VIP - Italian States and Unified Italy

[Amadeus]

Hi HappyWlad, welcome on board.


Yes it's a known bug !

Anyway Darkrenown and Generalisimo have create a fix for it, you can find it here:http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151682
Look for Darkrenown's (unofficial) VIP 0.3 Patch

I've not tried it so far (just slept 3 hours this night)
and please look too at VIP - v0.3 Discussion & Bugs for reported bugs and comments about v0.3.

Ciao

 

[Generalisimo]

I will.
Can you read italian ?

i can "understand" it...

 

[Amadeus]

i can "understand" it...

Fine, then the link which was presented by Kliwarrior a few post above is extremely reach in articles covering almost all main historycal subjects from prehistory to nowaday indexed both by date, country and topics.

Give it a look is quite HUGE !!!
Here is the time-table: http://www.cronologia.it/mondo01.htm
and here the build-in research engine: http://www.cronologia.it/ricerca/index.html

For what concearn italian colonisation others have already answered in the thread you posted earlier.

On a different topics, Darkrenown stated you found the real reason for CTD in Italian popular unification, I've applied the fix but I' ve still get a CTD
I will post more detail on VIP - v0.3 Discussion & Bugs

In next future I would like to propose some modication to S-P geography and RGO's is this possible to discuss here ?

Thank for your attention.

 

[Generalisimo]

On a different topics, Darkrenown stated you found the real reason for CTD in Italian popular unification, I've applied the fix but I' ve still get a CTD
I will post more detail on VIP - v0.3 Discussion & Bugs

the problem is simple, look for the event that annex the new Roman Republic, instead of PAP says VEN, so you annex 2 times VEN and this ends in a CTD.
This is present in the SAR file and in the SIC file (a silly copy & paste error o ).

In next future I would like to propose some modication to S-P geography and RGO's is this possible to discuss here ?

I have modded the RGO's and industries of SAR, so they are now able to maintain their economy. The previous scheme was the usual one that GPs get, but was imposible to maintain with the little economy of SAR.
Wait to see it in action in v0.3b.

 

[Amadeus]

the problem is simple, look for the event that annex the new Roman Republic, instead of PAP says VEN, so you annex 2 times VEN and this ends in a CTD.
This is present in the SAR file and in the SIC file (a silly copy & paste error o ).

I don't know if we are taking about the same bug, my history.txt don't mention this double annexion thing.
Actually I'm playing S-P, I help LOM and VEN to win "The italian revolution" and after some monthes (1 to more then 18 in my games) I get the "The italian vote for unification" event, but unfortunately is not me (SAR) which is going to annex, but PAP which entered war few monthes before the end, not even they fought 1 battle while I was bleeding me since 5 years !!!
Anyhow I say YES at vote to be annexed by PAP and boum!! CTD
I think prestige gain mechanism is quite broke, I entered war twice.
When the italian revolution first came I was allied with both LOM and VEN, it has been a very hard and expensive fight cause A-U is allied with all germans minors and PRU !
5 years later LOM sign a peace with A-U and I'm not more at war while VEN still is
The most of my troops are inside the A-U empire, I demobilize and start getting back the regulars, then 1 or 2 monthes later LOM declare war to A-U again and they ask me join in if I don't I loss prestige if I do I'm getting nothing (maybe because I've already had ?) the PAP always join and few weeks after war end because of the italian revolution is over and the PAP is going to annex everybody.
Anyway I'm going to give a look to the files you mentioned and eventually I will start a new game from scratch.

I have modded the RGO's and industries of SAR, so they are now able to maintain their economy. The previous scheme was the usual one that GPs get, but was imposible to maintain with the little economy of SAR.
Wait to see it in action in v0.3b.

Yes that scheme is not correct at all.
Manies monthes ago I worked on a modded csv I wished to present to UnknownX for his mod before he joined VIP (where he's gone?) then my old PC have burned and I lost all my files and could not more playing too
But now I'm coming back

 

[Generalisimo]

I don't know if we are taking about the same bug, my history.txt don't mention this double annexion thing.
Actually I'm playing S-P, I help LOM and VEN to win "The italian revolution" and after some monthes (1 to more then 18 in my games) I get the "The italian vote for unification" event, but unfortunately is not me (SAR) which is going to annex, but PAP which entered war few monthes before the end, not even they fought 1 battle while I was bleeding me since 5 years !!!
Anyhow I say YES at vote to be annexed by PAP and boum!! CTD
I think prestige gain mechanism is quite broke, I entered war twice.
When the italian revolution first came I was allied with both LOM and VEN, it has been a very hard and expensive fight cause A-U is allied with all germans minors and PRU !
5 years later LOM sign a peace with A-U and I'm not more at war while VEN still is
The most of my troops are inside the A-U empire, I demobilize and start getting back the regulars, then 1 or 2 monthes later LOM declare war to A-U again and they ask me join in if I don't I loss prestige if I do I'm getting nothing (maybe because I've already had ?) the PAP always join and few weeks after war end because of the italian revolution is over and the PAP is going to annex everybody.
Anyway I'm going to give a look to the files you mentioned and eventually I will start a new game from scratch.

When i am annexed i do not get a CTD, the game just shows the GAME OVER page.
The "stupid" AI sometimes does those silly things of signing peace and then later declare war again... they shouldn't do that... but there isn't much we can do about that. LOM & VEN doesn't have specific AIs, so they shouldn't be doing that...
About the CTD, i have only seen problem in the SIC event 262020 (replace VEN with PAP) and in SAR event 253052 (the same problem).... but check if you want to see if you find something more inside there.

 

[Generalisimo]

Yes that scheme is not correct at all.
Manies monthes ago I worked on a modded csv I wished to present to UnknownX for his mod before he joined VIP (where he's gone?) then my old PC have burned and I lost all my files and could not more playing too
But now I'm coming back

It looks like UnknownX left this forum to somewhere else... i haven't seen him in a while.
About SAR, i have changed some RGO's to be able to supply their factories... and also modded the factories to be able to maintain them.
(for example the small arms factory in the beggining is a waste of money)

 

[Amadeus]

I had messed up the extration of the .rar that is o

Well I've checked and corrected the SIC file in the meantime, I've not found any similar error in PAP so far.
Later on I will give a new go to the current game, but I wish start much earlier cause I really ate to fight so hard to finally secede to PAP!
BTW in this later case I would inherit of ITA or I would simply have a game-over ?

 

[Generalisimo]

I had messed up the extration of the .rar that is o

Well I've checked and corrected the SIC file in the meantime, I've not found any similar error in PAP so far.
Later on I will give a new go to the current game, but I wish start much earlier cause I really ate to fight so hard to finally secede to PAP!
BTW in this later case I would inherit of ITA or I would simply have a game-over ?

The sequence is like this, the one with most prestige between SAR-PAP-SIC is the one that starts the "Unification Assembly"... and that is the one that will become ITA, for the rest, it is "Game Over".

 

[Amadeus]

It looks like UnknownX left this forum to somewhere else... i haven't seen him in a while.
About SAR, i have changed some RGO's to be able to supply their factories... and also modded the factories to be able to maintain them.
(for example the small arms factory in the beggining is a waste of money)

IMHO opinion the main problem is that Vanilla Vicky doesn't take in account the real geography and historical economy or at least not completly, probably for a sake of balancing ressources and factory among the main countries.

 

[Generalisimo]

IMHO opinion the main problem is that Vanilla Vicky doesn't take in account the real geography and historical economy or at least not completly, probably for a sake of balancing ressources and factory among the main countries.

The factories were distributed more or less historically... and also, there are some "packs of factories", for example, almost every GP (or posible GP) has 1 SA, 1 Ammo, 1 steel & 1 CF... this is great for countries like Prussia or France, but for countries like Sardinia or Belgium, those industries must be closed on day one to be able to survive... and that, has no sense.
So I am in a process of modding all the starting conditions of the countries...
I have already tweaked: Belgium, Sweden, Sardinia Piedmont & Two Sicilies... i am going to continue with others later...

 

[Kliwarrior]

I've given a deeper look to yours events, they seems fine to me except for 185205 "Riforme di Giolitti"

hello, after some tests I decided that the best thing is to remove any political reform from the Giolitti event. (see continually update post above)
Rational for this:

Case 1: AI .
given a monarchical Italy, after that period Italy will be (approx.)
72% CM
3% M
24 % no change (M or CM as before)
This sounds quite realistic IMHO.
In the weird case that Italy has become a Dem. or something else before that events, she will just have a couple or extra revolts, without juggling with her form of government.
Case 2: real player.
a real player can freely choose the event's outcome. More, he can jump to CM just switching the vote right.

you give a lot of social reforms, maybe you could "tune down" them a little !

more or less the same of bismark in germany, but without any prestige gain, and almost near the end of the game (1905 !!)

ciao

 

[Amadeus]

Ciao Kliwarrior,

In the weird case that Italy has become a Dem. or something else before that events...

I don't know about the AI, but in my game with VIP 0.3 as SAR, I become a democracy as soon as 1845 because of the event:
"Support our italian brothers!"
action_a = {
name = "Save our brothers!"
ai_chance = 99
command = { type = prestige value = 15 }
command = { type = constitution which = democracy }
command = { type = national_value which = liberty }
command = { type = party_system which = two_party }
command = { type = executive_designation which = parliamentarism }
command = { type = voting_rights which = wealth }
command = { type = political_parties which = right_to_ban }
command = { type = press_rights which = censorship }
command = { type = flagname which = "republic" }
command = { type = neutrality }

Also TUS and SIC have a similar effect and in case of victory against Austria you will end with a democratic republican Italy in 1850 as is the case in my current game.

About social reforms what I wonder is in the case you have already better ones the effect of your event doesn't swich them backward ?

BTW how do you like VIP 0.3 ?
A presto, Amadeus

 

[Amadeus]

Hello Generalisimo,

Thanks to your fix I've finally been able to have "the italian unification" without CTD.

It has been a very lucky day, I had only 3 Prestige points more then SIC !
But the most amazing thing is that Italian victory against AUS came with no blood at all !

This is because of The Weird War Bug(tm).
First of all Krakow declared war to AUS, then almost all german minor + PRU + the italians allies TUS, PAR, MOD and SIC joined the war against Krakow.
Second act, a few weeks later LOM and VEN were created and SIC agreed to ally with them, as I (SAR) did. So finally half of Europe it is at war against the CITY of EVIL :rofl:
Some years later the italian victory came without any fighting, neither AUS nor her former italian's provinces declared war to each others...

Maybe this event should check whether SAR and SIC are allied with Austria before to ask them to join a new one ?
I 've noticed that you wrote
command = { type = neutrality } #what is this for ?
and also
command = { type = war which = AUS }
seems not to work when already at war, too bad

Anyway I'm enjoying my best Vicky game so far !!!

PS: As you are writing new factories schemas I would like to point you out that almost all italian minor have the same ones...glass and wine, that's not bad at all, but some more difference could be interessant, also IIRC Parma et Modena they have iron RGOs (as Milan too) so they may have steel maybe.

PPS: Almost forgot about this one,
in your event id = 253036 "Support our italian brothers!" as SAR one should get a bi-partite political system
command = { type = party_system which = two_party }
but I've found myself with 5 parties
even if according to the ledger your command had triggered

 

[Generalisimo]

Hello Generalisimo,

Thanks to your fix I've finally been able to have "the italian unification" without CTD.

It has been a very lucky day, I had only 3 Prestige points more then SIC !
But the most amazing thing is that Italian victory against AUS came with no blood at all !

This is because of The Weird War Bug(tm).
First of all Krakow declared war to AUS, then almost all german minor + PRU + the italians allies TUS, PAR, MOD and SIC joined the war against Krakow.
Second act, a few weeks later LOM and VEN were created and SIC agreed to ally with them, as I (SAR) did. So finally half of Europe it is at war against the CITY of EVIL :rofl:
Some years later the italian victory came without any fighting, neither AUS nor her former italian's provinces declared war to each others...

Maybe this event should check whether SAR and SIC are allied with Austria before to ask them to join a new one ?
I 've noticed that you wrote
command = { type = neutrality } #what is this for ?
and also
command = { type = war which = AUS }
seems not to work when already at war, too bad

Anyway I'm enjoying my best Vicky game so far !!!

i have changed that event... now is AUS the one who declares war, so the war is now ONLY between AUS-KRA (because AUS is the agressor, the defensive alliances are not called).

PS: As you are writing new factories schemas I would like to point you out that almost all italian minor have the same ones...glass and wine, that's not bad at all, but some more difference could be interessant, also IIRC Parma et Modena they have iron RGOs (as Milan too) so they may have steel maybe.

Haven't thouched Parma, Tuscany & Modena... yet...

PPS: Almost forgot about this one,
in your event id = 253036 "Support our italian brothers!" as SAR one should get a bi-partite political system
command = { type = party_system which = two_party }
but I've found myself with 5 parties
even if according to the ledger your command had triggered

"Bad engine".... o ... why it does that???

 

[Kliwarrior]

I don't know about the AI, but in my game with VIP 0.3 as SAR, I become a democracy as soon as 1845 because of the event:
"Support our italian brothers!"
[...]
BTW how do you like VIP 0.3 ?

yes this is what i mean with "weird case"
No seriously, I like the "1' italian revolution" events, but I think they too often lead to anhistorical outcomes.

SAR declared war to AUS on March '48 , but it definitely wasn't a democracy (just right_vote=landed IIRC !!) . 99% of chance is too much!
I will say 95% to declare war as monarchy, 3% do nothing, 2% become a democracy and daclare war.
SIC, King Ferdinando resolved the question with the protests for an intervenction sending troops... to preside the streets of Naples!! Being a democracy? Never and ever.
Also Tuscany support was very light.

Venetian state is too big. I resctricted to 837 (Venezia) province, and not to the whole state.

Anyway Austria is so hard beated with revolts that also with this limitation there is a probability (lower that with "pure" VIP.03 ) to have an early italy

Besides this issues, yes I love VIP.3 I love tons of events (i display all of then in boxes not in game log, also for foreign states. VIPlite? not for me!!)
The new railroad cost , that is IMHO the most visible change to the game structure forces you to concentrate industries in few states, and this leads to some higher disoccupation, and i also struggle for few iron but is.. uh.. challenging
I take this oportunity to compliment to Generalissimo and all the other staff of VIP for the outstanding work.

ciao ciao

 

[Kliwarrior]

in your event id = 253036 "Support our italian brothers!" as SAR one should get a bi-partite political system
command = { type = party_system which = two_party }
but I've found myself with 5 parties
even if according to the ledger your command had triggered

Uh, no, wait: "two_party" just means that among all the parties, two of them have the biggest chance to win elections, while the other are just outsiders.

More or less as in UK and US now: there are more than two parties, but the electoral system give a realistical chance only to the two biggest .
It's "maggioritario puro" in italian I don't know the correct english political term...

ciao ciao

 

[Kliwarrior]

At least I've found the time to put in more precise terms my issues about the "Italian revolution"

SAR-253036
action_a (95%) should just give "voting_rights = wealth" (constitution issued by carlo Alberto) and start war with AUS (allied with LOM and VEN)
action_b (4%) should be "stay neutral" , prestige loss
action_c (just 1% probabiliy) become a democracy and enter war

SIC-262002
action_a (98%) should be "stay neutral"
action_b (2%) should just give "voting_rights = wealth" and start war with AUS (allied with LOM and VEN)

TUS-280007
action_a should be "stay neutral" with an "end_satellite" to loose the ties with Austria
action_b should be become democracy

After creation, LOM and VEN ( 202002 and 305002 ) should have "Irregular" army, not "Infantry"
Their creation in revolt.txt should be limited to Milan and Venice, not to the whole state (in case of Austrian war loss, AUS already releases the remaining provinces in AUS-111070)
In revolt.txt , LOM and VEN should not exist after 1855

Also, somewhere in 1848, the Pope give a declaration taking distance from all the revolter, to avoid problems with austrian catholics, this should be a prestige loss (-5 / -10) and give him a lower probability to became the lead state in the events "Vote for Unification" Without writing a new event, this could be incorporated in PAP239011, giving just +20 prestige instead of 30

SAR-253039 / SIC-262005 / PAP-239006
perhaps these events could trigger with SAR and SIC being also a CM not just democracy


just my two euro-cents

 

[Amadeus]

Hi Kliwarrior,

according to me the actual events where created in order to give a chance to italian minors other the SAR to join the Italian Revolution and finally unify Italy, at least SAR, SIC and PAP they all have this opportunity.

In my own experience this is still messed up by the intervention of PRU and german minors altogether with AUS but Generalisimo stated a few post above that he is working on this issue.

Probably from a strict historical point of view you are right, but IIMHO Vicky and VIP too, are more a balance between an alternate history path and what did actally happened.

I agree that "Con. Mon." and "Wealth voting rights" are much more adapted to the historical situation and I would like to see them in game, for the rest I wonder whether your proposals are not too much restrictive for players choosing other countries then SAR
For what is concerning LOM and VEN uprising I like to remember a great singer song: "Let's give AI a chance"...mmm or it was "peace"

I would like also to know what others players and "mon trés grand" Generalisimo they thinks about this chains of events. It seems like we're the only ones interested in debating italian VIP, can't believe this.

Just my one euro-cent, I don't have more
EDIT one hundred post !!!

 

[Kliwarrior]

I'm sorry but i cannot agree with your point. From Eu1/eu2 and now Vic, the main point is to be historical, or at least as much historical as you can inside the game.
Following this principle, the "choice_a" should always follow the historical outcomes of the events, while the "b" and "c" should be some nice and interestig "what if." Not the opposite.

If I play SICily I can decide to try to unite Italy, joining the italian revolution or just trying to conquer all the peninsula, or in any other ways, but the AI should not, or at least should do it very rarely.

Note that I don't say "Drop all the ahistorical choices" but only "Don't have them more likely to appear that the historical ones"

These events should be a chance for smart players, and for lucky AI, not "easter eggs" scattered inside the game.

It seems like we're the only ones interested in debating italian VIP, can't believe this.

just because we are italian, and other players aren't perhaps?

ciao ciao