VIP - South America

[pimparel]

Re: Default leaders

Originally posted by Scythe
Same thing, now for the leaders:

---------
Uruguay:

Generals:
Garibaldi #Giuseppe

---------

Garibaldi, should be a General of the new Rio-Grandense Republic, waking up with an event, as well as Bento Garcia.

 

[arcorelli]

Re: Default leaders

Originally posted by Scythe
Chile

Admirals:
Rebolledo #Juan Williams
Riveros #Galvarino

A minor thing: Riveros should be replaced with Latorre #Juan José
Although Riveros commanded in name the navy, Latorre was the guy that really won the battles (There is a reason why the only Chilean battleship was called Latorre).

 

[unmerged(13520)]

Re: Re: Default leaders

Originally posted by arcorelli
A minor thing: Riveros should be replaced with Latorre #Juan José
Although Riveros commanded in name the navy, Latorre was the guy that really won the battles (There is a reason why the only Chilean battleship was called Latorre).

Okay, but what leadertraits should he have?

The ones for Riveros were:

background = drillmaster
personality = ballsy

 

[arcorelli]

Re: Re: Re: Default leaders

Originally posted by Scythe
Okay, but what leadertraits should he have?

The ones for Riveros were:

background = drillmaster
personality = ballsy

Actually, those leadertraits are quite adequate for Latorre And certainly, they are better descriptions of him that for Riveros.

 

[pimparel]

Scythe, the first post is yours. However who is in charge? I got some events already coded, only need some province ID's and some needs translation.

So I post it here, I send to someone?

BTW I need help with event prior the PW (paraguay war), to create a event which will trigger if a flag_PW reaches a certain number, to create conditions to avoid the PW.

 

[unmerged(13520)]

Originally posted by pimparel
Scythe, the first post is yours. However who is in charge? I got some events already coded, only need some province ID's and some needs translation. So I post it here, I send to someone?

That's a very good question.

The problem is that the whole of VIP itself doesn't yet have what we could call a truly fixed "organization"...outside of Guinnessmonkey, who's more or less the "Chief" of the whole VIP, but he's not in charge of "day to day" stuff (ie: like assigning IDs, etc.), since he's rather busy.

So, this is certainly not clear....but that hasn't stopped everyone else from working in the meanwhile.

For the moment, I'd consider myself a de facto "general coordinator" of VIP South America, but no further than that. In any case, all important decisions should be taken by concensus. (Btw, I'm scripting some events too, just that I'm lacking a few descriptions at the moment, which I have to research)

IMHO, I'd argue that once you've translated and finished those events (they are the ones in the Clã thread, I suppose?), they could be posted here in this thread in a message or two (which can be edited if necessary), so that they can be easily collected (and given specific IDs) once there's some more overall VIP organization in place.

BTW I need help with event prior the PW (paraguay war), to create a event which will trigger if a flag_PW reaches a certain number, to create conditions to avoid the PW.

I (or someone else, of course) could try to help you with that event, if you post it here...

EDIT:

Well, I've gone and checked my Victoria copy, and apparently the "free" Brazilian ids should be 16303-16399 (16300-16302 are already filled).

I suppose that, in theory, those could be used for the Brazilian events that are being scripted.

 

[pimparel]

Portuguese Slaves

I just received my copy and I couldn't fail to notice that the brazilian slaves were of portuguese nationality, which doesn't make any sense, cause they wouldn't put their own people under slavery.

So I changed all portuguese;catholic;slaves to african_minor;pagan;slaves and created 2 new files. as below.

THis is for Grand Campaign

BTW the slavery was abolished in 1888, and in the 1914 scenario there is slaves in Brazil (We weren't that evil!).

#brazil_african_minor1.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2130;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;14
2136;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;12
2140;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;10
2145;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;11
2146;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;37
2147;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;11
2438;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;45
2455;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;13
2457;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;9
2460;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;10
2462;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;63
2464;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;21
2466;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;10
2475;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;9

#brazil_african_minor2.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2108;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;2
2129;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;8
2132;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;4
2135;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;2
2137;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;8
2138;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;7
2139;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;2
2443;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;3
2444;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;3
2445;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;3
2446;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;3
2447;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;3
2448;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;7
2449;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;5
2452;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;2
2454;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;1
2458;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;6
2459;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;1
2461;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;7
2463;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;2
2465;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;2
2467;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;6
2468;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;6
2469;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;6
2663;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;3
2664;African_Minor;Pagan;slaves;;;;5

#brazil_amazonian1.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2095;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2100;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2104;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2105;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2108;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2111;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2112;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2118;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2119;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2120;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2121;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2125;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2126;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2127;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2129;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2131;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2133;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2382;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2383;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2408;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2423;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2435;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2437;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2441;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2442;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2443;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2470;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2078;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1

#brazil_amazonian2.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2076;Amazonian;Pagan;soldiers;;;;1
2076;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2076;Amazonian;Pagan;labourers;;;;1
2077;Amazonian;Pagan;soldiers;;;;1
2077;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2077;Amazonian;Pagan;labourers;;;;1
2078;Amazonian;Pagan;soldiers;;;;2
2078;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;4
2078;Amazonian;Pagan;labourers;;;;2
2106;Amazonian;Pagan;soldiers;;;;1
2106;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2106;Amazonian;Pagan;labourers;;;;1
2107;Amazonian;Pagan;soldiers;;;;1
2107;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2107;Amazonian;Pagan;labourers;;;;1
2110;Amazonian;Pagan;soldiers;;;;1
2110;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;2
2110;Amazonian;Pagan;labourers;;;;1
2078;Amazonian;Pagan;farmers;;;;1

#brazil_guarani.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2405;Guarani;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2431;Guarani;Pagan;farmers;;;;6
2434;Guarani;Pagan;farmers;;;;6
2655;Guarani;Pagan;farmers;;;;1
2431;Guarani;Pagan;farmers;;;;12

#brazil_portuguese1.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2078;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2095;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2100;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2106;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2107;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2110;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2112;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2118;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2119;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2120;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2121;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2125;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2126;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2127;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2131;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2133;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2134;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2405;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2408;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2423;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2431;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2433;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2434;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2435;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2437;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;5
2441;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2442;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;5
2450;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2451;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2453;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2456;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;5
2470;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2616;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2655;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3

#brazil_portuguese2.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2078;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2095;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2100;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2106;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2107;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2110;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2112;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2118;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2119;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2120;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2121;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2125;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2126;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2127;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2131;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2133;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2134;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2405;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2408;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2423;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2431;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2433;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2434;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2435;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2437;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;5
2441;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2442;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;5
2450;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2451;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2453;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;1
2456;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;5
2470;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3
2616;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2655;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;2
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;3

#brazil_portuguese3.csv
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousne

ss;Militancy;Size
2130;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2130;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;18
2130;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;3
2136;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2136;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;16
2136;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;3
2140;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2140;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;13
2140;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;2
2145;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2145;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;15
2145;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;2
2146;Portuguese;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;2
2146;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;7
2146;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;48
2146;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;9
2147;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2147;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;14
2147;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;2
2438;Portuguese;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;2
2438;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;8
2438;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;59
2438;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;11
2455;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2455;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;18
2455;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;3
2457;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;1
2457;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;12
2457;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;2
2460;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2460;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;13
2460;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;2
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;aristocrats;;;;28
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;officers;;;;28
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;clergymen;;;;28
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;capitalists;;;;28
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;4
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;12
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;83
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;16
2464;Portuguese;Catholic;craftsmen;;;;1
2464;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;4
2464;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;28
2464;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;5
2466;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;2
2466;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;13
2466;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;2
2475;Portuguese;Catholic;soldiers;;;;1
2475;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;12
2475;Portuguese;Catholic;labourers;;;;2
2462;Portuguese;Catholic;farmers;;;;41

The right way to represent slaves would be to create of others african culture, and some might be muslin or even catholic. But to make it simple a just made tthose changes.

 

[pimparel]

I just posted this thread Portuguese Slaves showing a way to fix the portuguese slaves to african_minor slaves.

As I previously mentioned we should have a TAG Uxx = RRG (Rio-Grandense Republic). The ones that look into the brazilian clan thread should see the events that I made to their creation, however they are still in portuguese.

The revolt.txt should include this to create this country:

#RRG
Uxx = {
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1835 }
expirydate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1870 }
minimum = { 2405 2449 2450 2616 2655 2663 2664 }
extra = { }
capital = 2664
culture = {
type = portuguese
type = guarani
type = african_minor
}
religion = catholic
literacy = -1
ai = "default.ai"
}

The flag shoulb be this:

 

[Grosshaus]

This has been brought up before and has been declared WAD by Paradox.

If you want non-Portuguese slaves in Brazil, focus on VIP.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Thanks

 

[pimparel]

Originally posted by Grosshaus
This has been brought up before and has been declared WAD by Paradox.

If you want non-Portuguese slaves in Brazil, focus on VIP.

I know that I am annoying, but why in Texas we have African Slaves, and in Brazil not?

 

[Grosshaus]

Originally posted by pimparel
I know that I am annoying, but why in Texas we have African Slaves, and in Brazil not?

According to Paradox slaves in Brazil were a lot more integrated to the overall society than in North-America.

 

[MegaPIMP]

Paradox have a time machine!

"hello, i'm from sweden, 2003 and i'm wondering how you like it beeing a slave?"

"que?"

 

[pimparel]

Originally posted by Grosshaus
According to Paradox slaves in Brazil were a lot more integrated to the overall society than in North-America.

Well history disagrees with Paradox, in Victoria Timeframe, we had at least 3 big revolts, where slaves and freed-slaves were involved, they had their own religion, thet were secredated, treated as commodities.

The immigration movement had a "clearing" objetive behind the cover.

 

[Mem de Sá]

Originally posted by Grosshaus
According to Paradox slaves in Brazil were a lot more integrated to the overall society than in North-America.

Not correct at all. As said, there were a lot of revolts. Most of them small revolts wich ocurred in a plantation or other. Some of them were very big.

The "Revolta dos Malês" (the malês were muslim slaves) was one of the biggest revolts around here. It was so important, that the government prohibited the importation of slaves from the region of africa that the malês came for fear of the muslim slaves.

In general, the slaves had their own culture (someone should have heard of capoeira - a dance-fight that slaves praticted - in fact a fight dismissed as dance). Many slaves that runned away formed "Quilombos" were they lived like in Africa (some of the big quilombos had their own king and queens). Near the capital of Brazil, in the state of Tocatins, there´s still remmanints of a big quilombo like that were the descendants of those fugitives (a mix of the fugitives with some indians) still have a distint and particular culture.

Nah, the slaves were never integrated with the overall society in Brazil. After the end of slavery they went to the cities and had the biggest difficult to find jobs/education. Were completaly discriminated like in USA - only difference was that there was no laws about that discrimination.

For exemple, the first futebol (soccer) clubs didnt accept black people as players.

 

[unmerged(11822)]

It's a common misconception that slaves were more integrated into society in Latin American compared to the United States. This is usually due to the idea that black culture is much more assimilated into modern culture in the former than in the latter, which can be disputed; but it is incorrect to believe that at the time african slaves in Brazil were more Brazilian than african slaves in the United States were American. Cultural differences were just as strong, and it can be argued that the reason african culture has remained as such a strong influence on Brazilian society is because african slaves refused to be assimilated very easily. I dont want to be the one making vocal attacks, but to ignore the issue is to ignore basic history.

 

[barretta]

Re: Portuguese Slaves

Originally posted by pimparel

BTW the slavery was abolished in 1888, and in the 1914 scenario there is slaves in Brazil (We weren't that evil!).

.

The Real question (OK.. bad pun) is would slavery have been abolished in 1888 if Britain had not blockaded the shipment of slaves. Or would it have happened sooner had Britain not promoted it by being a major importer of goods from Brazil.

Is this an event handled by Vic?

Just a thought.

 

[pimparel]

Re: Re: Portuguese Slaves

Originally posted by barretta
The Real question (OK.. bad pun) is would slavery have been abolished in 1888 if Britain had not blockaded the shipment of slaves. Or would it have happened sooner had Britain not promoted it by being a major importer of goods from Brazil.

Is this an event handled by Vic?

Just a thought.

Yes, it would, maybe even sooner. Cause with the english blocade the price of a slave skyrocketed becaming the most lucrative "commoditie" around.

 

[Derek Pullem]

This is going to VIP forum as its not really a bug because the designers have chosen to make it like this deliberately. And the new POP proposal can be talked over there.

 

[Grosshaus]

IMO it's better to handle Brazilian slaves together with all the other South American issues.

Speaking of which, what's your opinion on Brazil having all Amazon states as states with statehood? I think that should be removed to prevent it from industrializing the region without effort. Would Brazil be able to grant statehood right away or are there little enough of Portuguese pops to prevent it?