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Dunois said:
Thanks for pointing that out - that is way off too. For 1836 should be almost all African (descendats of slaves).
Why aren't there any Pagan Kurds in Mosul and Mardin! 
The Yazdis were a major population in the region... In 1891 the Ottomans (Omer Vebhi Pasha) attempted to convert them to Islam... but only had limited success... although they did destory the Yazdi temple in Lice....
Plus there should be shiite azerbajanis and shiite kurds in Mendali
Kurdish Jews in Sulymania
Khoy should have Azerbajanis and Amernians in it and Ureima should have Sunni Kurds in it....
Plus Kermanshah should have Persians and Kurds in it (there are to many Lurs)
What do you all think?
The Yazdis were a major population in the region... In 1891 the Ottomans (Omer Vebhi Pasha) attempted to convert them to Islam... but only had limited success... although they did destory the Yazdi temple in Lice....
Plus there should be shiite azerbajanis and shiite kurds in Mendali
Kurdish Jews in Sulymania
Khoy should have Azerbajanis and Amernians in it and Ureima should have Sunni Kurds in it....
Plus Kermanshah should have Persians and Kurds in it (there are to many Lurs)
What do you all think?
if they represent too little minorities, it doesn't have sense because they are going to be quickly assimilated... the POP must be big enough to avoid assimilation.Kurdistani said:Why aren't there any Pagan Kurds in Mosul and Mardin!
The Yazdis were a major population in the region... In 1891 the Ottomans (Omer Vebhi Pasha) attempted to convert them to Islam... but only had limited success... although they did destory the Yazdi temple in Lice....
Plus there should be shiite azerbajanis and shiite kurds in Mendali
Kurdish Jews in Sulymania
Khoy should have Azerbajanis and Amernians in it and Ureima should have Sunni Kurds in it....
Plus Kermanshah should have Persians and Kurds in it (there are to many Lurs)
What do you all think?
Mendeli should be Kurdish then.... Mendeli and Khaniaquin are both menition as Kurdish Towns in Claudious Rich's books (the British consul to Baghdad during the 1830s).....Generalisimo said:if they represent too little minorities, it doesn't have sense because they are going to be quickly assimilated... the POP must be big enough to avoid assimilation.
Kermanshah is noted in the same sources as been a Persian town surronded by Gurani Kurdish tribes... Lurs live further south in Luristan.....
one quarter of Baghdad was Kurdish and another Turkish...
Turks in Sulymania sould be aristocrats (the Turks in the region tended to be the upperclass....)
Khoy and Uriema should not be all Kurd or Azerbajiani... both provinces sould be 50% and 50%....
The Yazdi's were at least 50,000 in the Mosul-Mardin region (Jabel Sincar)..... They would be good for an event....
And also according to Shaw and Shaw and ME Yapp Armenians did not make up the majority of the population in any province within the Ottoman Empire....
Anyhow... I think that Iran inparticular needs a re working....
Two many Lurs and not enough Azerbajianis... (Turks are 25% of Irans population....) This is not reflected....
This should be more accurate
Code:
Iraq_Turkish
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousness;Militancy;Size
1392;Turkish;Sunni;officers;;;;1
1392;Turkish;Sunni;aristocrats;;;;1
1392;Turkish;Sunni;farmers;;;;2
1414;Turkish;Sunni;aristocrats;;;;2
Iraq_Turk Shiite
1414;Turkish;Shiite;farmers;;;;2
Iraq_Jewish
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousness;Militancy;Size
1392;Turkish;Jewish;farmers;;;;10
1392;Turkish;Jewish;aristocrats;;;;2
Iraq_Kurdjew
1414;Kurdish;Jewish;aristocrats;;;;2
Iraq_Kurdish
Province;Nationality;Religion;Workforce;Ideology;Consciousness;Militancy;Size
1414;Kurdish;Sunni;farmers;;;;10
1393;Kurdish;Sunni;farmers;;;;8
Iraq_KurdShiite
1392;Kurdish;Shiite;farmers;;;;8
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Kurdistani said:
Do you have any demographical sources on Turkish and Kurdish Alevi population in Anatolia? I couldn't find anything useful. All sources seem to agree (more or less) that 20% of Turkey are Alevi, while 25% of Kurds living in Turkey are Alevi. But no real data on provincial basis. I'd be very glad if you could come up with something...
There is no solid statistical evendience on the Alevis... The Ottomana government down played their numbers (since they were not Sunni)... furthermore, they tended to live in the more isoliated regions of Anatolia making it was hard to count them any way...Gezz Inti said:
However, their numbers were many concentrated in Harput, Sivas, Diyarbekir and Mardin....(victoria provinces) I would make 20% of Sivas, 40% of Harput 15% of Diyarbekir and 10% of Mardin Alevis... Change some of the Turks to Alevis... and change some Armenians in to Kurdish Alevis...
Plus I think that 20% of Mardin and 10% od Mosul should be Kurdish pagan....
Kurdistani said:
First; we will need to convince people (some of them come to mind; OHGamer, Tunch Khan, Generalisimo) about these numbers.
Second; there is no Alevi "slot" left. I don't know if it is slighty possible to create one or if it would be the "lesser evil" to stick with Shi'ite instead of Sunni.
Regards..
Kurdistani said:
Fine. Would you then propose a draft code for all POPs in Harput, Diyarbakir, Mardin and Sivas (with [Alevi] Shiites replacing Sunnis)? I haven't prepared any POPs so far and leave it better to someone who knows how to do it.
Gezz Inti said:
Has anyone done any checking for the provinces southward into Syria - Latakia, Antakya area should have Alevis.
Also I think 40% Alevi in any province sounds way too high..15-20% sounds more realistic.
OHgamer said:
But how are you going to achieve 20% of whole Turkey, if you don't have something around 40% in some provinces.
Being unable to come up with statistics I decided to just ask friends from the region about their estimates. Quite strikingly both estimated 40% - one was from Sivas and I asked him about Sivas, and the other was from Tunceli and I asked her about Tunceli.
I know that this is not a scientific approach, but it's maybe better than nothing.
OHgamer said:
May be... 40% of Alevis is high.... However, from Mark Sykes accounts (the Caliphs last heritage) the region around between Savis and Diyarbekir was dominated by Alevis.....
As for Latakia and Antakya I am unsure.....
I have just finish my modifications in Central Europe here they are :
Germans in the Baltic Countries :
Province Nationality Religion Workforce Ideology Consciousness Militancy Size
387 North_German Protestant officers 1
387 North_German Protestant aristocrats 1
387 North_German Protestant farmers 2
388 North_German Protestant farmers 1
389 North_German Protestant farmers 1
390 North_German Protestant aristocrats 3
390 North_German Protestant farmers 6
390 North_German Protestant clergymen 1
390 North_German Protestant capitalists 1
390 North_German Protestant craftsmen 6
390 North_German Protestant officers 1
390 North_German Protestant clerks 2
399 North_German Protestant farmers 1
400 North_German Protestant farmers 1
401 North_German Protestant farmers 1
402 North_German Protestant farmers 1
403 North_German Protestant farmers 1
404 North_German Protestant officers 1
404 North_German Protestant aristocrats 1
404 North_German Protestant farmers 3
404 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
405 North_German Protestant farmers 1
425 North_German Protestant farmers 1
441 North_German Protestant farmers 1
Germans in Poland :
Province Nationality Religion Workforce Ideology Consciousness Militancy Size
412 North_German Protestant farmers 3
412 North_German Protestant craftsmen 2
412 North_German Protestant clerks 2
412 North_German Protestant aristocrats 1
413 North_German Protestant farmers 4
413 North_German Protestant craftsmen 2
413 North_German Protestant clerks 2
415 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
415 North_German Protestant farmers 3
416 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
416 North_German Protestant farmers 2
417 North_German Protestant farmers 2
417 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
945 South_German Catholic farmers 2
945 South_German Protestant farmers 3
945 South_German Protestant craftsmen 1
Germans in Volynia :
Province Nationality Religion Workforce Ideology Consciousness Militancy Size
365 South_German Catholic farmers 2
988 South_German Catholic farmers 1
989 South_German Catholic farmers 1
990 South_German Catholic farmers 3
990 South_German Catholic craftsmen 2
If you have questions comments or suggestion put it here .
Germans in the Baltic Countries :
Province Nationality Religion Workforce Ideology Consciousness Militancy Size
387 North_German Protestant officers 1
387 North_German Protestant aristocrats 1
387 North_German Protestant farmers 2
388 North_German Protestant farmers 1
389 North_German Protestant farmers 1
390 North_German Protestant aristocrats 3
390 North_German Protestant farmers 6
390 North_German Protestant clergymen 1
390 North_German Protestant capitalists 1
390 North_German Protestant craftsmen 6
390 North_German Protestant officers 1
390 North_German Protestant clerks 2
399 North_German Protestant farmers 1
400 North_German Protestant farmers 1
401 North_German Protestant farmers 1
402 North_German Protestant farmers 1
403 North_German Protestant farmers 1
404 North_German Protestant officers 1
404 North_German Protestant aristocrats 1
404 North_German Protestant farmers 3
404 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
405 North_German Protestant farmers 1
425 North_German Protestant farmers 1
441 North_German Protestant farmers 1
Germans in Poland :
Province Nationality Religion Workforce Ideology Consciousness Militancy Size
412 North_German Protestant farmers 3
412 North_German Protestant craftsmen 2
412 North_German Protestant clerks 2
412 North_German Protestant aristocrats 1
413 North_German Protestant farmers 4
413 North_German Protestant craftsmen 2
413 North_German Protestant clerks 2
415 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
415 North_German Protestant farmers 3
416 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
416 North_German Protestant farmers 2
417 North_German Protestant farmers 2
417 North_German Protestant craftsmen 1
945 South_German Catholic farmers 2
945 South_German Protestant farmers 3
945 South_German Protestant craftsmen 1
Germans in Volynia :
Province Nationality Religion Workforce Ideology Consciousness Militancy Size
365 South_German Catholic farmers 2
988 South_German Catholic farmers 1
989 South_German Catholic farmers 1
990 South_German Catholic farmers 3
990 South_German Catholic craftsmen 2
If you have questions comments or suggestion put it here
.
I'd just like to say Arab and Assyrian Christians are underrepresented or not represented at all ;-)
I dont know if this has been brought up.. i'm sure it has but its worth a shot.
We need Volga Germans! ;-)
I am also currently reading a book on Iran.. and it mentions Armenians as one of Iran's important minorities. If this means Iran before the Russians took the caucus holdings they had from them, I dont know. But it'd be worth looking into would it not?
and I assume the pagans in Persia represent Manichaeism and Zoroastrianism?
We need Volga Germans! ;-)
I am also currently reading a book on Iran.. and it mentions Armenians as one of Iran's important minorities. If this means Iran before the Russians took the caucus holdings they had from them, I dont know. But it'd be worth looking into would it not?
and I assume the pagans in Persia represent Manichaeism and Zoroastrianism?
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haven't you sent me those POPs before? or you modded them recently?Dunois said:
i supose these are new...Dunois said: