VIP - Scandinavia

[palmus]

Do you mean the flag with the herring salad in the left corner?
i think it can be found at http://tse.dyndns.org/~sktse/vflags/index.html - Victoria Flag directory. Also when did the scandinavian monetary union occur?

oh yeah..
can you create some kind of commie-germany or what?

edit: Two Sicilies often get that communist stock flag when I play, often even before there were any commies. is it only a bug or have I got it all wrong?

 

[Sleepyhead]

oh yeah..
can you create some kind of commie-germany or what?

Excuse me for my stupidity but wtf are you talking about?

 

[tyrel68]

Excuse me for my stupidity but wtf are you talking about?

I am not even sure

 

[palmus]

Excuse me for my stupidity but wtf are you talking about?

ehehe
I got it all wrong. I saw some commieflags for Germany and my mind got really twisted
forgive me

 

[Sleepyhead]

ehehe
I got it all wrong. I saw some commieflags for Germany and my mind got really twisted
forgive me

It's okey for this time. But if you do it again i'll have to kill you

 

[awil]

i'm not sure if this is the right place for these (mainly stuff about finland) but here goes:

1) the populace of finland is too small and there are too many russians...ingame the populace of finland is about 800k at GC start...i checked a score of sources and even thought there was some differentation i concluded that the populace should be around 1,3 million...
the majority of ingame finns are located in a single province and the population distribution appears a bit faulty example: the viipuri region that historically greatly benefited from the establishing of saint petersburg had a major population

2)during the period of russian rule finland gained a huge deal of diferent sorts of things that separated it from the rest of russia
just a few examples: finnish soldiers and only finnish soldiers were responsible for defending finland, in effect finland had a separate military; finland had its own customs offices, so in effect crossing the russia/finland border was like crossing a national boundary; separate currency; the taxes were promised to be used based on the needs of finland; many many thing more

and as such i feel making finland a vassal of russia would be a much better solution than the current one

3)most russians in finland should be soldiers...not farmers
and the demographics appear wrong in many other things also

4) there appears to be a bug in the finnish party file(fin_party.csv) that messes it up big... a typo...instead of "pacifism" the files read "pasifist" which makes the parties have a laizzes faire war policy
(this is actually a bug but dince i dunno if they are going to fix it in the patch(whenever 1.04 comes) i just thought of putting it here

 

[tyrel68]

1) the populace of finland is too small and there are too many russians...ingame the populace of finland is about 800k at GC start...i checked a score of sources and even thought there was some differentation i concluded that the populace should be around 1,3 million...
the majority of ingame finns are located in a single province and the population distribution appears a bit faulty example: the viipuri region that historically greatly benefited from the establishing of saint petersburg had a major population

2)during the period of russian rule finland gained a huge deal of diferent sorts of things that separated it from the rest of russia
just a few examples: finnish soldiers and only finnish soldiers were responsible for defending finland, in effect finland had a separate military; finland had its own customs offices, so in effect crossing the russia/finland border was like crossing a national boundary; separate currency; the taxes were promised to be used based on the needs of finland; many many thing more

and as such i feel making finland a vassal of russia would be a much better solution than the current one

3)most russians in finland should be soldiers...not farmers
and the demographics appear wrong in many other things also

4) there appears to be a bug in the finnish party file(fin_party.csv) that messes it up big... a typo...instead of "pacifism" the files read "pasifist" which makes the parties have a laizzes faire war policy
(this is actually a bug but dince i dunno if they are going to fix it in the patch(whenever 1.04 comes) i just thought of putting it here

1) Not difficult to fix but remember in game 1k = 4k in real life
2) Finland is now likely to gain independance as a satilliete in 1860
3) Again easy to fix, I'll check later
4) Already fixed

 

[awil]

hmm...i get all your answers exept the 1...what has that got to do with anything?
the 800k is the multiplied by 4 number as is the 1,3m

 

[tyrel68]

hmm...i get all your answers exept the 1...what has that got to do with anything?
the 800k is the multiplied by 4 number as is the 1,3m

Oh never meant that 800k = 1.3 BUT if your reworking the POPS, 1k pop ingame is 4k to the overall population of the country

 

[Generalisimo]

Oh never meant that 800k = 1.3 BUT if your reworking the POPS, 1k pop ingame is 4k to the overall population of the country

tryrel means that when you put 1k in the POP file, that POP represent 4k ingame, so, if you want to put 800k in Norway, the POP file must have 200k, because those 200k are translated ingame into 800k

 

[awil]

i'm working on the new pops but since i've yet to come across accurate and usefull info about the finnish demographics at the time i'l just have to use the closest data i got...well....atleast its off only by a decade or two...
and i'll have to improvise quite a bit but unless someone else starts doing it looks like i have to do it

additionally i'd like to point out that historically there should be finns in that swedish province next to tornio...(and finns in st petersburg but who cares...its not like finland could actually capture that province in any game )

 

[tyrel68]

i'm working on the new pops but since i've yet to come across accurate and usefull info about the finnish demographics at the time i'l just have to use the closest data i got...well....atleast its off only by a decade or two...
and i'll have to improvise quite a bit but unless someone else starts doing it looks like i have to do it

additionally i'd like to point out that historically there should be finns in that swedish province next to tornio...(and finns in st petersburg but who cares...its not like finland could actually capture that province in any game )

Have fun reworking the pops but even thougth it's been said before:

1) Beware the x4 bug
2) Use the fully integrated POP files that are in VIP and not the fragmented files from Vanilla

 

[Dimes]

The agreement that Slesvig and Holstein should forever be together didn't change their status as two duchies ruled by the Danish king as an autocratic duke. I also fail to see how Slesvig-Holstein could rule it selfe in anyway without a political forum such as fx. the estates. I don't believe those were called in 1836.

I don't know why you bring the emperor into this as there wasn't any emperor in 1836. If you are reffering (as I suspect ) to the HRE then it's no secret that what was left of his power over the German princes dissapered with the Westpfalian peace of 1648.

Slesvig and Holstein were indeed two independent duchies with the danish kings as ruling dukes. Holstein with german population and a member-state of the HRE, Slesvig with mainly danish population (except clergy and nobles). The problem was that the duchies had different inheritance laws. Holstein didn't allow to trace inheritance through females, whereas Slesvig did. Frederik VII didn't have any direct heirs except through female tracing, so the Duke of Augustenborg was the heir to Holstein, which posed a problem for Denmark, especially as he used Christian I's "up ewig ugedeelt" from 1460 to try and claim being the heir to Slesvig as well

This moment was seized by the pangerman nationalists, who were trying to unite Germany (national parliament in Frankfurt), to intervene in an otherwise nominal civil war to try and bring Slesvig into Germany as well. Hence Prussia and other german states sent armies to support the duke of Augustenborg (who btw had to flee his castle on Als as the danish peasants were quite upset with his attempts to make germans out of them ) Anyway, we all know the historical outcome, danish navy blockading all Prussia's ports, Prussia's initial victories until Sweden-Norway (they had sent 15.000 men to Fyn at the time) and Russia (the czar was no fan of liberal revolutions at all and didn't want Prussia to gain the naval harbour in Kiel) were ready to intervene, which forced the Prussians to withdraw from Nørrejylland. Ultimately the danish victory over prussian forces 6. of July 1849. Only days later a peace was settled between Denmark and Prussia, which left Denmark to fight with Holstein on its own (and quite a lot of pangerman nationalist volunteers).

However, one thing not mentioned here is that once Prussia and Austria got over their own problems with liberal pangermanic revolutions of 1848-49, they actually sent armies into Holstein to help put down the "rebellion". The end of it was an international agreement that put the duke of Augustenborg out of the play entirely. He lost his right to inherit Holstein, and the danish royal line was acknowledged to be rightful heirs of both Slesvig and Holstein on the condition that Denmark didn't incorporate Slesvig into the kingdom itself.

This loss also was a contributing factor to the failure of the national parliament in Frankfurt, that had been trying to unify Germany under the Prussian king, he of course ultimately refused when offered the title as Emperor of Germany

 

[Sleepyhead]

Hello!
I really think that there should be some kind of event for Denmark to win the schleswig war.
Maybe a event depending on witch countries Denmark is allied to.
If sweden chooses scandinavic surge and occypies berlin Denmark gets holstien,lübeck,hamburg and mecklenburg and sweden gets it's former provinces pommern and bremen. Oh and Norway could get money for compensate.
And one if Denmark is allied with russia along with SWE-NOR, And someone occypies Berlin, Swe-Nor-Dan gets what mentioned earlier and Russia gets the eastern part of Prussia

Any thoughts?

 

[Generalisimo]

Hello!
I really think that there should be some kind of event for Denmark to win the schleswig war.
Maybe a event depending on witch countries Denmark is allied to.
If sweden chooses scandinavic surge and occypies berlin Denmark gets holstien,lübeck,hamburg and mecklenburg and sweden gets it's former provinces pommern and bremen. Oh and Norway could get money for compensate.
And one if Denmark is allied with russia along with SWE-NOR, And someone occypies Berlin, Swe-Nor-Dan gets what mentioned earlier and Russia gets the eastern part of Prussia

Any thoughts?

yes, and if Prussia wins they inherit Sweden, Norway, Denmark and half or Russia... aren't you exhagerating a bit with your peace proposals?

 

[Sleepyhead]

yes, and if Prussia wins they inherit Sweden, Norway, Denmark and half or Russia... aren't you exhagerating a bit with your peace proposals?

Okey maybe a little. But It would take quite an effort for sweden and Denmark to beat Prussia. And I still think Denmark should gain something from winning over Prussia

 

[Generalisimo]

Okey maybe a little. But It would take quite an effort for sweden and Denmark to beat Prussia. And I still think Denmark should gain something from winning over Prussia

Yes, peace...
Maybe some money for the war expenses if you want... but inherit part of Prussia has no sense.
In these times, nobody allowed anyone to go to war to get more territories... you have an example in the Crimea War.. when Russia tried to break the "Status Quo" of the time, all the major powers jumped on the side of the small one... when Russia decided that it could not win, they accepted peace... but you do not see an English Crimea? or a French Riga, right?... they didn't asked for a chunk of provinces in Russia...

 

[Sleepyhead]

Yes, peace...
Maybe some money for the war expenses if you want... but inherit part of Prussia has no sense.
In these times, nobody allowed anyone to go to war to get more territories... you have an example in the Crimea War.. when Russia tried to break the "Status Quo" of the time, all the major powers jumped on the side of the small one... when Russia decided that it could not win, they accepted peace... but you do not see an English Crimea? or a French Riga, right?... they didn't asked for a chunk of provinces in Russia...

They should atleast get holstien with a militancy boost for north_germans or something.
Well it was Prussia that decleard the war, not Denmark.

 

[tyrel68]

They should atleast get holstien with a militancy boost for north_germans or something.
Well it was Prussia that decleard the war, not Denmark.

That is not historical. This is what actually happened

1) Slesvig War occured
2) Denmark WON
3) November Constitution occured
4) Slesvig-Holstein was absorbed into greater Denmark
5) German-Danish Crisis occured
6) Denmark lost everything

All of this is modeled in VIP to the best of my ability

 

[Sleepyhead]

That is not historical. This is what actually happened

1) Slesvig War occured
2) Denmark WON
3) November Constitution occured
4) Slesvig-Holstein was absorbed into greater Denmark
5) German-Danish Crisis occured
6) Denmark lost everything

All of this is modeled in VIP to the best of my ability

Well I have never seen that historical outcome.
Prussia always conquer Copenhagen and the war is over.
That's not historical.
Is there something already been changed for 0.3?
I really don't know my history but how did Denmark win the first war?