VIP - Indian Subcontinent

[unmerged(20981)]

Read, thanks for answering

 

[Sute]{h]

the problem is the the english navy consumes manpower, so, if you do not have soldiers in Asia, you start with -400 manpower... so no refit and no new units for UK until they convert all the UK isle population to soldiers... something that doesn't have sense.
So, we had to gave soldiers somewhere to the UK, if they were in the UK isle, they are converted into craftmen/farmers on day one by the AI, so they have to go to the colonies... the best suitable place that we choose was Ceylon.

Hmm... I read somewhere what only starting navies count for manpower. If that is correct perhaps all navies should be created by starting events to work around this bug. That way Ceylon didn't have to be overpopulated with soldiers to give the UK a realistic navy.

Don't know if one can create navies by event though... though I figure the build_division command might be able to do so.

 

[unmerged(10416)]

Not possible - British India is designed solely to be loyal to the Empire and do its duty by giving up part of its wealth to Britain as a good subordinate would.

Maybe you could make a fantasy event where the bigwigs in Calcutta decide that they want to rule India by themselves...? Kind of a coup against the crown?

 

[unmerged(2246)]

Bah, all I see on these boards is people wanting Canada independent early, wanting the East India company revolting, wanting the Irish independent, etc. etc.

Fie I say!

Accept being ruled like a serf by The Empire!

 

[King Jary]

Maybe you could make a fantasy event where the bigwigs in Calcutta decide that they want to rule India by themselves...? Kind of a coup against the crown?

I like that idea

 

[Taear]

I like that idea

The thing is, the "bigwigs" are mostly based over in the headquarters of the British East India company, in London. And once the "Crown Rule" event fires off, India is pretty much just part of the UK.
Although it's a nice idea to be able to split the BEIC off, it's just totally and utterly infeasable. Just imagine having to rule all those indian subjects with about 10,000 british people. Your best bet is to take the place over as Mughalistan.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

Ok, sorry if this question is old, but I've just got VIP and I can't read through all the threads to see if its been mentioned elsewhere. Apologies.

Is there anyway to remove the horrific revolt-risks in India after the annexation of British India by Britain following the 1850s revolt? I assume its because of the nationalism increase to the revolt risk for 10 years after annexation? But whatever it is its highly damaging to the game play for the British player, as the revolt risks in the provinces seem to be continuously increasing, and basically it seems to mean that for 10 years following 1857 or whenever Britain annexes British India, the UK player has to focus all their game time on crushing Indian revolts, rather than doing anything else.

If there's no way to remove this, then I would seriously question the creation of British India at all. Although I know the historical reasons for it, if it mandates this kind of frustrating, mindless policing period following incorporation properly into the Empire, then I think it would be better to just give India to Britain at the start of the game. Historical accuracy is fantastic, but you have to give a nod to gameplay too.

It just feels a shame because otherwise I love the VIP Mod, but this is so frustrating it tempts me to return to Vanilla, which I otherwise have no wish to do.

 

[OHgamer]

Ok, sorry if this question is old, but I've just got VIP and I can't read through all the threads to see if its been mentioned elsewhere. Apologies.

Is there anyway to remove the horrific revolt-risks in India after the annexation of British India by Britain following the 1850s revolt? I assume its because of the nationalism increase to the revolt risk for 10 years after annexation? But whatever it is its highly damaging to the game play for the British player, as the revolt risks in the provinces seem to be continuously increasing, and basically it seems to mean that for 10 years following 1857 or whenever Britain annexes British India, the UK player has to focus all their game time on crushing Indian revolts, rather than doing anything else.

If there's no way to remove this, then I would seriously question the creation of British India at all. Although I know the historical reasons for it, if it mandates this kind of frustrating, mindless policing period following incorporation properly into the Empire, then I think it would be better to just give India to Britain at the start of the game. Historical accuracy is fantastic, but you have to give a nod to gameplay too.

It just feels a shame because otherwise I love the VIP Mod, but this is so frustrating it tempts me to return to Vanilla, which I otherwise have no wish to do.

Will definitely look into this. The events for the British takeover after 1857 I thought had major decreases in mil-con, but it may be that the nationalism aspect is kicking in after the event, so more may been needed via event.

 

[tyrel68]

Will definitely look into this. The events for the British takeover after 1857 I thought had major decreases in mil-con, but it may be that the nationalism aspect is kicking in after the event, so more may been needed via event.

Why don't you make India UK national provinces? This would stop any nationalism.

 

[OHgamer]

Why don't you make India UK national provinces? This would stop any nationalism.

Well then we would have to rethink the whole colonial structure that way. Currently none of the colonies except Gibraltar and Malta are considered national provinces, so if we were to make India national it would mean India (and potentially other colonies) could not be seized in colonial wars when under ENG rule. I think that would be a big problem.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

Well then we would have to rethink the whole colonial structure that way. Currently none of the colonies except Gibraltar and Malta are considered national provinces, so if we were to make India national it would mean India (and potentially other colonies) could not be seized in colonial wars when under ENG rule. I think that would be a big problem.

Firstly, I think it definitely is the nationalism kicking in. The especially frustrating thing is that, as time goes on, the revolt risk is increasing. Not sure why this is, but here's the data: for example, Dhaka, militancy is averaging about 4 per pop, with a decrease of -0.06. However with soem 30 pops or somethign does this lead to very high revolt risk? (Current revolt risk in Dhaka is 13.06% and rising). I note also that such a high population seems to mean that new pops are being added very regularly, who also have militancy 4, so would this increase the revolt risk?

Secondly, in regards to national provinces, would there not be a way to in an event make India British national territories, thus removing the 'nationalism' flag, then returnign them to be non-national territories. If the nationalism is just an applicable toggle, it might not return even if the national status of the territories is changed.

I appreciate the work that has gone into British India, its very well managed, but it does seem very unfortunate that this one problem is damaging the otherwise excellent way you've set up the game - but the ridiculous revolt risks just make the game nigh unplayable following annexation, and no British player wants to leave British India around, it removes loads of the interesting conlficts and policy Britain can make over the Indian subcontinent and its neighbours. So I'm afraid to say that at the moment, I'm playing VIP but returning India to British control from the start, but if there's a way to solve this problem that would obviously be much better.

And thanks for all the good work, other than this one problem it is still an excellent mod for me.

 

[Kamillentee]

I missed a Flag, when I got Mughalistan, I had a Flagchange from Punjabflag to another greenish one (guess thats the Mughal one), but this flag disappeard after the change to Mughalistan.

short review:
Annexed the Free States except Kalat
Fought against the BI Satellites that are relevant to become Mughalistan, one after the other and made them my Satellites....
5 years later I annexed them
Persia dowed -> Satellite
ca. 1853 (already UK, fighting against USA, Eire, no BI anymore, 75% War Exhaustion)

Annexed Kalat, got the Road to Mughal Event. Capital Lahore, UK dowed, Took Dheli, some time later I got the Mughalistan Event (Hyderabad and Mysore refused), could hold a line from Dheli to Berodha, Russia offered an Alliance I accept, so I'm in a normal and colonial war against UK .

Uk accepted peace, at 95% War Exhaustion.
Russia civilizes and satellites me, I dow them... (Bad idea because I found out that I had 100% War Exhaustion)
Russia was occupied with the British and I had to kill off Rebels (the UK too hehe)
After a while 1858 Russia offered a white Peace
I had 2 Bankrupticies too...
1845 and 1859
So now I have 1860 the lowest Prestige -900, but I'm alive and soon kicking...

 

[OHgamer]

Firstly, I think it definitely is the nationalism kicking in. The especially frustrating thing is that, as time goes on, the revolt risk is increasing. Not sure why this is, but here's the data: for example, Dhaka, militancy is averaging about 4 per pop, with a decrease of -0.06. However with soem 30 pops or somethign does this lead to very high revolt risk? (Current revolt risk in Dhaka is 13.06% and rising). I note also that such a high population seems to mean that new pops are being added very regularly, who also have militancy 4, so would this increase the revolt risk?

Secondly, in regards to national provinces, would there not be a way to in an event make India British national territories, thus removing the 'nationalism' flag, then returnign them to be non-national territories. If the nationalism is just an applicable toggle, it might not return even if the national status of the territories is changed.

I appreciate the work that has gone into British India, its very well managed, but it does seem very unfortunate that this one problem is damaging the otherwise excellent way you've set up the game - but the ridiculous revolt risks just make the game nigh unplayable following annexation, and no British player wants to leave British India around, it removes loads of the interesting conlficts and policy Britain can make over the Indian subcontinent and its neighbours. So I'm afraid to say that at the moment, I'm playing VIP but returning India to British control from the start, but if there's a way to solve this problem that would obviously be much better.

And thanks for all the good work, other than this one problem it is still an excellent mod for me.

i'll have to do some testing - it might just be better to have a blanket militancy kill event if ENG incorporates IND since it really should not be leading to any sort of nationalism. for now I guess the best thing would be for you to do as you are now and we'll see how the testing goes.

 

[Generalisimo]

*going up*

 

[redmark]

If after playing you are still not a fan of having India in the game, there is a simple way to resume direct ENG control :

A few days after you dissolve the alliance an event will pop allowing you to directly inherit IND.

Does dissolving the alliance and inheriting British India break other event sequences? Does it give immediate/huge BB? Or, is there a simple )) change a (UK) player could make prior to a new game to have British India function as a Dominion/Satellite rather than semi-independently as now (or a simple event as a choice at the start of a game)?

The main reason for asking is that the cash-events don't occur when BI is at war. A 2-year war leaves BI with £80k+ in the bank that should belong to the UK; it makes playing the UK awkward and possibly also unbalances the region. (Also an exploit for human BI players? - be at war as much as possible, low taxes to keep the pops happy easily covered by the £40k/year you can potentially save).

As the modder responsible for getting IND into the mod, I sincerely hope everyone finds the addition of IND to the game an asset to the overall mod. Please offer feedback here to improve it. And prepare for more events to be added in 0.4 for British India.

Nice work, generally impressed (as a newish Vicky player), with the reservations above .

 

[OHgamer]

Does dissolving the alliance and inheriting British India break other event sequences? Does it give immediate/huge BB? Or, is there a simple )) change a (UK) player could make prior to a new game to have British India function as a Dominion/Satellite rather than semi-independently as now (or a simple event as a choice at the start of a game)?

The main reason for asking is that the cash-events don't occur when BI is at war. A 2-year war leaves BI with £80k+ in the bank that should belong to the UK; it makes playing the UK awkward and possibly also unbalances the region. (Also an exploit for human BI players? - be at war as much as possible, low taxes to keep the pops happy easily covered by the £40k/year you can potentially save).

Nice work, generally impressed (as a newish Vicky player), with the reservations above .

In 0.4B it does break the events to conquer Panjab, Sindh and Burma if done before 1852.

The reason we went for semi-independent is because as a dominion or satellite IND would not be able to initiate wars via event, only "independent" nations can initiate wars. So to replicate India's expansion into the Indus and Irriwaddy valleys it needs to be independent

The revenue suspension is to ensure that in a war situation India can maintain its military forces to the fullest. It can be seen as an exploit for the human player to be at war constantly so we are looking at some alternatives for 0.5.

 

[redmark]

In 0.4B it does break the events to conquer Panjab, Sindh and Burma if done before 1852.

The reason we went for semi-independent is because as a dominion or satellite IND would not be able to initiate wars via event, only "independent" nations can initiate wars. So to replicate India's expansion into the Indus and Irriwaddy valleys it needs to be independent

The revenue suspension is to ensure that in a war situation India can maintain its military forces to the fullest. It can be seen as an exploit for the human player to be at war constantly so we are looking at some alternatives for 0.5.

OK, that all makes sense. Still learning the game itself, so my first game with VIP saw my economy take a hit when the money went missing for 2 years during the Opium War (my main army walked into a province with a huge Chinese army arriving at almost the same time from the opposite direction, which pretty much ended my offensive options until China decided on peace).

Thanks for the quick response .

 

[unmerged(45852)]

Independent British India?

I'm sure I'm posting this in the wrong forum, and for that I apologize in advance.

I've heard of mods that create British India as a satellite to the UK and this change reduces some of the imbalance with the great red menace. I'm still on vanilla, and not quite ready to move up to full VIP, so does anyone here know where I could find a mod that just makes this change?

 

[OHgamer]

I'm sure I'm posting this in the wrong forum, and for that I apologize in advance.

I've heard of mods that create British India as a satellite to the UK and this change reduces some of the imbalance with the great red menace. I'm still on vanilla, and not quite ready to move up to full VIP, so does anyone here know where I could find a mod that just makes this change?

PM me I can get you hooked up with the basics.

 

[Jlop985]

I annexed British India through event, and now I'm getting ungodly revolts everywhere. There is plenty of clergymen in India, and so the consciousness and militancy of the Indian pops are all at 0/0, so the Revolts must be due to nationalism. Is there any way to fix this? I was able to field 13 British divisions in 1858, and in 1863 I can only field 2! (I have 61 British divisions though)