VIP - North America - Canada, Mexico, USA, + Revolters

[Generalisimo]

Here's another thing to think about (especially now that we are stepping up to making changes in the .inc files, now) the starting OOB for both Texas and Mexico.

They ought to be more like this:

Texas -

Army of Texas = 20 (would give Houston the historic 2000 men he had at San Jacinto)

Travis' Command = 2 (would put 200 in San Antonio - more than the historical 186)

Fannin's Command = 5 (there were about 400 men put to the sword at Goliad, but some of his force escaped)

Mexico -

Ejército del Norte = 6 (Cos' command of about 600)

Ejército del Sur = 12 (with a hussar brigade(?) Urrea's command of about 1200)

Ejército Mejico = 34 (with a hussar brigade(?), engineers(?) the main army under Santa Ana at San Luis Potosi - 3400)

Ejército Mejico = 50 (the other half of the army under Comonfort at Ciudad Mejico)

These numbers are much more in line with history and the game scale.

remember that the AI when it is at war will "almost" automatically reinforce the divisions.... so, for Texas for example, in the first week you will have 30.000 men in the army (3 divisions fully reinforcered).

 

[Generalisimo]

About Mexico (as you guys might know, I'm somewhat partial to Mexico):

Yeah, one factory at start takes Mexico from being a potential powerhouse (assuming you can somehow avoid devastating wars with the USA and European Intervention) down to being a vast land ripe to become a colony of someone else.

Mexico probably shouldn't have the steel factory she had in the original game - such major industry really came to Mexico in the 1880's - but having both wine and liquor factories at the start of the GC would be very reasonable.

I'd also think that probably lumber, and perhaps fabric and cement factories would be reasonable for the start of the GC as well, but I'd want to research that.

the problem i see with mexico is that if they do not have factories, they are almost annexed by USA or some European power...

 

[pimparel]

My thought after your first post was "we should make these changes." However, I was unsure of what to do to achieve it - .inc file adjustments I assume. So, pimparel, we'd appreciate your help again. Talk us through how to implement these changes, and we'll see it done.

This is a major change:

britishcolumbia_anglocanadian.csv
britishcolumbia_cree.csv
britishcolumbia_metis.csv

quebec_anglocanadian.csv
quebec_francocanadian.csv
quebec_inuit.csv

ontario_anglocanadian.csv
ontario_cree.csv
ontario_francocanadian.csv
ontario_metis.csv

novascotia_anglocanadian.csv

northwestterritories_inuit.csv

newbrunswick_anglocanadian.csv

newfoundland_anglocanadian.csv
newfoundland_inuit.csv

manitoba_cree.csv
manitoba_metis.csv

And some other missing file. You should verify if all province ID's are covered in the files above. Them its just replace the anglo and franco values, example where is 10 anglo, should be 5 anglo + 5 franco. The most important is to keep the total.

And please DON'T FORGET to add a <RETURN> to the end of file, if you don't add a blank line in the end of the file, this line won't be recognize and the province will be left empty.

Example:

784;South_German;Catholic;farmers;;;;24[b]<Return>
<Return>[/b]End of File

Good luck, if in need of more help, you can get me through MSN also.

 

[Niptium]

This is a major change:

britishcolumbia_anglocanadian.csv
britishcolumbia_cree.csv
britishcolumbia_metis.csv

quebec_anglocanadian.csv
quebec_francocanadian.csv
quebec_inuit.csv

ontario_anglocanadian.csv
ontario_cree.csv
ontario_francocanadian.csv
ontario_metis.csv

novascotia_anglocanadian.csv

northwestterritories_inuit.csv

newbrunswick_anglocanadian.csv

newfoundland_anglocanadian.csv
newfoundland_inuit.csv

manitoba_cree.csv
manitoba_metis.csv

And some other missing file. You should verify if all province ID's are covered in the files above. Them its just replace the anglo and franco values, example where is 10 anglo, should be 5 anglo + 5 franco. The most important is to keep the total.

And please DON'T FORGET to add a <RETURN> to the end of file, if you don't add a blank line in the end of the file, this line won't be recognize and the province will be left empty.

Example:

784;South_German;Catholic;farmers;;;;24[b]<Return>
<Return>[/b]End of File

Good luck, if in need of more help, you can get me through MSN also.

Thanks. Ok I understand we have to keep the total because of gameplay blance right ?

But the thing I don't understand is to what the size number refers too. What is it ? 1 ? 23 ?

 

[aprof]

remember that the AI when it is at war will "almost" automatically reinforce the divisions.... so, for Texas for example, in the first week you will have 30.000 men in the army (3 divisions fully reinforcered).

True, but only if they have the manpower to do so.

I'd suggest that the number of divisional units should be reduced as well - to three for Texas and four for Mexico.

The original OOB has Texas with seven divisions - Bowie (Travis); Grant and Johnson (Fannin); and 1st Texas, 1st Texas Vols, 2nd Texas Vols and Seguin (Army of Texas).

Mexico has nine divisions - Cos (del Norte); Cavalry and Urrea (del Sur); Cavalry, Gaona, Sesma, Toluca (Mejico); Yucatan (Yucatan); Oajaca (Oajaca) and Comonfort (C. Mejico). EDIT: I can't count - there are ten divisions.

 

[Mettermrck]

remember that the AI when it is at war will "almost" automatically reinforce the divisions.... so, for Texas for example, in the first week you will have 30.000 men in the army (3 divisions fully reinforcered).

Granted, it won't be perfect but I do think it's important for Texas to have the option to maneuver, particularly with cavalry. How is Mexico starting off now, btw? Are there still internal disorder events for them that might tie down a division? Or are they free to commit their entire army against Texas (not very realistic).

 

[aprof]

the problem i see with mexico is that if they do not have factories, they are almost annexed by USA or some European power...

Very true. And so it's almost imperative that we restore some manufacturing capability to Mexico.

I've done some research this morning and am convinced that Mexico needs a wine and fabric factory added to the present liquor factory.

I'm still looking into whether lumber, cement and possibly an arms or ammunition factory should be added back in. Mexico's economy was greatly reliant on its mining in 1836 (and that was much reduced after independance and Iturbide's Empire).

 

[aprof]

Granted, it won't be perfect but I do think it's important for Texas to have the option to maneuver, particularly with cavalry. How is Mexico starting off now, btw?

Having units with which to manuver was the intent of the original OOB for both nations.

(But I've seen more than enough posts in the last three months griping that "Mexico never had that many troops" - though it's funny, I've not noticed anyone complaining that Texas has so many more troops than its historic 3K+.)

I started this topic assuming the idea of new OOB was just up for discussion, and is not something that will get changed today and added in immediately. Let's get some viewpoints first.

Are there still internal disorder events for them that might tie down a division? Or are they free to commit their entire army against Texas (not very realistic).

Theo's Yucatan events are still in - but that wouldn't affect the initial situation. Perhaps there should be something added to force the Mexican player to not engage the Comonfort force. Historically Mexico used just over half her available forces against Texas.

 

[aprof]

About Niptium's Quebec POP changes: anyone want to do the changes as pimparel suggests? Niptium? Theo?

If no one wants to, I'll try. (Though I'm still not certain I grasp what's needed yet; I suppose when I get into the files, it'll be clearer.)

 

[Theodotus1]

Theo: sent the .inc, .csv and Texas tweaks to Generalisimo.

Many thanks. My apologies for getting these things figured out so late.

 

[Theodotus1]

remember that the AI when it is at war will "almost" automatically reinforce the divisions.... so, for Texas for example, in the first week you will have 30.000 men in the army (3 divisions fully reinforcered).

Good point.

 

[Niptium]

About Niptium's Quebec POP changes: anyone want to do the changes as pimparel suggests? Niptium? Theo?

If no one wants to, I'll try. (Though I'm still not certain I grasp what's needed yet; I suppose when I get into the files, it'll be clearer.)

I wouldn't mind at all Aprof, I'm the one that got all those statistics out in first place . Although I have to get certain questions straightened out first...

 

[Theodotus1]

Having units with which to manuver was the intent of the original OOB for both nations.

(But I've seen more than enough posts in the last three months griping that "Mexico never had that many troops" - though it's funny, I've not noticed anyone complaining that Texas has so many more troops than its historic 3K+.)

I started this topic assuming the idea of new OOB was just up for discussion, and is not something that will get changed today and added in immediately. Let's get some viewpoints first.

Theo's Yucatan events are still in - but that wouldn't affect the initial situation. Perhaps there should be something added to force the Mexican player to not engage the Comonfort force. Historically Mexico used just over half her available forces against Texas.

My experience with the Texas army is that the original OOB allows freedom to maneuver. (Texas can very effectively strike south and take Mexico City with the starting OOB, if it's used right.) With Sam Houston in command, it's a force to be reckoned with. What does get Texas in a long war is exhaustion of manpower, which strikes me as historical.

There are not yet any Mexican upheaval events in near the beginning of the GC. (I was just starting work on that sequence when 1.03 arrived.) Both the Rio Grande Republic and Yucatan are in now, and the Rio Grande Republic situation can cause Mexico trouble if Texas chooses to take advantage of it. But these uprising events don't occur until 1839.

After I finish some playtesting with 1.03, I'll finish the Santa Anna sequence of events, which will flesh out the Mexican internal turmoil situation more. And I intend to conduct further research on the situation at the time of the war with Texas, to see what else might have hindered Mexico then. (My research so far has turned up data on internal revolts until after Mexico lost at San Jacinto, but the research is in the early stages.)

The major political issue during Santa Anna's lifetime, as far as I can tell, was the struggle between the Federalists and the Centralists, and I'm in the process of unraveling this in order to simulate it.

 

[Theodotus1]

About Niptium's Quebec POP changes: anyone want to do the changes as pimparel suggests? Niptium? Theo?

If no one wants to, I'll try. (Though I'm still not certain I grasp what's needed yet; I suppose when I get into the files, it'll be clearer.)

I'll be happy to do them if no one else wants to. I can't get to them immediately, though.

 

[Generalisimo]

I'll be happy to do them if no one else wants to. I can't get to them immediately, though.

WARNING!
the POPmod already modded some of those files, so wait until you got VIP v0.1.

 

[Theodotus1]

Very true. And so it's almost imperative that we restore some manufacturing capability to Mexico.

I've done some research this morning and am convinced that Mexico needs a wine and fabric factory added to the present liquor factory.

I'm still looking into whether lumber, cement and possibly an arms or ammunition factory should be added back in. Mexico's economy was greatly reliant on its mining in 1836 (and that was much reduced after independance and Iturbide's Empire).

I'd say give Mexico anything that can historically be supported. Mexico could have been a great power, if not for leadership issues (Viva Santa Anna!) and such.

 

[Generalisimo]

After I finish some playtesting with 1.03, I'll finish the Santa Anna sequence of events, which will flesh out the Mexican internal turmoil situation more. And I intend to conduct further research on the situation at the time of the war with Texas, to see what else might have hindered Mexico then. (My research so far has turned up data on internal revolts until after Mexico lost at San Jacinto, but the research is in the early stages.

Talking about Santa Anna... i have edited your event that should put Santa Anna as a leader (remember? the bugged leader command? ).
I have added 20 leadership to Mexico in that event, so the AI usually uses those points to create Santa Anna. A player always does that.

 

[Niptium]

WARNING!
the POPmod already modded some of those files, so wait until you got VIP v0.1.

Hmm I'm not sure what you meaN ? I'm ready to make those changes and what exactly is that patch you are referring to ?

 

[Theodotus1]

Talking about Santa Anna... i have edited your event that should put Santa Anna as a leader (remember? the bugged leader command? ).
I have added 20 leadership to Mexico in that event, so the AI usually uses those points to create Santa Anna. A player always does that.

Excellent. Many thanks. I'll add that change to my files.

Have you seen the AI actually use the extra leadership to activate Santa Anna? (If not, I suppose we could mod the Mexico .inc file so that he's active at start.)

 

[Theodotus1]

Hmm I'm not sure what you meaN ? I'm ready to make those changes and what exactly is that patch you are referring to ?

He's referring to a project that's been going on which is focused on improving accuracy of the game POPs. Apparently some of your changes have already been incorporated into VIP, and we should wait for the .01 release to see what still needs to be addressed.