VIP - Scandinavia

[tyrel68]

Thanks, but what should I do in order to change it myself?

Regards!!

Well, if you want to fix it. Do the following

1) reinstall Vanilla Vickie
2) Install VIP to a separate folder, not overwriting Vanilla Vickie
3) Go to the Separate VIP folder GFX\Map\Shields and GFX\Map\Flags
4) Delete Dan.bmp from both dir
5) Copy the VIP folder into the Vanilla Vickie Folder so that VIP is now properly setup

 

[Octavian]

Well, if you want to fix it. Do the following

1) reinstall Vanilla Vickie
2) Install VIP to a separate folder, not overwriting Vanilla Vickie
3) Go to the Separate VIP folder GFX\Map\Shields and GFX\Map\Flags
4) Delete Dan.bmp from both dir
5) Copy the VIP folder into the Vanilla Vickie Folder so that VIP is now properly setup

Thanks, but I solved it by copying the flag and shield from HOI2

Regards!!

 

[Sute]{h]

Danish East India. Just in case some here finds it interesting.

 

[Kenshin]

I've modified the POP file for Finland, to increase the population to the more historical value of 1,435,000 (it had 1,446,000 in 1840) http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/population/scandinavia.htm .

Here's the file:

Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousness;Militancy;Size

66;Russian;Orthodox;soldiers;;;;2
66;Russian;Orthodox;officers;;;;1
381;Swedish;Protestant;aristocrats;;;;2
381;Swedish;Protestant;capitalists;;;;2
381;Russian;Orthodox;officers;;;;5
381;Finnish;Protestant;soldiers;;;;10
383;Swedish;Protestant;aristocrats;;;;2
383;Swedish;Protestant;capitalists;;;;2
383;Swedish;Protestant;clergymen;;;;2
383;Finnish;Protestant;clergymen;;;;2
383;Russian;Orthodox;officers;;;;6
383;Russian;Orthodox;soldiers;;;;3
383;Finnish;Protestant;soldiers;;;;10

Russian officer POP: 12
Russian soldier POP: 5
finnish soldier POP: 20
NO swedish soldier or officer pop????
Where did you find these numbers. I find it hard to belive Finland had more russian officers than swedish and finnish officers (and more officers then soldiers at any point in history)

 

[G-Klav]

Uh...

I didn't find them anywhere, I just modified the file, ie enlarged the POP's already in the file

It was/is meant as a temporary fix until someone comes up with something better, it's at least better than vanilla

Go ahead and fix whatever you think is wrong...

 

[Ges]

Russian officer POP: 12
Russian soldier POP: 5
finnish soldier POP: 20
NO swedish soldier or officer pop????
Where did you find these numbers. I find it hard to belive Finland had more russian officers than swedish and finnish officers (and more officers then soldiers at any point in history)

My first post in Victoria forums but I just had to share my knowledge.

Finlands population in 19th century:

Swedish speaking: 300 000 in 1880s
russians: 6000 in the end 19th century - 0,2% of total pop (just civilians), there was ~10 000 soldiers in peacetime through 1809-1917 but more during wars. Crimean wars 50k and 130k WWI
sames: ~1000 in the latter part of 19th century
gipsies: 1500 latter part of 19th century
german speaking: 2000 latter part of 19th century

jews: 1000 after the 1858 russian ex-soldier pension law
orthodoxs: 25 200 in 1830

That should give some guidelines how pops should be.

everything according to Finlands history - part 5

 

[Kenshin]

But it does not state how many FINNISH people, just all the others.

I will remove all russiona officers and soldiers (or at least change to a smaller number)

 

[Ges]

But it does not state how many FINNISH people, just all the others.

I will remove all russiona officers and soldiers (or at least change to a smaller number)

The earlier estimate (1,435,000? in this thread) was fine with me. But if you want me to make estimate i will. Overall population 1,415,000.

And since you're willing to redo the whole finlands population I'll throw in my ideas.

according to län populations (per cent) of 1815 and 1855 we get

Oulu, Kajaani, Tornio 8,5% = 120 275
Vaasa 16,5% = 233 475
Kuopio 11% = 155 650
Mikkeli 8% = 113 200
Helsinki 9% = 127 350
Tampere 9% = 127 350 (If we model Tavastland län with Tampere which we should)
Viipuri, Kotka 18% = 254 700
Mariehamn, Turku 20% = 283 000 (Althought I know that population was below Viipuri & Kotka during 1830s)

Just estimates thought.

If we can model different population growths my sources give annual growth rates something like thisshould of course be per mille not per cent)
Oulu, Tornio 16%
Vasa 11%
Mikkeli 9%
Kuopio 9%
Kajaani 9%
rest 7%
This have to of course scale with rest of world.

Then to pops.
Russian civilian pops should be in Kotka,Viipuri, Helsinki,(Kuopio)
Swedish pops Mariehamn, Vaasa, Turku, Helsinki, (Oulu, Tornio)
germans (If modeled) mainly in Turku, Viipuri, (Helsinki)
Orthodoxs in Kuopio,Viipuri,Kotka

I got no idea of game balance, but this should be somekind of goal.

And since we are talking about pops...

Northern Sweden:Luleå (and Umeå). Where is 40 000 finnish people which was left on Swedish side of new border in 1809. If we scale the number we get something like 50 000+ finns. (and 62k+ if we scale with 16 per milles)

Sankt petersburgh:
Swedish parish 1807: 2,700 1897: 6,400
Finnish parish 1807 5,000 1897: 24,000
I got no idea how much there was finns/swedish in St. Petersburgh in 1836 but saying 10,000 finns can't be that much wrong.

 

[Ges]

And let's estimate some more

Finland 1836:
swedes 162,500
russians 2,800
sames 500
gipsies 800
germans 1,800
jews 300
orthodoxs 27,200
finns 1,246,300

just guesses.

 

[Generalisimo]

And let's estimate some more

Finland 1836:
swedes 162,500
russians 2,800
sames 500
gipsies 800
germans 1,800
jews 300
orthodoxs 27,200
finns 1,246,300

just guesses.

Sadly, every POP reprents 4 human beings.
The smallest unit is 1K = 1000 POPs = 4000 human beings.
So, everything below that number MUST not be included.

 

[Ges]

Sadly, every POP reprents 4 human beings.
The smallest unit is 1K = 1000 POPs = 4000 human beings.
So, everything below that number MUST not be included.

So just orthodox finns, protestant finns and protestant swedes in Finland.

Of course you could throw in 1k aristocrat russian pop in Viipuri just to model russians in Finland.

 

[G-Klav]

About the Finnish in Sweden: There would be more Finns in Luleå than in Umeå, right?

And I'm glad something's finally happened with Finland in VIP

 

[Ges]

About the Finnish in Sweden: There would be more Finns in Luleå than in Umeå, right?

And I'm glad something's finally happened with Finland in VIP

well, i don't care if finns are in Umeå or Luleå as long as they are there

but more in Luleå I think. I don't really have idea how finns were located in Sweden. All I know is that ethnic border was in Kalix river.

 

[G-Klav]

Actually the ethnic border was beyond Torneå/Tornio
But that was before the war in 1809.

The Kalix river was really just an armistice line...

 

[Panzerschreck]

correct me if iam wrong, but i made a small map covering some finno ethincs..
take a look and tell me if its right...

http://img257.echo.cx/img257/3940/finnougren4ic.jpg

 

[G-Klav]

It looks right, but what does the dots mean? If it means 'minority', those dots should probably be in Sweden too...

And I believe that there are Ugric people in the north of Norway too (they're called "Samer" in Sweden, they are the same as your 'Lappen'...

 

[G-Klav]

Sorry for double posting, but I've made corrections and new events for Sweden.

Firstly, both Kalmar and Jönköping should change vegetation to forest. These two provinces are/were heavily forested.
Secondly, Jönköping (#314) should change goods from grain to timber, as the area never (not even today) has produced very much grain. The main resource in the area was/is the forest. The value should also be increased to 60.

Thirdly, Luleå should change goods to timber, with lowered value to 50. The province will change production to iron with this event:

#########################################################
# Thomas process allows usage of the iron in Norrbotten
#########################################################

event = { 
	id = 270028
	random = no
	country = SWE
	
	picture = 533

	trigger = { 
		owned = { province = 77 data = -1 }
		invention = 533
		random = 10
	 } 

	name = "Iron mining has started in Norrbotten & Lappland"
	desc = "We have very good news for you: The new Thomas process allows us to make steel using the iron ore found in Norbotten and Lappland as a base. This ore, though found as early as 1721, has until now been totally worthless, due to the large amount of phosphorus that it contains. Since the ore fields up there are very large, I'm sure it will strengthen the Swedish economy!"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = june year = 1870 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1910 }

	action_a = {
        	name = "Let's mine!"
		command = { type = resource_type which = iron where = 77 }
		command = { type = resource_value value = 70 where = 77 }
		command = { type = life_sustainability which = 77 value = 5 when = 1 }
	}
}

The Thomas process allowed use of the phosphorus rich ore in Norbotten and Lappland, which until then had been totally worthless. This is something that ought to be represented in VIP, IMHO

I also suggest changing Gästrikland to iron, lowering the value to 50 at the beginning. When the Bessemer process is invented, this event fires:

##################################################################
# Bessemer process increases the iron production in Gästrikland
##################################################################

event = { 
	id = 270027
	random = no
	country = SWE
	
	picture = 531

	trigger = { 
		owned = { province = 378 data = -1 }
		invention = 531
		random = 10
	 } 

	name = "Iron mining improved in Gästrikland"
	desc = "We have good news for you: The new Bessemer process for making steel has increased the value of the iron from Gästrikland, allowing more people to get into the business. As a result, the overall production of iron in the province has increased."
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = june year = 1850 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1890 }

	action_a = {
        	name = "Let's mine!"
		command = { type = resource_value value = 50 where = 378 }
		command = { type = life_sustainability which = 378 value = 5 when = 1 }
	}
}

After the Bessemer process was invented (it was invented in Gästrikland, where Gävle is situated, BTW), the iron was the dominating production in the province.

Of course, the goods could be changed to iron via the event, allowing the province to produce timber at first, however as the mining in the area started in the 17th century and just increased with the new invention, that isn't necessary IMO.

I also made events similar to the retractive/expansive forces in Agriculture for fishing, iron mining, sulphur mining and forestry. However, as they don't fit in this topic I won't post them here.

 

[Generalisimo]

i can't remember exactly right now how the resource_value command worked... are you sure you will get the desired effect?

 

[G-Klav]

i can't remember exactly right now how the resource_value command worked... are you sure you will get the desired effect?

Yep.

It works with fixed values. Luleå will get 50+70 = 120 = 6.0 in resource value and Gävle will get 50+50 = 100 = 5.0 in resource value.

I've used this command many times.
And, in case you wondered, Luleå gets a high resource value since Sweden produced nearly one fourth of the world's production of iron, the majority coming from the mines up there.

 

[Generalisimo]

Yep.

It works with fixed values. Luleå will get 50+70 = 120 = 6.0 in resource value and Gävle will get 50+50 = 100 = 5.0 in resource value.

I've used this command many times.
And, in case you wondered, Luleå gets a high resource value since Sweden produced nearly one fourth of the world's production of iron, the majority coming from the mines up there.

Well, no province can have more than 100 RV (a design policy ).
The production efficiency that comes with others techs and inventions will increase that value for you.
So, keep 100 as the max value.