"Visible" AI types

[danest]

From watching the Blorg make friends, I noticed that it looks like aliens are listed with their Ai, such as "Ruthless capitalist." Would it be wiser to not include, openly and visibly, the various species AI type from the moment of first communication? Sure, I suppose, some aliens would immediately make obvious their personality, but... maybe we should have to guess by their behavior? Maybe it shouldn't be immediately revealed? I feel like I'd have special knowledge right from the start as to how trustworthy they might be -- but then having not played, I can't be sure.

 

[lemmox]

From watching the Blorg make friends, I noticed that it looks like aliens are listed with their Ai, such as "Ruthless capitalist." Would it be wiser to not include, openly and visibly, the various species AI type from the moment of first communication? Sure, I suppose, some aliens would immediately make obvious their personality, but... maybe we should have to guess by their behavior? Maybe it shouldn't be immediately revealed? I feel like I'd have special knowledge right from the start as to how trustworthy they might be -- but then having not played, I can't be sure.

The reason they instituted the AI personality system was to give the player some indication of the sort of empire they're dealing with. As they said, when playing EU IV, you generally have some historical context for what "France" is, what their goals and methods are likely to be. That doesn't exist in Stellaris.

It'd be just as easy to say that technically you shouldn't be able to see their traits and ethos immediately, but all of those things would become abundantly clear after relatively little diplomatic interaction. It isn't directly modelled in the game, but remember that during the first encounter between two FTL empires there would be an army of diplomats, spies, analysts, and scientists on both sides working around the clock to build up a fundamental knowledge of the other party as quickly as possible.

 

[KonradKurze202]

From watching the Blorg make friends, I noticed that it looks like aliens are listed with their Ai, such as "Ruthless capitalist." Would it be wiser to not include, openly and visibly, the various species AI type from the moment of first communication? Sure, I suppose, some aliens would immediately make obvious their personality, but... maybe we should have to guess by their behavior? Maybe it shouldn't be immediately revealed? I feel like I'd have special knowledge right from the start as to how trustworthy they might be -- but then having not played, I can't be sure.

As part of the eventual espionage DLC this would make sense, however now the lack of any kind of other espionage factors would make this a bit meaningless. There was another thread a bit ago asking about map revealing for newly discovered empires, and maybe their borders should remain hidden until discovered, which I feel falls under the same category as this.

 

[Solx001]

Here's an idea for when they expand espionage/diplomacy; when you make contact with a new alien, their AI type is hidden, and you can discover more about them through spying on them if they're uncooperative. I doubt every alien race out there is happy to share every aspect of their culture with strangers, especially xenophobes. Alternatively, if they are cooperative, you could engage in a cultural exchange through diplomacy. Failing that, maybe you'd have to do more research on them after contact, but that just seems kind of redundant. None the less, this seems like an interesting idea for later dlc, could make the aliens you encounter a little more mysterious.

 

[danest]

Here's an idea for when they expand espionage/diplomacy; when you make contact with a new alien, their AI type is hidden, and you can discover more about them through spying on them if they're uncooperative. I doubt every alien race out there is happy to share every aspect of their culture with strangers, especially xenophobes. Alternatively, if they are cooperative, you could engage in a cultural exchange through diplomacy. Failing that, maybe you'd have to do more research on them after contact, but that just seems kind of redundant. None the less, this seems like an interesting idea for later dlc, could make the aliens you encounter a little more mysterious.

That makes sense, but we'll probably have to wait for espionage options. Or maybe it could be done with further research of the aliens, or through the embassy, etc.

 

[IronFish]

Here's an idea for when they expand espionage/diplomacy; when you make contact with a new alien, their AI type is hidden, and you can discover more about them through spying on them if they're uncooperative. I doubt every alien race out there is happy to share every aspect of their culture with strangers, especially xenophobes. Alternatively, if they are cooperative, you could engage in a cultural exchange through diplomacy. Failing that, maybe you'd have to do more research on them after contact, but that just seems kind of redundant. None the less, this seems like an interesting idea for later dlc, could make the aliens you encounter a little more mysterious.

Or maybe it could be a science project - send your xenosociologists to study the alien culture and understand them better.

Actually, maybe the game could also keep the Ethos hidden, and your xenosociologists would reveal that as well after living among the aliens.

On the other hand, I don't know how much fun it would be from a player perspective, to have to run all these projects in addition to the first contact ones (especially if you have to run them for civilizations for which you gained contact "freely" via a third party. )

 

[grandad1982]

In not a fan of hiding that sort of info from the player. I do understand your point and even slightly agree but that is outweighed by knowing how annoying it is to have diplomatic info like this hidden.

 

[Thure]

Why should we need espionage? I mean... it's pretty obvious for us to tell what the AI characteristics of France, Russia and the USA might be This is nothing we need espionage for...

 

[Kyosfonica]

This information could be hidden in a manegable size like 7-8 civs but this game allows you to have more than 32 so this is, for me, just boring and time wasting. We will have to do the same for all species we found to know the AI we are dealing with? I like the way it is right know because we do not have any other to know that in the game. Maybe in a future DLC this changes but PDX will introduce a mechanic to deal with a high amount of species and make it fun.

 

[danest]

We know what France is, have embassies, can visit it freely, examine its history. It's not a brand new encounter, a nearly blank slate in terms of relations and knowledge. Huge difference. If a mysterious ship shows up in front of Earth, there's no way we're going to know whether or not they can be trusted until they act or tell us, even if we could translate their language. It's just not possible beyond a guess, certainly not to the high degree offered in the game.
I'm trying to jog my memory for specific game examples, but I think there's quite a few 4x or civ-esque, etc games where we can't necessarily view the AI settings. I like having to learn whether or not a group can be trusted rather than being told instantly by strange knowledge. For instance, we're instantly told in the case of a hive mind, that it will attack when it's closed in. I'd rather learn that, rather than knowing from day one that they can't be trusted.
but it's a nitpick, and I'll live.

 

[eddyill]

Or maybe it could be a science project - send your xenosociologists to study the alien culture and understand them better.

This is all best represented by the establish communications research project that already exists.

 

[Wizzington]

It needs to be visible immediately for the player to get a 'feel' for the empires they encounter. Hiding it behind anything is not a good idea.

 

[safe-keeper]

It's visible in EU4, which I appreciate, and I feel it should be in Stellaris, too. The traits in EU4 are Administrator, Balanced, Colonialist, Diplomat, and Militaristic. This, as well as their attitude to you (threatened, defensive ally, outraged, friendly, etc.) gives you a clue as to what their actions are going to be, and how to approach them.

 

[Tim_Ward]

Hiding information from the player is rarely a good thing.

 

[Nikolai]

It would be a very, very bad idea to hide it...

 

[kulw]

i like the overall idea of hiding the ethos and AI, but i fear everyone would allways call it "bad AI" or "stupid AI" because you would just not understand why they are doing the things their way - if you think about star trek and for examble the ferengi next to the vulkans while having no direct feedback the whole game would be guessing all the time. That maybe fun the first and second time, but as we saw in the streams to the midgame you make contact faster to the other empires and then it would likely just be annoying.

For the espionage part: That would make sense if the whole concept of information gets a rework. For example, if you could not see the whole new AI-empire at the time when you encounter it first, but would have to find their planets and systems, get their strength, ... Then the hiding and discovering of the ethos thing would make more sense because you expand your knowledge not so fast. Combined with bonuses, if you get to know them through another empire etc.

 

[BrokenSky]

It needs to be visible immediately for the player to get a 'feel' for the empires they encounter. Hiding it behind anything is not a good idea.

What about in hard mode?

 

[ashbery76]

When you think of 4x games they tend to have a backstory to give the player an idea of personality and culture.Stellaris does not have that so some sort of the personality trait is required.

 

[aitaituo]

 

[Ifreann]

Make contact with adorable space foxes.
"Stay the hell away from us, godless alien"
Hmm, I shall have to study their society carefully to determine their dominant ethics.