VIP - Russia, Poland, and the Baltic States

[unmerged(14683)]

ID 2400 was the Royal Faction, now is the Conservatist party. Start date = 1836, End Date = 1900

Ideology: Conservative
Economic Policy: State Capitalism
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Moralism
Minority Policy: Residence
War Policy: pro-military
Religion: All
Culture: All
Status: x

End date - 1890.

Culture: Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian

ID 2401 is the Towarzystwo Patriotyczne party. Start date = 1890, End Date = 1900

Ideology: Socialist
Economic Policy: Planned Economy
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Secularized (??-dont know for sure)
Minority Policy: Limited Citizenship
War Policy: pro-military (Could be Jingoism)
Religion: All
Culture: All (This probably should be Polish only perhaps)
Status: x

Start date - 1936, end date - 1970.

Ideology: Socialist
Economic Policy: Planned Economy
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Secularized
Minority Policy: Limited Citizenship
War Policy: pro-military
Religion: All
Culture: Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian
Status: x

ID 2402 is the Kaliszanie party. Start date = 1890, End Date = 1900

Ideology: Liberal
Economic Policy: Laissez Faire
Trade Policy: Free Trade
Religious Policy: Pluralism (??-dont know for sure)
Minority Policy: Full Citizenship
War Policy: anti-military (Could be Pacificism)
Religion: All
Culture: All
Status: x

Start date = 1836, End Date = 1860

Ideology: Liberal
Economic Policy: Laissez Faire
Trade Policy: Free Trade
Religious Policy: Pluralism
Minority Policy: Full Citizenship
War Policy: anti-military
Religion: All
Culture: Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian
Status: x

Then:

ID 2403 is the Stronnictwo Narodowo-Demokratyczne party. Start date 1901, End date = 2000

Ideology: Conservative (Reactionary?)
Economic Policy: Interventionism (State Capitalism?)
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Moralism
Minority Policy: Residence
War Policy: Pro Military (Cannot be neutral)
Religion: Catholic
Culture: Polish (or All?)
Status: x

Start date 1891, End date = 2000

Ideology: Conservative
Economic Policy: State Capitalism
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Moralism
Minority Policy: Residence
War Policy: Pro Military
Religion: Catholic
Culture: Polish
Status: x

ID 2404 is the Polskie Stronnictwo Ludowe party. Start Date is 1901, End Date is 2000

Ideology: Socialist (Anatcho-Liberal?)
Economic Policy: Planned Economy (Interventionist? State Capitalism?)
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Secularized (??)
Minority Policy: Limited Citizenship (??)
War Policy: Pro Military
Religion: All
Culture: All (Polish?)
Status: x

Start Date is 1891, End Date is 2000

Ideology: Conservative
Economic Policy: Interventionist
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Secularized
Minority Policy: Limited Citizenship
War Policy: Anti-Military
Religion: All
Culture: Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian
Status: x

ID 2405 is the Polska Partia Socjalistyczna party. Start Date is 1901, End Date is 2000

Ideology: Socialist
Economic Policy: Planned Economy (Interventionist?)
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Secularized (Athiesm?)
Minority Policy: Limited Citizenship (??)
War Policy: Jingoism (??)
Religion: All
Culture: All (Polish?)
Status: x

Start date 1891, End Date is 2000

Ideology: Socialist
Economic Policy: Interventionist
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Secularized
Minority Policy: Full Citizenship
War Policy: Pro-military
Religion: All
Culture: All
Status: x

ID 2406 is the Proletariat party. Start Date is 1901, End Date is 2000

Ideology: Communist
Economic Policy: Planned Economy
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Atheism
Minority Policy: Full Citizenship (??)
War Policy: Pro Military (Pacificism?)
Religion: All
Culture: All (Polish?)
Status: x

Start Date is 1891, End Date is 2000

Ideology: Communist
Economic Policy: Planned Economy
Trade Policy: Protectionism
Religious Policy: Atheism
Minority Policy: Full Citizenship
War Policy: Pacificism
Religion: All
Culture: All
Status: x

And PSD:

Polskie Stronnictwo Demokratyczne, PSD (Start date - 1961, end date 2000)

Ideology: Liberal
Economic Policy: Laissez Faire
Trade Policy: Free Trade
Religious Policy: Pluralism
Minority Policy: Full Citizenship
War Policy: anti-military
Religion: All
Culture: All
Status: x

 

[Halibutt]

I made a party .csv for Cracow some time ago but forgot to post the results here. Note that it's a file for Cracow only as the situation was different in other lands.

country;id;name;start;end;ideology;Economic;Trade;Religious;Minority;War;Culture;Religion;Status
KRA;1800;Konserwatysci;1800;2000;conservative;interventionism;free_trade;moralism;limited_citizenship;pro_military;Polish;catholic;x
KRA;1801;Liberalowie;1800;2000;liberal;laissez_faire;free_trade;pluralism;limited_citizenship;jingoism;Polish;all;x
KRA;1802;Socjaldemokracja;1848;2000;socialist;interventionism;free_trade;pluralism;full_citizenship;pacifism;Polish;all;x
KRA;1803;Stronnictwo Ludowe;1895;2000;conservative;interventionism;protectionism;moralism;full_citizenship;pro_military;all;all;x
KRA;1804;Partia Narodowa;1848;2000;conservative;interventionism;protectionism;moralism;residence;jingoism;all;all;x
KRA;1805;Stowarzyszenie Ludu Polskiego;1835;1841;liberal;interventionism;free_trade;pluralism;full_citizenship;pro_military;Polish;all;x
KRA;1806;Konfederacja Powszechna Narodu;1836;1849;socialist;interventionism;free_trade;secularized;full_citizenship;pacifism;Polish;all;x
KRA;1807;Polska Partia Socjalistyczna;1892;2000;communist;interventionism;free_trade;atheism;full_citizenship;pro_military;all;all;x

Cheers

EDIT/ Note also that the two main factions' names (Liberalowie and Konserwatysci) are not names per se as I couldn't find the exact names of those political organizations. These, however, were the main factions and the political system in Cracow until annexed ws pretty much two-party and the chance of other parties or factions elected was very slight as only a very slight minority of aristocracy and university profesors had voting rights.

 

[Grosshaus]

Nice work with the parties!

Just make extra special sure all spelling issues are correct, I presume the spaces in Halibutts post don't appear in the actual file. I don't know if it's possible to have multiple cultures or religions for a party, has it been tested?

What you must make sure of is the party name size, too long parties don't fit in their designed space but overlap the map. Konfederacja Powszechna Narodu for instance is propably too long, you should test using the file.

Are you sure about the citizenship definitions? I doubt no parties at the start of the game were truly full citizenship ones wanting actual full suffrage. On the other hand I don't know of a socialist/communist party without full citizenship as one of it's prime agendas.

But to keep the threads at reasonable lengths it would be better to instead of reposting edit the existing one and, if possible, comment without excessive quotes. Pretty please with sugar on top

 

[John Poole]

Halibutt, can you list your parties in the format I did? It makes it easier when entering it into the Victoria Party Maker program.

 

[John Poole]

Copper Nicus: here is the new Polish Party file I made. You can view it and edit it using the Vic Party Maker...or MS Excel works as well I believe.

Edit: btw, you cannot have more than one culture or religion for a party so its either Polish or all. Unless it was only Polish I just chose all.

 

[Halibutt]

Just make extra special sure all spelling issues are correct, I presume the spaces in Halibutts post don't appear in the actual file. I don't know if it's possible to have multiple cultures or religions for a party, has it been tested?

AAMOF Konserwatysci, Liberalowie, Partia Narodowa and Socjaldemokracja are dummy names, either due to lack of sources on the names or due to different political organizations with almost the same programs popping up after the previous has been arrested/emigrated/dissolved or simply broke apart. Also, note that most parties have a starting date long after the Republic of Cracow should be annexed by Austria, which means in 90% of cases they won't be visible at all.

Still, there are no typos in the names.

Are you sure about the citizenship definitions? I doubt no parties at the start of the game were truly full citizenship ones wanting actual full suffrage. On the other hand I don't know of a socialist/communist party without full citizenship as one of it's prime agendas.

Both Stowarzyszenie Ludu and Konfederacja Powszechna Narodu were sort of socialist/national/revisionist mixture clearly aimed against all occupying Powers and refered to traditions of French Revolution and the multinational Republic (of Poland), which makes them pretty much full-citizenship backers. Moreover, both of these supported the idea of granting the Jews of Cracow the same rights as all the other nationalities had (which couldn't have been done due to Russian, Prussian and Austrian pressure).

What you must make sure of is the party name size, too long parties don't fit in their designed space but overlap the map. Konfederacja Powszechna Narodu for instance is propably too long, you should test using the file.

Will check it right away.

But to keep the threads at reasonable lengths it would be better to instead of reposting edit the existing one and, if possible, comment without excessive quotes. Pretty please with sugar on top[/QUOTE]All right, if there will is any need to edit my file, I post a link to the previous version with edited content.

Halibutt, can you list your parties in the format I did? It makes it easier when entering it into the Victoria Party Maker program.

Just copy and paste my file into a brand-new txt file. It'd be much easier as you wouldn't have to copy each cathegory separately.

BTW, the Socjaldemokracja is, AAMoF, just a translation of the Social-democrats from the vanilla file. I'd consider editing them out as I doubt there was such a party in Cracow at that time.
Cheers

 

[Old Joe]

They represent the change to the nation because of technology level. At the start UK is more efficient, but not because it has a different fixed modifier in several things, but because it has more techs and inventions. If Russia were to have most of her modifiers changed and then manage to reach the tech level of UK, would it truly have better research capability because of she had some scientist earlier? It's like going back to EU with hardcoded perks for nations, bonus exploration for Spanish and bonus attack for Ottomans. I'd rather see all nations get equal chances.

Actually you absolutely right, grosshaus, russia cant reach gb tech level through all vic period, obviously, and you know what, even playing THIS 1.01(all africa and annexed almost all uncivs)and even WITH this events for russia, in about 1890 england have half more techs in open negotiations then my unbalanced with those changes russia, i imagine how hard it would be without such exploits in further patches. In fact literacy thing is most and only core issue in this 1.01 so far. But anyway my events not hardcoded at all... they can and must be tweaked surely, just dont left one line for each of them with prestige+5-5 hhehe

And in your last sentance i better believe for some civilisation kinda game, isnt vicky suppose to be somehow historical, in which way by definition none of some two nations can have equal chances. And then, you probbly mean AI nations , as what equality may be spoken in way of nondeterministic events , with many chooses(not like darwin etc), when human choose always better second or third choose, when ai take on75% first one...

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Talking 'bout parties - ones in Russia could use an overhaul too. First of all, express your opinion, please, on whether they shuld be called by translated names, as now, or by transliterated names (which sometimes makes more sense and is widely used otherwise): "Westernizer" or "Zapadnik", "Kadets" or "Kadety" (KAnstitutional DEmocrats, actually). Several parties will get renamed this way.
Then, should the terrorist "Narodnaya Volya" be included in the party list? They fought during the late XIX century, and were the arch-nemesis for tsar's state security. If they should, they are socialist/interventionlism/protectionism/atheism/full citizenship/anti military. And maybe we should really upgrade the most generic "panslavic" fraction to the Union of Michael Archangel, a reactionary party founded in 1905, the only true party that boasted reactionary ideology then.

 

[Halibutt]

Triple hurrays to whoever scripted the Prussian events...

The Russian Czar has tried to win his Polish subjects over by mild policy. However, Polish nationalists fear this more than outright terror and Poland rises in arms. This also has somewhat effects the German part and Germany's full support to the Russian guarentees the end of the uprising.

That's what I call political correctess, historical acuracy and lack of bias... Good, almost democratic czar and the warmongering polish terrorists...

I'm slightly, to say at least, dissapointed.
No cheers this time. :|

EDIT/ You guessed it, it's about 1863 January Uprising...

 

[Grosshaus]

Talking 'bout parties - ones in Russia could use an overhaul too. First of all, express your opinion, please, on whether they shuld be called by translated names, as now, or by transliterated names (which sometimes makes more sense and is widely used otherwise): "Westernizer" or "Zapadnik", "Kadets" or "Kadety" (KAnstitutional DEmocrats, actually). Several parties will get renamed this way..

Most definedly Russian names as all countries should have localized names. This was just too hard to accomplish between betas who don't speak all languages in the World.

Then, should the terrorist "Narodnaya Volya" be included in the party list? They fought during the late XIX century, and were the arch-nemesis for tsar's state security. If they should, they are socialist/interventionlism/protectionism/atheism/full citizenship/anti military. And maybe we should really upgrade the most generic "panslavic" fraction to the Union of Michael Archangel, a reactionary party founded in 1905, the only true party that boasted reactionary ideology then.

Does 1.01 have Populists? If not then 1.02 does and I guess they are supposed to be the same thing. Most of the policies were made up since information was hard to get, so naturally they should be changed if you know more.

Panslavics are supposed to be sort of the Czarist faction, if another reactionary party is given they might never win elections. The name can naturally be changed, but IMHO perhaps not if the policies didn't change as well. That because at the moment there is a bug with party death dates propably messing things up.

Old Joe:

I didn't just mean literacy, I meant all the modifiers, tax, crime etc. I personally want to battle with the same difficulties as Russia had and achieve only through hard work. I didn't mean equal in the way that all countries should have the same starting position and overall the same chances, but that they would obey the rules the same way.

I have no idea if that's the general opinion or if those have actually such a drastic effect. I only wanted to point out what I think those might lead to for people to form an opinion on which kinds of situations they fit.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Most definedly Russian names as all countries should have localized names. This was just too hard to accomplish between betas who don't speak all languages in the World.

Does 1.01 have Populists? If not then 1.02 does and I guess they are supposed to be the same thing. Most of the policies were made up since information was hard to get, so naturally they should be changed if you know more.

Panslavics are supposed to be sort of the Czarist faction, if another reactionary party is given they might never win elections. The name can naturally be changed, but IMHO perhaps not if the policies didn't change as well. That because at the moment there is a bug with party death dates propably messing things up.

Then it goes like this: "Slavophiles"="Slavyanophyly", "Westernizers"="Zapadniki", "Social Democratic"="Socialdemokraty", "Panslavic"="Panslavisty", "Kadets"="Kadety", "Octobrists"="Oktyabristy", "Populists"="Narodniki", "Social Revolutionary"="Esery".

Populists, or "Narodniki", was more of a social movement than of a party, and it practiced most humane ways and aimed at educating people. "Narodnic terrorist" sounds incomprehensible, while "Narodnaya volya" (People's will) was founded mainly for terrorist activities. Though, they were banned all the time. Might include them as events.

Panslavics is a faction, but there never ever was such a party. As soon as Duma was founded a need arose to consolidate all the reactionary forces under the banner of one party. That's where "Soyuz Mihaila Arkhangela" kicked in. They simply should replace the panslavics if the bug is solved. At a certain moment (around 1903) political factions give way to political parties in Russia. This seems nice enough to reflect for me. But, if you think otherwise, we don't lose much.

As for the policies, there is only one question - shouldn't Bolsheviks be anti military? They promised to end WWI ASAP. AND they really did it. That was one of the issues where they prevailed over the liberal parties with their calls for "War until victory".

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Triple hurrays to whoever scripted the Prussian events...
That's what I call political correctess, historical acuracy and lack of bias... Good, almost democratic czar and the warmongering polish terrorists...

I'm slightly, to say at least, dissapointed.
No cheers this time. :|

EDIT/ You guessed it, it's about 1863 January Uprising...

Don't you think that event text for different nations SHOULD be somewhat biased. And certainly, from Prussia things looked much like this... Reactionary event texts for nations that are supposed to have reactionary policies sound good to me. The DO create some ambience. On the other hands, from Poland's side, the texts could really be very patriotic... And that could also help in creating ambience.

Guess what rulers of Russia and Prussia would do to the messenger that would bring them the news of "Valiant polish people rising to arms to fight their cruel oppressors... um... ahem... you!!!"

 

[Halibutt]

Don't you think that event text for different nations SHOULD be somewhat biased. And certainly, from Prussia things looked much like this... Reactionary event texts for nations that are supposed to have reactionary policies sound good to me. The DO create some ambience. On the other hands, from Poland's side, the texts could really be very patriotic... And that could also help in creating ambience.

I understand, although I got used to certain level in HoI. All the event descriptions were pc, ha and acceptable, moreover tried to give the player some insight. And if some text like this was introduced, then in 99% it was clearly visible that this was not a historical fact, but someones opinion.

Other thing is that the description as it is now might give a false image and create some extra stereotypes. I don't like it, especially that I know that lots of people get their history knowledge from computer games. Sad but true. And we don't have any counter-part in the game as
a) The best way to model January Uprising is drastically increase the militancy among the Poles, Byelorussians and Lithuanians, not to create a state with its' own events.
b) the proper January Uprising event (for Russia) actually never fires.

Perhaps, if the community decides that we drop the pc, ha and neutrality, we might prepare some new version of this desc to make it clear that this was not right. A simple set of brackets would do, I guess.

Anyway, you might have a point on this one. I started a new thread here.

Guess what rulers of Russia and Prussia would do to the messenger that would bring them the news of "Valiant polish people rising to arms to fight their cruel oppressors... um... ahem... you!!!"

I guess they would do nothing. The history as the desc shows it was popular in propaganda and stuff, but I doubt Bismarck or any of the Tzars believed their own propaganda rather than their own plans and services...

Cheers

 

[unmerged(18477)]

National revision

Hello to all

There must be a great revision of nations in Russia.

1. circassian, uralic, siberian etc cultures are TOO MUCH general. there lives tens of VERY different nations. but as i suspect it can"t be changed,

2 Vitebsk, Polotsk, Mogilyov, Molodechno, Vidsy must contain byelorussians

3 in Crimea amount of ukrainians in XIX was very small. there lived mostly tatars, russians ang greeks

4 Rostov, Belgorod, Kursk and Azov were habitated mostly russians

5 Nizjniy Novgorod, Penza, Simbirsk had many different nationalities, they can be designated as uralic

6 Kazan, Chistopol, Sarapul were habitated mostly tatars and uralic (nowadays in Kazan situated Tatarstan Republic)

7 in Samara and Katharinenstadt lived VERY MANY germans (Katharinenstadt is german name, don't you notice that?)

8 in Adyk (partly in Migulinskaya, Astrakhan) lived kalmyks. in Vicky they are designated as circassian, but they are western branch of mongols and must be designated as mongols. Also thay are BUDDHISTS not sunni. in that area much more buddhists and orthodox than sunni

9 Naxcivan must have azerbaijani (what the difference between azerbaijani and azerbaijdani? may be it's mistake?)

10 in Tuva, Irkutsk, Chita and Verkhneudinsk lived buryats and tuvins, they are also mongols(northern branch) not yakuts and they are also buddhists

11 Tungus also lived in eastern Sibiria (Eniseysk and Turukhansk) not only in Far East

Well, i hope this information will be used in further patches.

Best regards

 

[Halibutt]

Don't you think that event text for different nations SHOULD be somewhat biased. And certainly, from Prussia things looked much like this... Reactionary event texts for nations that are supposed to have reactionary policies sound good to me. The DO create some ambience. On the other hands, from Poland's side, the texts could really be very patriotic... And that could also help in creating ambience.

Guess what rulers of Russia and Prussia would do to the messenger that would bring them the news of "Valiant polish people rising to arms to fight their cruel oppressors... um... ahem... you!!!"

Check this thread

4 Rostov, Belgorod, Kursk and Azov were habitated mostly russians

With big Ukrainian and Tartar minorities still, especially in Azov area.

Moreover, Odessa should have mostly Russian and French population, with some Greek, Ukrainian, Romanian and Turkish minorities. Making it Ukrainian is somehow strange.
Cheers

 

[unmerged(14689)]

Moreover, Odessa should have mostly Russian and French population, with some Greek, Ukrainian, Romanian and Turkish minorities. Making it Ukrainian is somehow strange.
Cheers

Are Jews in the game? If so, the west of Russia should have a large Jewish community. Odessa, for example, had a very large Jewish community.

 

[unmerged(18477)]

Are Jews in the game? If so, the west of Russia should have a large Jewish community. Odessa, for example, had a very large Jewish community.

Yes, you are right.

And i forgot this one: tatars are SUNNI not orthodox. Strangely, in EUII tatars were sunni as in RL, but why in Vic such a mistake?

 

[Halibutt]

I'm currently reworking all the Western Russia for the POP subforum. As soon as I make my pops to work, I drop a line here.
Cheers

 

[John Poole]

Here is a little event I tested out for making Krakow become Poland. It works fine except the prestige command is not working for some reason. Obviously it is very rough right now. I think some reactions from Austria, Russia and Prussia/Germany are also in order. Feedback is appreciated and I am still working on them. I will simply update this post as it changes so I wont fill-up the thread with spam.

event = {
id = 32480
random = no
country = KRA

picture = 1848

trigger = {
NOT = { exists = POL }
owned = { province = 412 data = KRA } # Warszawa
atwar = no
}

name = "Poland Reborn?"
desc = "Krakow has managed to obtain the old Polish capitol. Shall we restore the Kingdom of Poland, become Poland with a Republican Constitution or do nothing?"
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1836 }
offset = 28
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1920 }

action_a = {
name = " The Kingdom of Poland is reborn! Vivat król! "
command = { type = prestige which = 100 }
command = { type = capital which = 412 }
command = { type = country which = POL }
command = { type = constitution which = constitutional_monarchy }
command = { type = party_system which = multi_party }
command = { type = national_value which = order }
command = { type = executive_designation which = hms_government }
command = { type = flagname which = "monarch" }
command = { type = political_parties which = right_to_ban }
command = { type = press_rights which = censorship }
command = { type = voting_rights which = landed }
command = { type = trade_unions which = non_socialist }
command = { type = set_ruling_party which = 2400 }
}

action_b = {
name = "Long live the Polish Republic!"
command = { type = prestige which = 25 }
command = { type = capital which = 412 }
command = { type = country which = POL }
command = { type = constitution which = democracy }
command = { type = party_system which = multi_party }
command = { type = national_value which = liberty }
command = { type = executive_designation which = parliamentarism }
command = { type = flagname which = "republic" }
}

action_c = {
name = "Let's remain Krakow"
command = { }
}
}

 

[Grosshaus]

John Poole:

Option B looks good, C should have at least some content.

But option A looks like a bit too modern. If Poland was to be reborn, wouldn't it start using the old constitutions as a base? I think it would rather have landed vote rights, order as value, no trade unions and state press.

Overall would Krakow alone turn into Poland? Perhaps there might be triggers enabling the event if it owns some provinces more? What about making this event linked to Poland forming, so if it revolts free Krakow would get a chance of inheriting Poland or the other way around with an event similar to this?