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Black_Shade

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Alyosha said:
Also, if combined the precious metal province in Idaho would attract some immigrants too - maybe Seattle and Portland would actually grow.

Yeah i combined maryland/deleware into the already combined penn & new jersey, giving it 9 provinces. I did the same with the midwest, making 2 large 9 province states. As long as you keep factories open, those states do seem to get at least some immigration due to their increased size. California and virginia tend to win out because of RGOs, but it does seem to work a little.

Of course, my immigration all around has not been good so far in my games, but I havent played past 1870 yet, even with a liberal/lim citizenship party, 100 plurality, and 3 of the reforms maxed (i undid the workhour reforms to boost industry). The only times I really got immigrants in my few games so far is when austria has its massive revolts, I get a whole lot of polish+ ukranian+ south german pops, but as soon as they take care of their revolts, my immigration pool dries up and doesn't seem to come back. I havent had any irish/N german/french/chinese immigrants at all.
 

shasla6

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It might also be nice if the oregon territories were formed into a single large state, oregon/washington/idaho, so they might attract some immigrants. Their immigration rates would be small due to relatively weak RGOs (all timber IIRC), but they would at least get some due to province size. Same thing goes for some of the midwest states, you could have an ohio/michigan combo and an illinois/indiana/wisconsin combo. It's rather silly to see california with 150 million people while the midwest & pacific northwest are nearly uninhabited

Yes, this seems like the way to go. Either merge existing, underpopulated states, or split up overpopulated ones. Maybe some combination of both.
 

unmerged(61781)

Corporal
Oct 16, 2006
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Hi, I have come back to VIP after a short time away (work and home life enforced).

I have eventually finished a short event script for ending the Aroostook war. I find the only way the war ends is by completly thrasing the US and getting 6 or so territories. Not very Historical.

Anyway as its my first script could someone read through it and see if there are any obvious flaws.

thanks

#######################################
# stalemate for The Aroostook War - UK#
#######################################
event = {
id = a001
random = no
country = ENG

trigger = {

war = { country = ENG country = USA }
owned = { province = 623 data = ENG } # Easton

#US fails to make gains in Canada#
control = { province = 623 data = ENG } # Easton

control = { province = 573 data = ENG }#Quebec
control = { province = 631 data = ENG }
control = { province = 632 data = ENG }
control = { province = 637 data = ENG }

control = { province = 636 data = ENG }#New Brunswick
control = { province = 635 data = ENG }

control = { province = 633 data = ENG }#Nova Scotia
control = { province = 634 data = ENG }

control = { province = 608 data = ENG }#Ontario
control = { province = 609 data = ENG }
control = { province = 610 data = ENG }
control = { province = 611 data = ENG }

#UK fails to make gains in USA#
NOT = {
OR = {
control = { province = 579 data = ENG }
control = { province = 624 data = ENG }
control = { province = 625 data = ENG }
control = { province = 626 data = ENG }
control = { province = 627 data = ENG }
control = { province = 606 data = ENG }
control = { province = 580 data = ENG }
control = { province = 581 data = ENG }
control = { province = 629 data = ENG }#Boston
control = { province = 583 data = ENG }#New York
control = { province = 588 data = ENG }#Washington
}

name = Aroostock war stalemate
desc = The difficulties of the terrain and the remoteness led to limited forces being deployed on either side and limited gains being made. Not wishing to be in a long drawn out and exspensive campaign the British government decided to negotiate a settlement.
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = june year = 1842 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1850 }

action_a = {
name = Negotiate peace; secede Easton for monetary recompense from the USA
command = { type = trigger which = a002 } #US to accept or refuse
command = { type = sleepevent which = a006 } # USA - Aroostock stalemate -US

action_b = {
name = this is British sovereign soil. No defeat! No surrender!
command = { type = sleepevent which = a006 } # USA - Aroostock stalemate -US

}
}


############################################
# British wish to negotiate a peace - US #
############################################

event = {
id = a002
random = no
country = USA

#triggered by UK a001
name = Us reaction to British Negotiate
desc = The British wish to discuss an end to the conflict.
style = 0

action_a = {
name = Purchase Easton to secure peace
command = { type = treasury value = -5000 }
command = { type = trigger which = a003 }
command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 0 }

action_b = {
name = white peace
command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 0 }
command = { type = trigger which = a004 }

action_c = {
name = No chance, we about to make a breakthrough
command = { type = trigger which = a005 }



}
}

############################################
# Americans agree to purchase Easton - UK #
############################################

event = {
id = a003
random = no
country = ENG

#triggered by US a002
name = The US agree to purchase Easton
desc = to bring about peace the Americans have agreed to purchase Easton
style = 0

action_a = {
name = Sell Easton to secure peace
command = { type = treasury value = +5000 }
command = { type = secedeprovince which = USA value = 623 } # Easton
}
}

###############################
# Aroostook white peace - UK #
###############################

event = {
id = a004
random = no
country = ENG

#triggered by US 002
name = Lets just call it quits and go home.
desc = The Americans have agreed to stop the war.
style = 0

action_a = {
name = peace in our time
}
}

###############################
# Aroostook continues - UK #
###############################

event = {
id = a005
random = no
country = ENG

#triggered by US 002
name = Call up the reserves.
desc = The Americans refuse to negotiate. On to Washington.
style = 0

action_a = {
name = The war continues
}
}




########################################
# stalemate for The Aroostook War - USA#
########################################
event = {
id = a006
random = no
country = USA

trigger = {

war = { country = ENG country = USA }
owned = { province = 623 data = ENG } # Easton

#UK fails to make gains in USA#
control = { province = 579 data = USA }
control = { province = 624 data = USA }
control = { province = 625 data = USA }
control = { province = 626 data = USA }
control = { province = 627 data = USA }
control = { province = 606 data = USA }
control = { province = 580 data = USA }
control = { province = 581 data = USA }
control = { province = 629 data = USA }#Boston
control = { province = 583 data = USA }#New York
control = { province = 588 data = USA }#Washington

#US fails to make gains in Canada#
NOT = {
OR = {control = { province = 623 data = ENG } # Easton

control = { province = 573 data = USA }#Quebec
control = { province = 631 data = USA }
control = { province = 632 data = USA }
control = { province = 637 data = USA }

control = { province = 636 data = USA }#New Brunswick
control = { province = 635 data = USA }

control = { province = 633 data = USA }#Nova Scotia
control = { province = 634 data = USA }

control = { province = 608 data = USA }#Ontario
control = { province = 609 data = USA }
control = { province = 610 data = USA }
control = { province = 611 data = USA }


}

name = Aroostock war stalemate
desc = The difficulties of the terrain and the remoteness led to limited forces being deployed on either side and limited gains being made. Not wishing to be in a long drawn out and exspensive campaign the United States government decided to negotiate a settlement.
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = june year = 1842 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1850 }

action_a = {
name = Negotiate peace; secede Easton for monetary recompense from the USA
command = { type = trigger which = a007 } #UK to accept or refuse
command = { type = sleepevent which = a001 } # UK - Aroostock stalemate -UK

action_b = {
name = this is British sovereign soil. No defeat! No surrender!
command = { type = sleepevent which = a001 } # UK - Aroostock stalemate -UK

}
}


############################################
# Americans wish to negotiate a peace - UK #
############################################

event = {
id = a007
random = no
country = ENG

#triggered by UK a006
name = British reaction to Americans Negotiate
desc = The United States wish to discuss an end to the conflict.
style = 0

action_a = {
name = Sell Easton to secure peace
command = { type = treasury value = +5000 }
command = { type = trigger which = a008 }
command = { type = peace which = USA value = 0 }

action_b = {
name = white peace
command = { type = peace which = USA value = 0 }
command = { type = trigger which = a009 }

action_c = {
name = No chance, we about to make a breakthrough
command = { type = trigger which = a010 }



}
}

######################################
# British agree to sell Easton - USA #
######################################

event = {
id = a008
random = no
country = USA

#triggered by Uk a007
name = The British agree to sell Easton
desc = to bring about peace the British have agreed to sell Easton
style = 0

action_a = {
name = Purchase Easton to secure peace
command = { type = treasury value = -5000 }
command = { type = province = 623 data = ENG } # Easton
}
}

###############################
# Aroostook white peace - USA #
###############################

event = {
id = a009
random = no
country = USA

#triggered by Uk 007
name = Lets just call it quits and go home.
desc = The British have agreed to stop the war.
style = 0

action_a = {
name = peace in our time
}
}

###############################
# Aroostook continues - USA #
###############################

event = {
id = a010
random = no
country = USA

#triggered by US 002
name = Call up the reserves.
desc = The British refuse to negotiate. On to Hudson bay.
style = 0

action_a = {
name = The war continues
}
}
 
Feb 19, 2007
605
0
I'm playing as Texas in 1836 and have "won" independence although Mexico refused the initial treaty (which I assume is historically accurate). I think that the next version should include a treaty with the U.S. and Mexico that, if the Republic has good relations with either country, they will renounce their claims on Texas held lands. This of course would have to be done after the historical era of nationalism and Manifest Destiny in mainly the United States.

Or is there already an option for this?
 

Codfish

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Canada/US/Cree Relationship

Hi all,

I'm playing my first game of VIP: R (hotfixes installed) as the United States, and I noticed something weird happen. The UK picked the ahistorical path in the Aroostook War and DoW'd me - okay, no big deal, that happens sometimes. I managed to beat them back, taking Easton plus two Canadian provinces (London and somewhere in Quebec) in the peace deal, and triggering the Liberation of Canada event, whereupon I chose to make satellite states. However, the aftermath seemed kind of confusing to me, so I have a few questions:

1) After the event triggered, the distribution of land seemed kind of weird. Quebec has all of its state except for Amos (Cree-controlled) and the two southernmost provinces (in US hands), plus Labrador. Canada controls the southern and northern strips of Ontario, with the center in Cree hands. I, the US, have Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, the two aforementioned provinces of Quebec, and one random province in northeastern Manitoba (on the Hudson Bay coast). The UK still holds the island of Newfoundland, plus all of Keewatin. Is this what's supposed to happen? I sort of understand why NFLD should remain British (it was often considered separate from the rest of Canada), but I feel there are also justifications for it to become an American satellite, or just annexed to the US like NB and NS. The rest, though, is weird - why are Ungava and northern Ontario part of their respective countries, when they would have become Cree if things had gone historically? Shouldn't NE Manitoba and Keewatin be Cree as well? Furthermore, though Canadian Liberation breaks the Cree away from their UK orbit, why don't they then become a US satellite the way the Apache do?

2) More generally, why isn't annexation of Canada an option for the US here? Looking at the events, it seems that the US can only annex Canada once Canada gets satellite or dominion status. Why? The US tried to annex the north in the Revolutionary War, and then again (I believe, though I could be misremembering) in 1812. Why does it need to wait patiently now for Confederation?

3) Fast-forwarding a bit, I've reached 1860, and even more questions have arisen. First, though the Oregon Treaty did not trigger (maybe it was slept by the Liberation of Canada event?), the event giving Vancouver Island to the British did. Huh? I can't imagine that a Britain that was kicked out of NA would still want it, especially given that the US was eyeing British Columbia greedily even in our continuity.

4) Still on the Oregon thing, looking over the US/Cree events list, there does not seem to be a US equivalent of the Dease Lake Gold Rush, meaning that the US cannot currently get to the 54-40 line. This clearly seems incorrect to me.

5) Furthermore, many of Canada's treaty events (to get land from the Cree) rely on it having BC. This seems incorrect; even if the UK backed down on the Oregon treaty, that shouldn't stop Canada from settling Saskatchewan and Alberta.

6) Canada also seems to be missing any events to get the Arctic - Keewatin, most of NWT, and the two eastern provinces of Yukon. Its last treaty with the Cree has the Cree ceding northern Alberta and Saskatchewan (including province #153, its capital), but there's never any event letting Canada inherit Cree lands.

7) Lastly, and probably least importantly: assuming the US does gain control over Canada (either through annexation, or satelliting, or just liberation), there is currently no good way for whichever country/countries in control of Ontario and Quebec to settle the Cree lands in those states, nor for the US to settle the rest of Canada (since if it had any level of control over Canada, I can't imagine it wouldn't have seized the opportunity to move its homesteaders north). Should there be?

Thanks for all the work! VIP seems really awesome so far...
 
Last edited:

Francis II

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Codfish said:
2) More generally, why isn't annexation of Canada an option for the US here? Looking at the events, it seems that the US can only annex Canada once Canada gets satellite or dominion status. Why? The US tried to annex the north in the Revolutionary War, and then again (I believe, though I could be misremembering) in 1812. Why does it need to wait patiently now for Confederation?

I wrote some events for this several years ago, which can be found farther back in this thread, here.
 

unmerged(34416)

Captain
Sep 17, 2004
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2
I've just played a game as Mexico, and I've some observations on it.

I annexed Texas right away. Texas is a thorn in Mexico's side, and without Texas it's much easier. Perhaps too easy. I fought 0 wars against the US.

When I declined the treaty of Velasco the USA did not intervene, and I continued the war against Texas - for about 2 weeks, since they only had Houston left, and annexed them. The game is cleverly setup to allow this, giving Texas 3 starting provinces.

From that point on I built up my military and my industry, avoided wars with Europe - including the pastry war.

I kept all of the non-core provinces, although with the exception of Texas they were all almost useless as they had such few population.

The population of Mexico has been changed, and I presume it's now more accurate. The effect of this is that Mexico will have around 60% national population, even with a full citizenship party in power. There's provinces with massive amount of non-Mexicans that will never switch over to being Mexican. I managed to manipulate it so that other than an officer pop in Texas, and a few native pops in empty provinces I had everything Mexican. But I don't think the AI is likely to ensure that all non-Mexicans are unemployed craftsmen so that they migrate :p I don't know my Mexican history very well so I don't know if it's the intention for Mexico to have such a large native population that never switches over.

Annexing Texas avoided any kind of border tension with the US that I was aware of. The events all have Mexico declaring war on the USA, it's rare that USA directly declares, and as long as Mexico keeps a large enough military score USA will keep sweet. Perhaps this is a little too good to be true though, and even though the game is going a-historically then perhaps in 1846, should Mexico own Texas then there should be some kind of rebellion or potential for US/Mexican war? Simply ignoring the treaty of Velasco and annexing Texas seems a bit too simple a way for Mexico to completely avoid any US wars.

After 1850 Mexico can build relations with USA without California seceeding, and that seemed to be enough to seal my ownership of California, New Mexico etc.

However I did not receive parts of Texas from Cherokee. Can't work out why. Perhaps because I didn't receive Dallas and the rest of Texas coming to me from Cherokee maybe depends on this.

There's a key civil war in Mexico, I found it would have been almost impossible to stop, plus as I'd just had democracy whipped out from under me I let the civil war happen, and democracy was restored. As far as I can tell this is the historical path, and there didn't seem to be any events to switch other than having a real revolution. The result of this though was that Apache stopped being my satellite, and eventually, many years later USA declared war on them. Perhaps Apache should be restored as a Mexican satellite any time it isn't as long as USA haven't bought their territory or had the Guadalupe Hidalgo treaty.

Deseret declares independence from Apache, which is in the Mexican "sphere" however it immediately becomes a US satellite. I'm not sure if this is intentional. Mexico thereby loses this territory - unless they declare war on Deseret and the USA. Perhaps they shouldn't declare independence if Mexico manages to keep hold of all it's land?

USA continues to have cores on land they've never owned, nor have any national population in. It's fair enough for Manifest Destiny to apply to this land when it's essentially empty and contested. However if Mexico manages to keep hold of it, doesn't sell it, and doesn't lose a war to the US then perhaps USA should lose those cores, perhaps by 1870. In addition the Guadalupe Hidalgo treaty might have an earlier finish date. If the USA had not done it in 1848 then is it still realistic for it in 1895 when things were considerably different, and Mexico wasn't a brand new nation?

Edit : A bit I meant to say.

Historically Mexico was desperate to attract immigrants, but failed. Even with all of California (reduced) gold mines, 80% pluracy, and a full citizenship/secularized liberal party in power Mexico gets 0 immigrants.

I'm not sure of the exact reasons why Mexico historically failed to attract immigrants. Perhaps it was because they didn't have land with as much potential as the US, perhaps because they lost wars to the US, perhaps because Texas and California rebelled. But in a game where Mexico survives in tact then perhaps the new liberal government should institute some reforms, so that Mexico can attract at least some immigration.

As it stands it seems a little bit unfair on Mexico that it can end up with a population in California of around 100K, while all the USA has to do is own it and it's bursting at the seams with immigrants. Also, perhaps the California gold rush event that kicks off Californian immigration for the US should also happen for Mexico. Although it won't cause immigration for them.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(34416)

Captain
Sep 17, 2004
414
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There's an event for Texas to switch to sugar production. However it's already producing sugar.

texas already produces sugar.png
 

OHgamer

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hmm i thought i fixed that.
 

unmerged(34416)

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There's a problem with Dallas, in that it can only go to Texas. If Texas is gobbled up before the event that hands it over from Cherokee, then it'll stay in Cherokee hands until taken in a peace treaty or annexed. In addition other parts of Texas seceding from the natives hinges on Dallas being owned.
 

Emp_Palpatine

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Haven't seen it myself, but I am transmitting a message from a french player:
When the US annex canada (by event) following a war against UK, it does have canadian natives as satellites, but don't get any events regarding their annexation.
WAD? Or is the ahistorical choice just unfinished at the moment?
 

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Emp_Palpatine said:
Haven't seen it myself, but I am transmitting a message from a french player:
When the US annex canada (by event) following a war against UK, it does have canadian natives as satellites, but don't get any events regarding their annexation.
WAD? Or is the ahistorical choice just unfinished at the moment?

if he's talking about Cree-Athabaska, unfinished ahistorical part that will be worked on in the near future.
 

OHgamer

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Halk said:
There's a problem with Dallas, in that it can only go to Texas. If Texas is gobbled up before the event that hands it over from Cherokee, then it'll stay in Cherokee hands until taken in a peace treaty or annexed. In addition other parts of Texas seceding from the natives hinges on Dallas being owned.

will check
 

Emp_Palpatine

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OHgamer said:
if he's talking about Cree-Athabaska, unfinished ahistorical part that will be worked on in the near future.
Ok! Will tell him on the french speaking part of the board. :)
 

unmerged(34416)

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Sep 17, 2004
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Perhaps there's a change of tactic needed for native secessions?

Rather than have them for each country - in Canada that would mean Canada, Quebec, England and the USA at times...

Perhaps just have them fire for province owners?

At a certain date if you are civilized and you own province x and the natives still own province y, then you gain province y. The person that owns, for example, Austin gets Dallas. The event causes a receive province rather than than a secede province on the part of the natives.

Perhaps it's a little less sophisticated, but it should work. With the USA in the west (I forget the name of the first province it gets over there) it could be an event that fires for the province owner of Washington. Or it could be an American event, assuming they accepted manifest destiny that allows them to establish a colony there. If they choose not to, England gets the choice.

Just a suggestion, but it might help things along. After all it's possible for France to have an early war with England and take all of their North American possessions.
 

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Halk said:
Perhaps there's a change of tactic needed for native secessions?

Rather than have them for each country - in Canada that would mean Canada, Quebec, England and the USA at times...

Perhaps just have them fire for province owners?

At a certain date if you are civilized and you own province x and the natives still own province y, then you gain province y. The person that owns, for example, Austin gets Dallas. The event causes a receive province rather than than a secede province on the part of the natives.

Perhaps it's a little less sophisticated, but it should work. With the USA in the west (I forget the name of the first province it gets over there) it could be an event that fires for the province owner of Washington. Or it could be an American event, assuming they accepted manifest destiny that allows them to establish a colony there. If they choose not to, England gets the choice.

Just a suggestion, but it might help things along. After all it's possible for France to have an early war with England and take all of their North American possessions.

problem here is that the event would not necessarily know WHO to secede the province to....you'd still have to have 3 or 4 different versions of the events based on triggers of who owns the provinces nearby just for the historical countries so that the province goes to USA under right conditions, TEX under other conditions, ENG under a third set of conditions, CAN in a 4th Scenario and MEX in a fifth, and there really is no way you could do ahistorical countries other than have similar events for all likely potential nations. There is no event command to "cede province to neighbor X" that would be universal for whoever the owner of neighboring provinces are - you have to specify the receiving nation (this is a difference between this engine and the new engine for EU3/Rome, which IS much much much more flexible and I believe would allow such scripting. The current Victoria engine is much less flexible in that regard).

And the receiving nation would need their own event to confirm the annexation of the province. So in the end you don't reduce the number of events needed, just change (slightly) their formatting by being province events rather than country events, since even the triggers will remain roughly the same (checking who owns what province etc).
 

unmerged(34416)

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Sep 17, 2004
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Edit : I'm meaning to use the type = receiveprovince which = [province id] command on the events that fire for who ever owns a province. E.g. if you own Houston the event fires and you get a receiveprovince command for Dallas.

As an example.

Event {
id 1
random no
province 100

trigger {
owned province 101 NAT
At war no
At war NAT no
is civilized yes
OR {
Capital is New York, Chicago, London, Mexico City, Paris, Berlin, Madrid etc
}

Action A - Native land secession
Receive province 101
Cash -1000
trigger 101

Event 101

White settlers have purchased land from us
Cash 1000

Clearly not functional events. But I hope I'm a bit clearer now.

The or check for the capital isn't necessary, but it would prevent silliness like for example Hamburg grabbing a piece of mexico in a war and a domino effect of it then having piece after piece of apache land ceded to it. That way only countries who could have colonised America would get it.

If a particular nation pressed hard to get a particular province - e.g. it may be said about Dallas and Texas then put another statement in that particular event.

Or
{And capital is houston or austin
And year is 1840 or 1841 or 1842 or 1843 or 1845}
year is 1846
year is 1847
etc

That'd mean if you were Texas the event could fire in 1840 upwards, and if you were not Texas you'd have to wait until 1846

It could be used to distinguish between canadian land secession in north america and british (if they choose not to release canada). Britain could receive the land at a slower pace.
 

OHgamer

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Still will not work - and in fact would create all sorts of craziness.

in your example, you could have Dallas being given to France even if FRA has not one single province bordering Dallas The result using your system would be to create a checkerboard of ownership because the events do not check WHO has adjoining provinces in your trigger.

No, this will not work. If you want the French to have a chance to expand, you have to create a separate set of events with triggers that have FRA owning specific provinces bordering Dallas first to fire, just as exist for the USA/CAN/MEX/ENG/CSA to get each province. That is the only way, given how triggers work in Victoria, to ensure that the province will go to a nation that actually BORDERS the province, and not just randomly go to some third-party nation who has no presence in the immediate region.
 

unmerged(34416)

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Sep 17, 2004
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Erm it would work. The event to give Dallas to France would only fire if France owned Austin - or it could be set to fire only if San Antonio, Houston and Austin were owned. It'd never fire if the conditions weren't met. Unless I'm misunderstanding the triggers.