Just remember that making factories that supply needed goods appear only later in the game might wreck WM. For instance luxury clothes or paper are needed for pop upgrades and should be around all the time.
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C.N. said:
I like this list, and it will help some of the minors stay economically viable for longer, and not be the push overs they are. Canned Food at level 2 may be an issue, it may not. Canned Food is a requirement for building any miliatry unit, so at least the majors will need this, and probably several smaller nations as well. And that's just to insure there's enough of it on the WM.
Oil rigs produce oil, duh.
But I think you need to have the tech required to get oil rigs before the events changing the RGO fire. I could be wrong though...
You definetly need the Tech for upgrades.JRaup said:Oil rigs produce oil, duh.
JRaup said:
Nearly all major and medium sized western powers start with a canned_food_factory.
JRaup said:Oil rigs produce oil, duh.
No. Oil rigs are available all the time, because when oil is found in a province it's RGO changes to an oil rig. There are no triggers for oil discoveries about tech, as there shouldn't be. Foreign companies were quick to exploit any discoveries if domestic technology level wasn't sufficent.
Fuel refineries are another matter, they shouldn't be available before the first oil event is triggered. There was a problem with this as oil discovery events happened before fuel refinery invention and oil isn't used anywhere, just fuel. This was supposed to be fixed, but I'm not quite certain what was exactly done and whether it works. If there still is a problem with this it should be easy to fix it with event/invention startdates or triggers.
C.N. said:
If canned food is thought of as preserved food, rather than just food stored in cans, then it is a very basic technology. Turning out hardtack and salted pork and such doesn't require much technology.
This may be the way to go, since canned food is necessary to the military.
We must keep the factories within the starting technologies, cause most of the products are necessary to 1) Build Factories; 2) Raise Army; 3) Raise Navy; 4) Convert Population; 5) Build Colonies.
So, we may distribute the tech around but the starting 'tech-set' of a major/middle must have the same abilities from vanilla.
The proposed change, should only affect minor and unciv in one degree or another.
And to tell the truth, in my opnion, the tech isn't that powerfull, cause the Player/AI is still restricted by $$$. The RR tech are much more powerfull than Freedom of Trade.
So, we may distribute the tech around but the starting 'tech-set' of a major/middle must have the same abilities from vanilla.
The proposed change, should only affect minor and unciv in one degree or another.
And to tell the truth, in my opnion, the tech isn't that powerfull, cause the Player/AI is still restricted by $$$.
The RR tech are much more powerfull than Freedom of Trade.
You could put CF in basic chemistry as the impetus behind canning it in the first place it to prevent contamination and spoilage.
Becephalus said:
This sounds good. It would represent such basic chemistry knowledge as the fact that salting or smoking food preserves it.
commerce_tech.txt
commerce_inventionsMOD.txt
Need only to choose the pictures and write the descriptions.
Thoughts?
EDIT: We will need to add those inventions to ALL countries which starts with the Freedom of Trade tech.
Code:
application = { # Freedom of Trade
id = 3301
name = TECH_APP_COMMERCE_4_1_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_COMMERCE_4_1_DESC
required = { }
cost = 10
time = 360
effects = {
command = { type = account_eff which = police value = 5 }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = canned_food_factory }
}
}commerce_inventionsMOD.txt
Code:
#########################################################################
# Military Industry by Pimparel
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 377
random = no
invention = yes
picture = organisation
trigger = {
technology = 3301
}
name = "Military Industry"
desc = "DESC"
style = 0
date = { year = 1836 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { year = 1920 }
action_a = {
name = "OK" # Excellent!
command = { type = activate_building_type which = ammunition_factory }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = small_arms_factory }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = artillery_factory }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = explosives_factory }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Textile Industry by Pimparel
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 378
random = no
invention = yes
picture = organisation
trigger = {
technology = 3301
}
name = "Textile Industry"
desc = "DESC"
style = 0
date = { year = 1836 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { year = 1920 }
action_a = {
name = "OK" # Excellent!
command = { type = activate_building_type which = fabric_factory }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = regular_clothes_factory }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = luxury_clothes_factory }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Woodcraft Industry by Pimparel
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 379
random = no
invention = yes
picture = organisation
trigger = {
technology = 3301
}
name = "Woodcraft Industry"
desc = "DESC"
style = 0
date = { year = 1836 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { year = 1920 }
action_a = {
name = "OK" # Excellent!
command = { type = activate_building_type which = paper_mill }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = furniture_factory }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = luxury_furniture_factory }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Base Industry by Pimparel
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 380
random = no
invention = yes
picture = organisation
trigger = {
technology = 3301
}
name = "Base Industry"
desc = "DESC"
style = 0
date = { year = 1836 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { year = 1920 }
action_a = {
name = "OK" # Excellent!
command = { type = activate_building_type which = lumber_mill }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = steel_factory }
command = { type = activate_building_type which = cement_factory }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Oiling Industry by Pimparel
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 380
random = no
invention = yes
picture = organisation
trigger = {
technology = 3301
}
name = "Oiling Industry"
desc = "DESC"
style = 0
date = { year = 1870 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { year = 1920 }
action_a = {
name = "OK" # Excellent!
command = { type = activate_building_type which = oil_rig }
}
}Need only to choose the pictures and write the descriptions.
Thoughts?
EDIT: We will need to add those inventions to ALL countries which starts with the Freedom of Trade tech.
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Salting or smoking food has been around for a long time. Basic chemistry would only tell someone why it would preserve food.Theodotus1 said:
I like this discussion, but I will need to take a deeper look at who has which techs before making any sweeping statements, although at first blush I would be inclined to suggest that the luxury clothes and luxury furniture be available sooner that the regular counterparts, given what I recall from my Art History classes about the modes of production, as the great workshops largely predate mass-produced clothing and furniture and did not mechanize until late in the nineteenth century when the middle class was sought as a market, given that the wealthy were spending more money on mechanical gagetry, men were dressing less ostentatiously and less furniture was being replaced due to fire.
I would also like to suggest that nations have an event that trigger upon this tech, as it seems to happen with less trauma than should be, given the major change that it should have. Something by which the craftsmen and capitalists are really happy, clerks and clergy really ticked off, aristocrats less so, and the rest not caring.
pimparel said:
It doesn't address the original complaint that Freedom of Trade gives too much and other early techs not enough.
pimparel said:
No we don't actually.
What would need to happen is that the inc's would have to be modified to be sure that those nations which have the required techs, and should have such capabilities have them. every one else is going to be SOL until they get the required tech, or get the invention. This will allow for a greater refinement of minor and middle powers economic capabilities, and better reflect some of the realities of the period that the current tech scheme won't allow. This shouldn't impact the majors at all, and only some minor shifts should be seen in the middle powers. But it will have a game effect in that many of the minors will now be viable for a greater period of time, and you shouldn't see several of them going bankrupt every 5-6 years. It will also slow down some of the more ahistorical land grabs by majors, and the world won't be split up by 1858 anymore.
C.N. said:
Sorry to disagree, if you have tested it, you would notice, that negative prestige countries won't have them, and also years can pass before all the inventions triggered. In one specific case, 5 years had passed, and after all, when you discover something that was already in the market, it is easier to incorporate in your economy.
Test it first, it is way better than the actal setup.
EUnderhill said:
Indeed. Precisely. And historically, armies had no need of canned food per se, but rather preserved food of whatever type. But in the game they need canned food, which therefore must be taken to represent preserved food, not specifically food put into metal cans. (Salt pork was typically stored in barrels, for example.)
Because of this link between canned food and the military in the game, canned food technology needs to be seen as separate from canning, per se. So it should be attached to a basic technology, not a level 2 tech. And basic chemistry therefore makes the most sense.
pimparel said:
Ofcourse it is better than the original setup, and of course you don't get all the factories at one time.
But, Freedom of Trade is still the number one must have tech, which was the problem the Generalissimo wanted correct.
Canning facilitated long-distance operations in a way that other preservation methods could not - less wasted space and weight, and required less fresh water be obtained (same idea as free salty snacks at a bar). Partisans do not require canned goods and IMO unless you are at a level two tech that is all that you should expect to be able to regularly field without careful planning.Theodotus1 said:
It should be the #1 must-have tech. The only real problem that I see is that it is "painless" when obtained, as each nation starting without it ought have some sort of event that triggers from this tech as per my first post in this thread.C.N. said:
Also - just because one has the capability to build new factory types does not guarantee that one will obtain the necessary machine parts to so do, nor to assure a regular supply of inputs.
EUnderhill said:
Very good point. I've had to take that into account in the industrial development event I wrote for Texas, since the historical production capacity would have required machine parts that just were not likely to be available on the WM at that time in a game. This will have to be kept in mind regarding all nations that are not GP.
Frankly, some types of goods could be produced at a factory level without the need for machine parts. Preserved food would be one example, liquor and wine would be others. Perhaps this should be addressed at some point.
EUnderhill said:
I don't remember Napoleon relying on canned goods (but I could be wrong about that). Nor have my studies of the American Civil War turned up any great dissertations on canning methods. Barrels were routinely used before cans, and were sufficient for long-distance transport and the provision of highly-evolved armies and navies.
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