VIP:R 0.2 for Victoria:Revolutions - General Gameplay and Strategy

[LlywelynII]

I haven't played Victoria in years, so here is a question that will probably make the more experienced players here groan:

During industrialization, I am gradually converting farmers and laborers to craftsmen and clerks. Is there any reason why I should not convert all of them? Does that pay off in the long run as factory-produced stuff creates so much extra value that I can easily pay for the imports? Or is it better to keep some to fulfill your resource needs? If it is the latter, how do you determine your future resource needs when making that choice? E.g. right now, I am producing gigantic amounts of coal as Prussia, so I could easily convert some of the coal miners. Yet, I wonder whether I might need more coal in the future and would then not be able to buy it. I could of course reconvert them in the future. Hmm...

I loaded as France and Britain and noticed that they convert basically all their farmers/laborers to craftsmen/clerks in the provinces that have much industry.

To take one example - with the current VIP events, there are absolutely insane bonuses to sugar productivity, such that my /40 sugar plantation was far more lucrative than any factory possibly could be. The only reason to convert pops was for status from industrial points.

Another example would be when you simply need to have certain inputs, but I'm not sure that there's the same coal/iron crunch with Ricky/VIPeR that you used to get with Vicky. In any case, I'm sure the most efficient - if not moral - solution would be to get your raw materials from nonmigrating, nonimprovable POPs in African or Indian colonies and to convert as many of your national POPs as possible.

 

[ComradeOm]

Speaking as a vanilla Revolutions player, from the mid-game onwards I convert every POP I can in order to fill my factories. Exceptions are those provinces that contain strategically important goods - coal, iron, sulphur, etc - but by and large urbanisation and proletarisation are the names of the game

 

[Zanza]

To take one example - with the current VIP events, there are absolutely insane bonuses to sugar productivity, such that my /40 sugar plantation was far more lucrative than any factory possibly could be. The only reason to convert pops was for status from industrial points.

I just noticed that RGOs have a profit number too. o o o o Well, I guess that answers my question. That's a bit embarrassing.

 

[Herbert West]

I usually convert all non-vital RGOs (everything except coal, iron, timber, sulfur and gold), though it sometimes pains me to see all my fields empty, but thats the price of industrialisation. Oh, and yes, early-to-mid game, sugar is a good cash cow, but afterwards, the reducing events start to kick in. Same goes for coal, you will produce simply insane amounts, so coal RGOs can be reduced safely to 2-3 workers.

 

[OHgamer]

there is also a political dimension. All pops have a "base ideology". Farmers are conservative, craftsmen and clerks are "liberal" (and later in game new craftsmen and miners become socialist by default depending on your game conditions at the time the pops are created).

So depending on what your political strategies are, the rate at which you industrialize can be affected. If you read my AAR I link in my sig, playing Prussia I go for a go-slow approach to industrialization, with the goal of keeping conservatives in power, which gives me a party with interventionist economic policies and what I would say is the maximum flexibility in developing my economy, since I can expand factories and build railways while my capis build new factories (and I can build a few new ones with VIPs factory build events) and construct railways as well.

So in terms of gameplay, it's important to remember the political element in population transformation as well as the economic element. In the end, you only have to be #1 on the last day of gameplay to win the game, but rush industrialization too quickly, and the political consequences for your nation can be quite different from what you hope to accomplish.

 

[OHgamer]

Also I noticed that wars between Great powers are very rare by 1900s - is that common experience?

yes, in that we are working to develop the alliance system that leads to WWI in upcoming versions of VIP, so having the Great Powers declaring ahistorical colonial or regular wars will muck up that potential. In fact, our work to get the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913 entered into the mix for VIP:R 0.2 required much of the taming of the great powers so that the historical conditions are there for the wars to fire when all the nations involved are AI-controlled.

 

[Zanza]

there is also a political dimension. All pops have a "base ideology". Farmers are conservative, craftsmen and clerks are "liberal" (and later in game new craftsmen and miners become socialist by default depending on your game conditions at the time the pops are created).

So depending on what your political strategies are, the rate at which you industrialize can be affected. If you read my AAR I link in my sig, playing Prussia I go for a go-slow approach to industrialization, with the goal of keeping conservatives in power, which gives me a party with interventionist economic policies and what I would say is the maximum flexibility in developing my economy, since I can expand factories and build railways while my capis build new factories (and I can build a few new ones with VIPs factory build events) and construct railways as well.

So in terms of gameplay, it's important to remember the political element in population transformation as well as the economic element. In the end, you only have to be #1 on the last day of gameplay to win the game, but rush industrialization too quickly, and the political consequences for your nation can be quite different from what you hope to accomplish.

I read your AAR recently. But as far as I can tell, there is no way to make them conservative anyway. Or is there? So if they will be liberal no matter whether I make them craftsmen in the 1840s or in the 1890s or in the 1920s, I don't see why I should hold back.

 

[OHgamer]

I read your AAR recently. But as far as I can tell, there is no way to make them conservative anyway. Or is there? So if they will be liberal no matter whether I make them craftsmen in the 1840s or in the 1890s or in the 1920s, I don't see why I should hold back.

actually if you choose vote on issues instead of vote on ideology when that invention comes up, you have a powerful tool to get nominally liberal POPs to vote for the parties (conservative or whatever) you would prefer to have in power. Especially as in VIP:R 0.2 we changed the election events so that each event affects 15% of the total population, not just the population in one state, so that those campaign events can have a significant impact on shifting public opinion.

this means however that until the invention regarding vote on issue/ideology comes along, you need to keep the default liberal POPs in a minority if you want to have conservatives in the majorty and winning elections, and preferably with low consciousness so that they do not instinctively vote based on ideology, but instead either support the party in power or can be influenced by campaign issues.

 

[Herbert West]

On a related note, do pops still get the mil manipulation based on the party's ideology when selecting issue-based voting?

 

[unmerged(84717)]

Iirc, standard immigration (full citizenship liberal party in power + full voting rights &c. + maxed out, underfunded social programs) is kind of a waste of time for European nations since you're not going to pick up too many anyway.

Not really. If one manages to seize a precious metal province anywhere in America and he has favorable conditions for immigration, he'll be swimming on immigrants very quickly.

Some good ways to acquire "immigrant magnet" areas as an European nation are:

- Purchasing California from Mexico early in the game before the US takes it over.
- Seizing Zacatula and/or Durango from Mexico for its precious mines (preferably during the European intervention if you're playing VIP as you'll go home with whatever territory you had occupied at the moment France satellites Mexico).

- Conquering precious metal-producing provinces in either Chile or Peru.

- Purchasing South Africa or Australia off Britain (take note that immigrants at Africa, Asia or America have lower assimilation caps than those at America, so be careful).

- Either annexing Johore or buying Malaysia off Britain (whatever you can do at the moment).

- Purchasing Northern Sarawk off either Netherlands or Britain.

Oh, and make sure that:

- Your ruling party has favorable immigration policies (Full Citizenship is vital for both attracting more immigrants and raising assimilation cap, a Liberal or Socialist party is great, Pluralism is a plus).

- You've got as many "good" social reforms as possible, but fund them as little as you can. You'll only get an increase of consciousness that way, since immigrants do not care how well funded your reforms are: what matters are the level and how many you've got.

- You have spare RGO and factory slots at the intended magnet.

- You got no loans to be paid. You'll get pretty much no immigration if you're in debt.

Even if you're an European nation, you can get a crapload of immigrants over the course of the game if you've got the ideal provinces and favorable conditions. As an example, I managed to fully control California right before US seized it from Mexico (the Mexicans held the state unusually long, and I didn't really think about buying it at the beginning). That was around 1860ish, and each province had no more than 30,000 people (the whole state has 10 provinces, hence 300,000 people).

I'm currently at the end of the 1880's. And each province has roughly 900,000 people, that's 9 millions for the whole state. And all of them belong to the state culture (Polish in my case). All of that people came in around 25-30 years.

And another quick example, in another game as Belgium I conquered Zacatula in the mid-1860's. By 1935, it had nearly 25 millions Flemish people. Just showing you that it is indeed worth it to attempt to become a country of immigrants.

(Hope I didn't type too much. o )

 

[OHgamer]

On a related note, do pops still get the mil manipulation based on the party's ideology when selecting issue-based voting?

if you mean when the party of their ideology does not take power, I think it does, however the amount of mil decreases as plurality increases, until it is 0 at 100 plurality.

 

[Eos]

The complications are:
- I`m (alone!) in war with USA , wich doesn`t accept peace in spite of my occupation of Florida and killing millons of their soldiers (AI persisted in attacking Santiago de Cuba ignoring other possibilities... ). And I don`t think I have powers to fight them on their mainland;

One idea might be to build 1 or 2 armies with 4 cavalry+brigade (I don't remember which one adds speed) in each and start running around USA to get any provinces that you can. Just occupy and run. you might be able to "liberate" enough land to increase your chances for a peace deal. If the AI is busy landing on Cuba and attacking you in Florida opening 1 or 2 or more fronts might work.
I haven't played Vicky for some time but IIRC when a province is occupied the POPs there don't count so you might want to have those armies attack California and east coast (New York, Virgina etc) to ruin there economy and their ability to build a lot of troops.
Just hit and run killing whatever you can in the proses. Remember "the mother of the guy who runs away has never wept"

 

[Austrischen]

Very, very, very, very, very strange Vip game

yeah, is truly awesome. I cannot decribed how this happened, maybe, because i have bought (as uncivilized china) many machine parts?. on the other hand, why the europeans have railroads and the brits and gringos not?

 

[kalenderee]

Against the USA, you need a huge navy. Just keep hacking away at them - the military suggestions are good.

More generally, your production score will only be brilliant if you absorb China and railroad all over the place... which is very feasible but slightly gamey, since ANY European power can take Manchuria pretty early and keep moving from there.

Therefore, your claims to fame will be cultural techs and a ridiculous military score. Spain actually has the wealth and industrial capacity even without exploitation of -100 prestige uncivs to field a very respectable navy. Sure, you won't be first place, but you can reasonably expect to be fifth or sixth if you make yourself a cultural hub of Europe and build enough ironclads/dreadnoughts/whatever to crush anyone but Britain.

...Now, I also like to ally with Germany and hack off chunks of southern France, but that's not mandatory. It just helps future wars if your border is lined with mountain trenches and theirs is unfortified planes, and gives you a respectable extra profit besides.

 

[unmerged(62752)]

I found this strange as well. I'm playing as Japan.

 

[OHgamer]

there is an "issue" with the game engine when human players play large underdeveloped nations. the game engine calculates for nations that tend to remain under laissez-faire that the best thing the British and American capis can do is build factories (and check the number of factories they have built and you should see lots and lots of them). not sure what is going on since this is an .exe issue, and the oddest thing is that if you change your govt to one where there is a laissez-faire party in power, the start of the next month you will most likely see ENG and USA build rails with abandon, as if the .exe calculates that now human player has laissez-faire, the chances of catching up quickly in terms of economy are much higher, and thus the game needs to focus on rail construction rather than factory construction.

what is even more odd is that if you play a nation like Prussia or Netherlands or France, then the USA and ENG will be heavy on the rail construction from the get go, which is why I think the issue is related to the kind of economic policy the nation has and if it is a big nation like china & japan, which will have huge demands for industrial goods to fill pop needs and a state that will be slow to fill them given the economic policies and starting tech. Playing Russia can sometimes result in similar behavior by AI ENG and USA capis.

not much we can do about it, will require further tweaking of the .exe by groups that have licensed the game engine for third party development.

 

[unmerged(83121)]

Small update - on international scene everything fares rather well - USA accepted white peace and Germany (1-st super uber power) offered an alliance. Its a pity alliance is invalid against France who is my +190 friend

Thank you for advices, as far as I see the options are primarily external - to take some attractive overseas lands to get immigration and conquer all possible uncivs to get prestige, or to take some land from my european neighbours.

And that also implementing reforms could work (I don`t trust laissez-faire though). Ideally I might want some Interventionist/Full citizenship/Conservative/Protectionist party in power to develop my colonies. Its a pity my people don`t move to Cuba or South africa so that I could grant them statehood - so many workforce is wasted...

Btw, Mexico doesn`t want to sell California even for 350,000p

 

[The BadgerUK]

Has Italy formed? From an RPing perspective you could justify an invasion of Soutern Italy based on the old alliance with Two Scillies, and from a outright lust for land perspective Northern Italy is usually highly industrialised that could be a good way to boost your IND score.

 

[unmerged(83121)]

Yes, I`ve been considering that option, which has some good historical background, but now Italy has alliance with Germany... While when it was formed it was guaranteed by someone strong as far as I remember, and was stronger than me (perhaps I was too slow to build up my industry). I think I should have attacked Sicilies when they were independent.

This is Europe in my game:

Germany is superpower, and UK has pathetic 9 ships in total... though it is second after Germany by total score.

 

[The BadgerUK]

How many troops does the UK have? With so few ships you might be able to stage an invasion of mainland Britain to try to take the industrial north, justafiable RP because of the Spainsh claim to Gibralter, or perhaps depending on your ruling party, to free the opressed Catholics in Ireland...