VIP - North America - Canada, Mexico, USA, + Revolters

[Panzerschreck]

would be a work of perhaps some days...

it becomes lil bit easier because you only get the cores which where cedest by the natives... just copy'n'past... but it takes time...

 

[G-Klav]

would be a work of perhaps some days...

it becomes lil bit easier because you only get the cores which where cedest by the natives... just copy'n'past... but it takes time...

Some days?
I think I could finish the work more quickly if you first answer my questions:

Which cores would Mexico and the USA have at game start?
Would UK get cores on the lands that are ceded to them?
Would the cores be added in the "Native American Land Cessation" events?
Which events would be appropiate for adding the Amercian cores on Mexico?

How should the Manifest Destiny event be reworked (no need to remove cores you don't have )?

 

[Mettermrck]

Hey all, going back through VIP again (it's been a while), and I notice the Panic of 1837 isn't always firing as it should. I realize that both the historical and hard versions of it only have a 35% chance of firing in May 1837. Otherwise, it never does. What I'm thinking is...

take "random=35" out of event 304424
change date of 304424 from May to July

This way, if the hard event (304397) fires, it sleeps the historical (304424). If it doesn't fire, then in July, the historical event does fire correctly. I think by January 1836, the Panic of 1837 was unavoidable.

Btw, I like the idea on gradual cores. Tie it to some of the wars, the Indians, etc. Is anything pursuiing development of this?

 

[tyrel68]

Hey all, going back through VIP again (it's been a while), and I notice the Panic of 1837 isn't always firing as it should. I realize that both the historical and hard versions of it only have a 35% chance of firing in May 1837. Otherwise, it never does. What I'm thinking is...

take "random=35" out of event 304424
change date of 304424 from May to July

This way, if the hard event (304397) fires, it sleeps the historical (304424). If it doesn't fire, then in July, the historical event does fire correctly. I think by January 1836, the Panic of 1837 was unavoidable.

Btw, I like the idea on gradual cores. Tie it to some of the wars, the Indians, etc. Is anything pursuiing development of this?

Welcome Back!

Sounds good on the panic event will fix it

The gradual core idea is just theory right now but it's up to the North American people to do that. OHGamer and Theodotus are the most likely suspects.

So that can probs happen after 1.04 comes out

 

[Mettermrck]

So that can probs happen after 1.04 comes out

Yeah, I saw a few forum glimmers that give hope to a possible 1.04. And seeing a VIP 0.5 is very encouraging. There's still much with the US I never got around to working on:

1) Transcontinental Railroad chain (4 possible paths)
2) Indepth Reconstruction
3) Second half flavor - 1861-1920
4) Third National Bank series - I only coded the initial stuff with the harder Panic of 1837, but never elaborated

And I feel the Indian Wars aren't given enough elaboration. Well, hopefully if the patch and mod come out, it'll give impetus to more event scripting.

 

[tyrel68]

Yeah, I saw a few forum glimmers that give hope to a possible 1.04. And seeing a VIP 0.5 is very encouraging. There's still much with the US I never got around to working on:

1) Transcontinental Railroad chain (4 possible paths)
2) Indepth Reconstruction
3) Second half flavor - 1861-1920
4) Third National Bank series - I only coded the initial stuff with the harder Panic of 1837, but never elaborated

And I feel the Indian Wars aren't given enough elaboration. Well, hopefully if the patch and mod come out, it'll give impetus to more event scripting.

Yep, I agree there.

I think we can safely say that Vickie is going to be taken to a new level soon .

I think it's going to shell shock people how much the dynamic of the game will change

P.S.
And it only took four Paradox patches and five 3rd party mod's to get it near perfection :S

 

[unmerged(19037)]

I'm playing as USA, its currently the early 1890's, and for some reason Hawaii always joins Japan, no matter how many times I reload the game they join Japan. Is it a bug, or is there a way to 'convince' them to join me.




PS: I've seen them once go with 'Pelle shall rule forever'

 

[Mettermrck]

I'm playing as USA, its currently the early 1890's, and for some reason Hawaii always joins Japan, no matter how many times I reload the game they join Japan. Is it a bug, or is there a way to 'convince' them to join me.

Looks like there are two event chains going on, the vanilla chain, which has some events like 14001-Japanese Labor, and then leads to a 4-way decision in 1893...14002-Queen Liliuokalani surrenders to foreign intereests. Annexation by the US is choice A and the trigger for the inheritance event looks ok. The VIP chain, which has a possible 1892 US annexation, looks like it already passed in your game if you've gotten to a Japan annexation.

I think the reason Hawaii goes with Japan in your game is because they picked choice B in the Japanese labor event, 'Invite them'. This sets a flag "type = local_setflag which = JAPANESE_OK value = 3 ". With this flag placed, the normal 14002 event won't trigger. 14003 triggers instead, with only two choices: Japan or independence.

 

[unmerged(19037)]

Yeah, you are right the flag is set to 3. Moreover I remember getting events concerning hawaii as the USA in my previous games(long ago), however in my current game I havent gotten any I think.

So if i chancge the flag to any other value, will it prevent them joining japan?

 

[Mettermrck]

So if i chancge the flag to any other value, will it prevent them joining japan?

You could try adjusting the value to 0 and see what that does. If you have a save before 1885, you can do that also. See if setting it to 0 helps you out...

 

[unmerged(19037)]

Nah it didn't help, set it to zero and hawaii still joins japan.

Edit: removing the flag solved it, hawaii is now american




Edit#2: Is it normal for the post civil war america to vote for third party parties? As in I havent had any of the traditional parties(democratic, republian) elected recently, their support is about 10-15%. Also isnt the republican party suppose to be liberal?

 

[Mettermrck]

Edit#2: Is it normal for the post civil war america to vote for third party parties? As in I havent had any of the traditional parties(democratic, republian) elected recently, their support is about 10-15%. Also isnt the republican party suppose to be liberal?

Which parties are winning the elections? And which parties are in existence after the Civil War? I want to make sure the correct ones (Free Soil, etc.) are gone after it.

 

[unmerged(19037)]

The current parties are: Republican Party(con) Democratic Party(con), Free Soil Party untill early 1880s(lib), Union Party(lib), Populist Party(lib), Socialist Party(socialist).

Untill 1885 the free soil party was winning all the elections, now either the Union Party, or Populist party is in power. Most of the time its the latter one. Currently their support is at 45%.

 

[JKLPirate]

Which parties are winning the elections? And which parties are in existence after the Civil War? I want to make sure the correct ones (Free Soil, etc.) are gone after it.

Pardon my jumping into this one, but I think I can help, as I had the Constitutional Union Party ruling my country from the end of the ACW until the 1880s.

Here's the ones I have problems with:

Constitutional Union Party: A product of the 1860 election, made of conservative Whigs and former Know-Nothings who wanted to preserve the Union by failing to make a stand either for or against slavery, thus pushing it out of the limelight. ACW killed it historically, and it should last no longer than the alternate-timeline peaceful emancipation of the 1870s.

Union Party: The name the Republicans took when they wooed pro-Union Democrats and border-staters (including eventual VP Johnson, a Democrat from Tennessee). Maybe a substitution for the Republicans from '64 to the end of the ACW, but nothing else.

As a side note, this party was in power during my aforementioned game right after the CU broke up. The Republicans took over, only to be unseated by the Socialists, of all parties.

Southern Democrats: Again, a creature of 1860 and the slavery issue, to be killed by the ACW on the historical path or the alternate peaceful emancipation.

Free Soil:The party petered out by 1852. At most, killed by the emancipations.

By the way (and I'm sure someone has raised this issue before), shouldn't one of the two major parties post-ACW be liberal?

 

[unmerged(19037)]

Wow thats weird, I hardly had the Const. Un. party elected ever. I'm a fairly industrialized county(6000 IND points #1 in the ranking) and I have too many liberals for a conservative party to be in power.

 

[Mettermrck]

I see that Free Soil and Constitutional Union both have sleepdates of 1881, primarily due to the fact that ACW possible date range stretches past 1865. I think what is needed is a couple events that sleep these parties if the ACW is over. Maybe checking that the CSA doesn't exist, or the US doesn't have slavery.

I note that the vanilla event #14184 (The Union Party) creates a new Republican Party that only occurs when the CSA exists. I believe it's derived from the Turtledovian party of that name. From the event text: Formed out of parts of the remains of the now defunct Republican party, the Union Party is dedicated to rebuilding the Union whatever the cost. They are strongly nationalistic and not at all above the use of military force. So the Union Party (14108) and the new Republican Party (14109) should not coexist. If anyone sees this, let me know.

A couple points I'm seeing. In the vanilla Reconstruction event 14182, choices A and C switch Republicans from the old to the new party, while Radical (choice B) keeps the old abolitionist party. Sounds good. However, VIP event 304905 (Political Realignments), which has 14182 as a trigger, activates the new party again. The only new command it brings to the picture is
command = { type = set_ruling_party which = 14109 }#Republican Party
I'm wondering if we could remove the second party switch in 304905, move the set_ruling_party to 14182 and eliminate 304905, freeing up an extra ID.

Also, vanilla Reconstruction, event 14182, probably needs a NOT = { exists = CSA } trigger just to make sure there's no Reconstruction without an ACW victory.

 

[unmerged(19037)]

Yeah something should be clearly done about it and I agree with you on your points. Also the Free soil party should be elinimated sometime before the ACW, for (historically) most of it's members joined the Republican party, actually they merged.

Another thing is, it's pretty ahistorical for me to have all those third party parties in power, so either the parties or the people are wrong .

 

[Mettermrck]

Yeah something should be clearly done about it and I agree with you on your points. Also the Free soil party should be elinimated sometime before the ACW, for (historically) most of it's members joined the Republican party, actually they merged.

Good point on Free Soil. So we can just add this:

########################
# The Republican Party #
########################
event = {
	id = 14113
	random = no
	country = USA

	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = 14110
			event = 14111
			event = 14112
		}
	}

	name = "EVT_14113_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_14113_DESC"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 10 month = july year = 1854 }

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = wake_party which = 14100 }
                [i]command = { type = sleep_party which = 14103 }[/i]
	}
}

This would only work if the Kansas-Nebraska Act triggered and thus caused the Republican party to form. If it doesn't, we can just put in a sleepdate of 1861 or 1865 for the Free Soil party.

As for the Constitutional Union Party, we can just sleep the party when the ACW triggers.

#########################################################################
#  The American Civil War
#########################################################################
event = {
	id = 14119
	random = no
	country = USA

	picture = civilwar_flags

	trigger = {
		exists = CSA
		NOT = {
			war = { country = USA country = CSA }
		}
		NOT = {
			peace_treaty = { country = USA country = CSA }
		}
	}

	name = "EVT_14119_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_14119_DESC"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1854 }
	offset = 7
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1862 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME14119A" # Declare War  
	command = { type = war which = CSA }
        [i]command = { type = sleep_party which = 14105 }[/i]
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME14119B" # Brother can't fight brother
		command = { type = prestige value = -200 } 
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 14182 } #reconstruction
                [i]command = { type = sleep_party which = 14105 }[/i]
	}
}

And like the Free Soil Party, if the ACW doesn't trigger and sleep the CUP, we can set its sleep date to 1861 or 1865.

 

[Francis II]

The current parties are: Republican Party(con) Democratic Party(con), Free Soil Party untill early 1880s(lib), Union Party(lib), Populist Party(lib), Socialist Party(socialist).

It could be that the problem is in calling these parties liberal and conservative. If I hadn't seen this breakdown, I'd have pegged the Republicans and Democrats both as liberal (in the classical American and modern European sense - what we Yanks call Libertarian). Both major American parties supported what, in contemporary Europe, would have been very liberal views - a free market, free religion, etc. Hell, the Republicans even wanted black people to vote - not that conservative, by 1800's standards.

I'd call them both liberal, and as USA industrializes, more POPs in-game will identify with them both. The elections will be decided on more narrow issues, like the degree of blacks' rights, and the tariff, as they did IRL. Let there be no conservative party at all, except possibly some revanchist party that might form if the CSA wins. Then, I think, the Democrats and Republicans will win elections in a way that duplicates more closely the real-life scenario.

P.S. In my latest game as Japan, the Free Soilers run the US into the 1870s or 80s.

 

[JRaup]

There'sone thing being over looked here. If a party is power, it doesn't get slept until it loses an election. Unless the sleeping event changes the ruling party, the slept party, if the ruling party, will remain active.