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I have just finished fixing the POP of the world number wise. I adjusted religion a bit here and there as well.

Basically this lowered India, China, The Ottomans (Syria, Iraq, Anatolia, & Bulgaria), Persia, Crete, Cyprus, Palestine & Trans-Jordan, French Guyanna, Ireland and Tunisia.

I have increased population in Algeria and Morocco.

Mike

edit: many, many other changes have been added & fixed. Most of this is not in the VIP or POP mod for reasons unknown to me.
If anyone would like my POP mod email me at: lysimachus@charter.net
 
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VIP - POPs

Hi all,

If our other groups (Balkans, Ottomans etc) could send their info on population locations & ammounts for different ethnic groups to me I will work it into the game files.
I am getting fairly good at it after 12 hours of editing yesterday! Holy bleeding eyes Batman!

I am a little disgruntled at how bad the Pop situation was screwed up in these files. As an example, Argentina was completely correct, while Tunisia has in the game files 4,000,000 people which is exactly 4x the size it should be. Now that is understandable; someone was told 'give the Tunisians 1,000,000 people' and that person thought they were being told 1,000,000 POPs. Which gives 4,000,000 people.

The entries i can not figure out are Persia which I had to multiple by .22 to get correct figures. Or Bulgaria by .46. Or Cyprus by .33. Just way out wacked numbers! Well, they are fixed... mostly.

If you want it, give me a yell.
 

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umm..

I will be posting some numbers/sources in the next couple of weeks.

The resources and distribution are affected by population levels around the world; when i remove 75% of Persia's population it affects the world market.
Does Persia produce an equal share of grain in the world? If they do not and I lower their population there will be more or less grain on the world market. These issues are all interconnected and can not be looked at in isolation.

This is why i am not stopping work on this even though unknown-x is doing a mod of AI & factory productivity. I think his AI is wonderfull, but i think my population/terrain/resources/resource pricing combo will be better than that part of his mod.

Michael
 
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nationality/culture changes

just a couple of notes regarding provinces:
Corsica should either have its own culture or should be given at least 20% Southern Italian or Northern Italian after all this island was a posession of Genoa until 1746
Fiume and all provinces on the adriatic coast to the west of Fiume should be part Italian. in 1919 D'Annunzio established a Republic in Fiume in defiance of the Versailles negotiations. The city was later split in two by the Italian and Yugoslavian governments.
all of the turkish coastal provinces should have a greek minority and, correct me if I'm wrong, but some Ottoman provinces need to have minority Jewish. For example Salonika (I don't know what the province is in the game) was more than 50% jewish, Baghdad was also around half Jewish until after World War I, and finally Istanbul had many semites
this is all I've noticed so far, but to date I've only been playing as Piemonte and the Ottomans in grand campaign
 

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stefano2294 said:
just a couple of notes regarding provinces:
Corsica should either have its own culture or should be given at least 20% Southern Italian or Northern Italian after all this island was a posession of Genoa until 1746
Fiume and all provinces on the adriatic coast to the west of Fiume should be part Italian. in 1919 D'Annunzio established a Republic in Fiume in defiance of the Versailles negotiations. The city was later split in two by the Italian and Yugoslavian governments.
all of the turkish coastal provinces should have a greek minority and, correct me if I'm wrong, but some Ottoman provinces need to have minority Jewish. For example Salonika (I don't know what the province is in the game) was more than 50% jewish, Baghdad was also around half Jewish until after World War I, and finally Istanbul had many semites
this is all I've noticed so far, but to date I've only been playing as Piemonte and the Ottomans in grand campaign
Provinces like Smyrna, had very large Greek minorities and Constantinople had about 40% Greek population until the 1920s iirc
 

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Russia

Hi all,

There are many population corrections being proposed in the Russia section...
virtually all of them are good choices.

Do we want to bring this all together here?

Mike
 

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POP correction issues about Greeks, Jews and more, are being discussed in VIP-Balkans and VIP-Ottoman threads.
 

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sources et al

Hi all

Source info on pop changes. Remember, I am not at the moment adjusting pop location, i am adjusting pop total numbers.

I do believe that the biggest mistake Paradox made designing this game is the graded changes in pop size-efficiency. Two 1000's are better than one 2000.
This really helps multi ethnic countries such as Austria and soon our Ottomans as we are adding & changing Pops. I do not yet have any good answer except maybe Paradox will make the Pops efficiancy more of a steady growth curve, or we could mod the major nation-states such as France & Britain to split some of their Pops in two to give them a bit more adaptability.

But that is some one elses decision!

Sources:
Persia i multiplied their Pops by .22. My sources were Julian Bharier's
Population Studie 22 and J.C. Russel's Late Ancient and Medieval Populations .
The Pop started at 30m plus, I adjusted it to 6.7m.

Iraq I mutiplied by .52 to lower the pop down to about 1.1m.
Same sources plus a British survey taken for the sultan in the 1890's.

Bulgaria I multiplied by .46 to lower their pop down to about 2.25m.
Cambridge Economic History of Europe & Ottoman census data from 1888.

Asia Minor i multiplied by .38 to lower its pop to about 10m including Constantinople. About 9m in Asia.
Same sources as Bulgaria

Korea I multiplied by .21 to lower their massive pop down to a more accurate 8m.
Source: Hoon K Lee Land Utilisation and Rural Economy in Korea.

Syria & Lebanon were a disaster with 10m + people! I multiplied by .12 to bring it to an accurate number.
Source: There are no direct sources for the Ottoman centuries; I have tracked Syrian pop through the centuries and it tended to stay between 1.5m and 1.75m. With the low growth economically & culturally in non Turkish provinces of the empire I am going for 1.65m people at game start.

Palestine, Jordan, Crete: .5 multiplier.
Source:Atlas of World Population History.

Cyprus has actually had very good census information both from the Ottoman years & shortly after the British takeover. .33 multiple
Sources: Britiah official census registers, Island of Cyprus.

French Guyana only has, what, 70,000 people today? Most demographers figure between 10,000 and 30,000 in 1836.

Ireland has 21m people at game start... do any of you need proof that that number is complete bull? huh? no, good.
I lowered to a hair below 7m.
For a source the Cambridge Economic History is fine.

Andaman Islands i lowered completly from gut instinct. So sue me!

Algeria & Morocco were vastly low so I brought both up to about 2m.
Tunisia i lowered to 1m from 4m. I think that was just a misunderstanding on someones part at Paradox as it is a perfect 4:1 ratio.
The Maghreb has since 700Ce. maintained a 2:2:1 ration between Morocco, Algeria & Tunisia.
Source:
Populations of the Middle East and North Africa Clarke and Fisher.

Michael
 

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Lycortas2 said:
Not to be too much of a pain but its more or less my thread and we do not have a VIP population thread.
As to correctness, I am correct the game is woefully wrong in many cases. I did not even need to check sources when i looked at these pop figures!
Instead of hijacking a thread you can always start a new one. If it's seen as desperately needed for VIP by me or Guinnessmonkey it can even have an "official" VIP - name format.

Just remember to work in co-operation with regional threads and general questions about pop modding belong to pop subforum.

btw. nobody owns a thread, especially if he hasn't even started it ;)
 

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The thing is pop forum was supposed to be about pop modding in general, so it isn't that good either to have VIP issues discussed there. Perhaps a better way would be to have a VIP Pops subforum like technology has?
 

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POPs are one huge mess anyway. Errors sometimes border criminal.
Fiume (why is the name of the province "Fiume" anyway? it took me quite some time to figure out what is that.) is the least of it. Idrsko (again what the hell is "Idrsko"?) is 100% Italian when there never was any. At the same time Udine hasn`t got a single Slovene. Neither does Trieste. Or Karnten. And then there is the Serb free Vojvodina and Croatian free Bosnia (again what happened to Herzegovina?)...
 

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Yes. I was puzzled about the general purpose of the main scneario forum's POP subforum. The organization of new POPs for VIP would be much easier with a VIP POP subforum.:cool:
 

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Phillip V said:
Yes. I was puzzled about the general purpose of the main scneario forum's POP subforum. The organization of new POPs for VIP would be much easier with a VIP POP subforum.:cool:
I started a POP reference thread with link to all the POP modifications I found, regardless of the thread they are attached to. Links to new ready files will be added on the run.
Cheers
 

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Lycortas2 said:
Persia i multiplied their Pops by .22. My sources were Julian Bharier's
Population Studie 22 and J.C. Russel's Late Ancient and Medieval Populations .
The Pop started at 30m plus, I adjusted it to 6.7m.
Found this:
Code:
Population Estimates (in thousands)									
	1800	1812	1838	1867	1869	1884	1888	1891	1909
Gardane	9000								
Thompson				4400					
Houtum-Schindler						7654			
Zolotoliv							6000		
Curzon								9000	
Medredev									10000
Be'mont		5000	6000		5000				
--------------------------------------------------------------
 

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numbers

So my numbers are not too far off! :)

Mike
 

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Please do not have two seperate POP mods.:(
 

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Phillip V said:
Please do not have two seperate POP mods.:(
That was sort-of my question, I think POP work should be centralized, much like the GUFSM for EU2 or whatever, having several would be confusing.