our military and political leaders who presumably consider themselves patriots act like it for once and do what's best for our country instead of fanning the flames of hysteria. And that means dispensing with outlandish military scenarios. If those leaders wish to advocate *constructive* actions involving the military, maybe they should focus on efforts to investigate the role fringe elements within the forces played in any and all acts directed against the sovereignty of the Eutopian state.
-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd
Now, as someone who'd like to prevent civil war and preserve Eutopian unity rather than destroy it, I'd suggest that the government
(a) continue talks with Farpoint's mayor and city council, specifically with regards to removing all checkpoints;
(b) call a conference in Eutopia City with civic and political leaders of the WET to address concerns these leaders may have about the WET's place in our nation;
(c) prepare legislation to change the WET's status to that of an Autonomous Province.
I'd also suggest that some of our military and political leaders who presumably consider themselves patriots act like it for once and do what's best for our country instead of fanning the flames of hysteria. And that means dispensing with outlandish military scenarios. If those leaders wish to advocate *constructive* actions involving the military, maybe they should focus on efforts to investigate the role fringe elements within the forces played in any and all acts directed against the sovereignty of the Eutopian state.
-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd
*sigh*
Fase 1 would be and I say this again, a blockade of Farpoint, I'm 75% sure that after a week, or after two weeks they surrender. After that we'll to house to house searches, looking for guns.
Fase 1 would be and I say this again, a blockade of Farpoint, I'm 75% sure that after a week, or after two weeks they surrender. After that we'll to house to house searches, looking for guns.
"Surrender"? Stop imagining a rebellion where there is none. If you're so eager to blockade somebody, how about the grocer at 35 Thomas More Avenue? I'm 75% certain he'd surrender within a day, and you might get some carrots in the deal.
-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd
-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd
Again with the constructive suggestions. Are you *trying* to provoke a rebellion in Farpoint? How about we continue talks with local leaders instead, and take down the wall once we've reached an understanding.
-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd
-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd
It is hard to imagine that some citizens are so eager to kill other citizens. But it seems that the military is asking t do just that. If we aggrevate the situation then we will only be generating years of terrorism and civil strife, much like those in Ireland.
another problem with militarily dealing with the problem at far point is that it will only inflame things with the US and Europe. We want then to normalise relations with us, sending in troops will probably have that dumb-ass senator calling for UN sanctions against us, or a bombing campaign.
Gee, with rioting quickly becoming the national Eutopian past time I sure expected to see some of these mobs of politically sensitive citizens who take the street every week over some random cause to show up and participate.
The president has specifically inquired about the situation in the WET but there are other issues, based on the discarded placards that litter our streets that must be of some concern.
Is this it, as far as public opinion? Nothing else people want to say? No warring factions that want to defend or oppose any recent actions?
Sheesh, I guess there must be something good on TV?
Jack Teano
The president has specifically inquired about the situation in the WET but there are other issues, based on the discarded placards that litter our streets that must be of some concern.
Is this it, as far as public opinion? Nothing else people want to say? No warring factions that want to defend or oppose any recent actions?
Sheesh, I guess there must be something good on TV?
Jack Teano