Of course I knowOHgamer said:
If you need academic data
This book may be useful
"The Rise of Modern China" by Immanuel C.Y. Hsu
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If you need academic data
This book may be useful
"The Rise of Modern China" by Immanuel C.Y. Hsu
From a game mechanic perspective, a lot of the "spheres of influence" in China will have to be direct control by the outside powers, such as Port Arthur for Russia. I've tried to work around this, but it gets real messy, and very unpredictable game wise. So, in such cases, those provinces will become directly controlled by the "influencing" power.
Just from a philosophical POV, I don't like "forced immigration" events, except in cases like Australia (the exception to the rule). As we don't have a stable, or consistent way of removing the immigrant POPs by event, such attempts I think "break the game." Much like free armies for nothing, I find such immigration events to be gamey.
Just from a philosophical POV, I don't like "forced immigration" events, except in cases like Australia (the exception to the rule). As we don't have a stable, or consistent way of removing the immigrant POPs by event, such attempts I think "break the game." Much like free armies for nothing, I find such immigration events to be gamey.
2. XinJiang -east turkeastan
I think the current vip’R lacks some essential historical information abt Xinjiang. In factor,I don’t understand why VIP choose to let the west part of Xinjiang become a satellite country of China. These area has been directly dominated by Chinese generals since middle of 18th centuries and in 1759 the area is officially named as “xiyu Xingjian”, which means “the new land of west” .Xinjian has a very special relationship with Kokand-----Kokand paid tribute to Qing emperor as a symbol of submission, but in fact Kokand can also collect taxes from Muslim merchants in west part of Xinjiang. Such a strange relationship remains for a long time.
Then, since 19th century, Kokand military leaders increased their influence in West and South part of Xingjian. When China was gradually sunk during the invasion of western great powers, the Muslim living in YunNan, Gansu and Xinjiang become unstable and unsubmissive. Because of China government’s discrimination policy, in 1856, Yunnan muslim have a revolt, then in 1862, Muslims living in Gansu, shanxi, and xinjiang (which including beifangren-muslim and Uyghur muslims) claims that they will not suffer any high pressure policy from Qing government. in 1864 China lose the control of Kashgar, in one years China loses almost all part of xinjian.
In 1867 the revolt in Gansu and sanxi was cracked down by Chinese general Zuozongtang While Xinjiang was still remaining in revolt
In northern Xingjian, Uyghur revolt army controlled all essential cities . In southern part, Kokand military leaders and his follows controlled Kashgar instead of local Muslims, then they invaded and dominated the south Xinjiang. In 1867, Kokand army leader Mohammad Yaqub Beg claimed that they had founded a new muslin country which ruled the south Xingjian.
Then Kokand officials send troops to attack north Xingjian which was already dominated by local Uygur. In 1870, Urumqi fallen into Kokand’s hand. In 1876 , Zuozongtang was sent to Xinjiang in order to get the Xingjian back from Kokand’s . In 1877, Chinese army defeated almost all the Kokand’s army and Yaqub died in Kashgar( poisoned )
Foreign support:
Since 1865 Yaqub Beg has gain some support from Turk .Britain and Russia. In the same year Kokand army was defeated by Buxoro and 7000Kokand soldiers entered into Xingjian to join Yaqub. In 1871-1872 Russian army entered into north-west of Xingjian and claimed that they were to protect the area from Kokand.in 1872, Yaqub Beg signed an agreement with Russian which lowered the tariff of Russian goods to 2.5%.
In 1870, British gave him some old rifles,in 1874, quen Victoria send a letter to Yaqub Beg in ordered to reform a good relationship and restrain Russian Expansion in Central Asia.
in 1873, Turkish emperor admit the so-called “kashgar”country as an independent Muslim country which under Turk’s support and protect, Turkish also gave Yagub Beg 3000rifles and 3 offcials.
Wish for event :
In 1860, muslim revolt broke in certain provinces: Gansu ,Shanxi, Xingjian,add mil
Then triggers Uyghir revolt in Xingjian and Yaqub’s expansion ,which lead to the revolt in Xingjian.
Then we can have foundation of Kashgar country, which allows Kashgar become an independent country which has claims of all Xingjian provinces.
Then we can have several “support from Turk/Britain/Russian”,let Kashgar have some supplies from foreginors.
Then after some time, we can have event as” dangerous of Northwest”, which lead to the whole Xingjian belongs to Kashgar country and then triggers “War upon Yaqub”------which allows China enter the war with Kashigar
We can also have event such as follows:
“ troops from Kokand”, which add Cav to Yaqub and decrease Sino-Kokand relationship.
“aid from Turkish”. Add weapons to Yaqub and decrease Sino-Turkish relationship.
“agreement with Russia” decrease Sino-Russo relationship and increase Yaqub-Russo’s
:agreement with Britain” almost the same with the aforementioned one.
If China defeated Yaqub in a short time ( one year, for example)
We can have events as:
Xingjian’s Victory------mil- con- all pop in Xingjian
Military Experience ---command point increase
Reform of Xingjian’s local governmental system-------Xingjian no longer be ruled by different Manchurian lords separately, but become a provinces-----------all pop in Xingjian mil- con-
Negotiation with Russia about Xingjian
If not
We can have events for Yaqub as follows
Yaqub’s Victory-----white peace with China ,all pop’s mil/con decrease
Admit of Great powers---------Yaqub’s relationship with European Great powers increase, get some supply from westerners,
Reputation among Muslin countries----prestige and relationship with muslin countries increase a lot. Get additional weapons and cashes from Turk, get an independent guarantee from Turk
Choose between Russia and Britain--------have to choose one of the two country to be our ally, of course, we can also have an naturalized option(get independent guarantee from both side)
Event for China
Lose in Xingjian--------beifangren pop and Manchurian pop, mil+.con+
relationship with Russia .Britain.Turk decrease heavily
Prestige decrease heavily
I think the current vip’R lacks some essential historical information abt Xinjiang. In factor,I don’t understand why VIP choose to let the west part of Xinjiang become a satellite country of China. These area has been directly dominated by Chinese generals since middle of 18th centuries and in 1759 the area is officially named as “xiyu Xingjian”, which means “the new land of west” .Xinjian has a very special relationship with Kokand-----Kokand paid tribute to Qing emperor as a symbol of submission, but in fact Kokand can also collect taxes from Muslim merchants in west part of Xinjiang. Such a strange relationship remains for a long time.
Then, since 19th century, Kokand military leaders increased their influence in West and South part of Xingjian. When China was gradually sunk during the invasion of western great powers, the Muslim living in YunNan, Gansu and Xinjiang become unstable and unsubmissive. Because of China government’s discrimination policy, in 1856, Yunnan muslim have a revolt, then in 1862, Muslims living in Gansu, shanxi, and xinjiang (which including beifangren-muslim and Uyghur muslims) claims that they will not suffer any high pressure policy from Qing government. in 1864 China lose the control of Kashgar, in one years China loses almost all part of xinjian.
In 1867 the revolt in Gansu and sanxi was cracked down by Chinese general Zuozongtang While Xinjiang was still remaining in revolt
In northern Xingjian, Uyghur revolt army controlled all essential cities . In southern part, Kokand military leaders and his follows controlled Kashgar instead of local Muslims, then they invaded and dominated the south Xinjiang. In 1867, Kokand army leader Mohammad Yaqub Beg claimed that they had founded a new muslin country which ruled the south Xingjian.
Then Kokand officials send troops to attack north Xingjian which was already dominated by local Uygur. In 1870, Urumqi fallen into Kokand’s hand. In 1876 , Zuozongtang was sent to Xinjiang in order to get the Xingjian back from Kokand’s . In 1877, Chinese army defeated almost all the Kokand’s army and Yaqub died in Kashgar( poisoned )
Foreign support:
Since 1865 Yaqub Beg has gain some support from Turk .Britain and Russia. In the same year Kokand army was defeated by Buxoro and 7000Kokand soldiers entered into Xingjian to join Yaqub. In 1871-1872 Russian army entered into north-west of Xingjian and claimed that they were to protect the area from Kokand.in 1872, Yaqub Beg signed an agreement with Russian which lowered the tariff of Russian goods to 2.5%.
In 1870, British gave him some old rifles,in 1874, quen Victoria send a letter to Yaqub Beg in ordered to reform a good relationship and restrain Russian Expansion in Central Asia.
in 1873, Turkish emperor admit the so-called “kashgar”country as an independent Muslim country which under Turk’s support and protect, Turkish also gave Yagub Beg 3000rifles and 3 offcials.
Wish for event :
In 1860, muslim revolt broke in certain provinces: Gansu ,Shanxi, Xingjian,add mil
Then triggers Uyghir revolt in Xingjian and Yaqub’s expansion ,which lead to the revolt in Xingjian.
Then we can have foundation of Kashgar country, which allows Kashgar become an independent country which has claims of all Xingjian provinces.
Then we can have several “support from Turk/Britain/Russian”,let Kashgar have some supplies from foreginors.
Then after some time, we can have event as” dangerous of Northwest”, which lead to the whole Xingjian belongs to Kashgar country and then triggers “War upon Yaqub”------which allows China enter the war with Kashigar
We can also have event such as follows:
“ troops from Kokand”, which add Cav to Yaqub and decrease Sino-Kokand relationship.
“aid from Turkish”. Add weapons to Yaqub and decrease Sino-Turkish relationship.
“agreement with Russia” decrease Sino-Russo relationship and increase Yaqub-Russo’s
:agreement with Britain” almost the same with the aforementioned one.
If China defeated Yaqub in a short time ( one year, for example)
We can have events as:
Xingjian’s Victory------mil- con- all pop in Xingjian
Military Experience ---command point increase
Reform of Xingjian’s local governmental system-------Xingjian no longer be ruled by different Manchurian lords separately, but become a provinces-----------all pop in Xingjian mil- con-
Negotiation with Russia about Xingjian
If not
We can have events for Yaqub as follows
Yaqub’s Victory-----white peace with China ,all pop’s mil/con decrease
Admit of Great powers---------Yaqub’s relationship with European Great powers increase, get some supply from westerners,
Reputation among Muslin countries----prestige and relationship with muslin countries increase a lot. Get additional weapons and cashes from Turk, get an independent guarantee from Turk
Choose between Russia and Britain--------have to choose one of the two country to be our ally, of course, we can also have an naturalized option(get independent guarantee from both side)
Event for China
Lose in Xingjian--------beifangren pop and Manchurian pop, mil+.con+
relationship with Russia .Britain.Turk decrease heavily
Prestige decrease heavily
U know, I just feel that the event in Asia is too little compared to the real history. There are many essential and important event during the sunk of ancient China and rise of a westernized Japan . Every time I play as asian countries( even including Turk) I feel it is a bit empty since there are much less event as PRU,RUSSIA and Austira as
I love to play as Euroean Countries mostly because of their interesting events which can bring me back to the history
I love to play as Euroean Countries mostly because of their interesting events which can bring me back to the history
"Xinjiang" was not at the start ruled directly from China, the Uyghur begs might have recognized Chinese overlordship, but in terms of actual power on the ground the Uyghur begs were the ones controlling events in Uyghurstan, hence having the region be a satellite of China. even after the intervention in the 1870s, China's rule in the region was more based on co-opting new Uyghur leaders to administer the lands in the name of the distant emperor in Beijing rather than attempting to directly administer the region from Beijing, and by the 1890s the ability of the dynasty to control events in Xinjiang was no more than it had been before the intervention.
Hence why the Uyghur region is a satellite at the start, and really should remain so throughout the game - it's only with the PRC armies marching into the region after 1949 that truly direct Chinese rule began, ending the quasi-colonial system of indirect rule that had begun with the Qing invasion of the Uyghur lands in the eighteenth century.
there is a very good history of the region in English released about a year ago :
James Millward "Eurasian Crossroads: A History of Xinjiang" (New York:2007)
that supports very well the modelling that we have started for the region and the complex dynamics between Uyghurs and the Qing and post-Qing regimes in China proper we are planning to eventually include, of which many of your event ideas are included.
It does take time to code all these events into actual gameplay events, so it's hard to say when they will be done - if people would volunteer to code events more then we can more rapidly include them. Otherwise, the event ideals will just go onto the pile of "to do" things the main developers are planning. Proposing events is fine, but without people to turn the events into ideas, there is only so much that those of us who do know how to code events can script at any given time, and there are many dozens of countries all screaming for more events at the same time.
Hence why the Uyghur region is a satellite at the start, and really should remain so throughout the game - it's only with the PRC armies marching into the region after 1949 that truly direct Chinese rule began, ending the quasi-colonial system of indirect rule that had begun with the Qing invasion of the Uyghur lands in the eighteenth century.
there is a very good history of the region in English released about a year ago :
James Millward "Eurasian Crossroads: A History of Xinjiang" (New York:2007)
that supports very well the modelling that we have started for the region and the complex dynamics between Uyghurs and the Qing and post-Qing regimes in China proper we are planning to eventually include, of which many of your event ideas are included.
It does take time to code all these events into actual gameplay events, so it's hard to say when they will be done - if people would volunteer to code events more then we can more rapidly include them. Otherwise, the event ideals will just go onto the pile of "to do" things the main developers are planning. Proposing events is fine, but without people to turn the events into ideas, there is only so much that those of us who do know how to code events can script at any given time, and there are many dozens of countries all screaming for more events at the same time.
Andrewhl said:U know, I just feel that the event in Asia is too little compared to the real history. There are many essential and important event during the sunk of ancient China and rise of a westernized Japan . Every time I play as asian countries( even including Turk) I feel it is a bit empty since there are much less event as PRU,RUSSIA and Austira as
I love to play as Euroean Countries mostly because of their interesting events which can bring me back to the history
Well, we can only script events as our time allows, and have always depended on volunteers to script events for regions that have not had much coverage - most of Asia fits that category since most volunteers to the VIP project are more knowledgable about Western history than Asian history.
At the same time, Paradox's rapid release of three versions of Victoria in the space of 2 years (1.03C, 1.04 and Revolutions) meant that much of the VIP development time has had to be spent on balancing the dramatic economic and political gameplay changes each patch/expansion brought, which meant there was less time available to create new events.
So if players want to see more Asian events, or events for any region, it will depend on people with background in Asian history and the ability to script events to contribute them to future versions. As I said above, proposing events is one thing, but there are only a couple of people who are dedicated event writers, and almost every nation in the game could use more events, so the backlog is HUGE on event ideas. Those who propose events and can script them for testing in game thus get a fast track to having those events included, since it reduces the massive amount of work we developers have to do to get the events scripted.
And remember, the developers of VIP do all this in their free time, for no compensation. Real life does mean that time to work on the mod must be limited for the developers. And with a game as complex as Victoria:Revoltions, trying to master that complexity and channel it to more historical paths is a huge effort in itself that has to be done before more events are added. Had the 1.03C and 1.4 patches and Revolutions expansion not been so dramatically different in terms of gameplay, more time to include events would have been available. But they were very different.
It's easy to script events, really and the biggest difficulty resides not in understanding the logic of scripting, but not omitting a bracket or a quote here and there which makes the game not understand you >.>
Otherwise, the VickyWiki has all that you need.
General modding page.
List of triggers
List of commands.
Check them out, then go nose around in some event files. Write something of your own, try it out, test it. It's easy, even if time consuming, and does not require any IT or coding knowledge. At least I have none and only recently discovered that Visual Basic is not a graphic editor.
Otherwise, the VickyWiki has all that you need.
General modding page.
List of triggers
List of commands.
Check them out, then go nose around in some event files. Write something of your own, try it out, test it. It's easy, even if time consuming, and does not require any IT or coding knowledge. At least I have none and only recently discovered that Visual Basic is not a graphic editor.
Questions about Taiping
I have tried playing as the Taiping, and beyond the simple "This is too hard!" complaint, I have some comments and questions regarding them.
1. Why do Taiping have Hakka and Beifangren as their cultures? I understand Hakka, but the Taiping were based in the south, so why would they consider Northerners rather than Southerners as their brethren?
2. I have noticed that typically what happens with the Taiping events is that early on, they make only minimal headway in the south, rarely even reaching the coastline. Then, thanks to the Nian rebellion, they suddenly get some defections up north. While they can gain some of the good "captured city" events triggered from this, they cannot defend these new lands AT ALL, and as a consequence the Manchu get an easy "recapture" event or two. Maybe the Taiping should get 1 or 2 events that gain them provinces that they control, like the Juliana Republic event for the Piratini instead of only gaining provinces from Rebels?
3. The Taiping have no Officers, and thus gain zero leadership. That means they get very few of their proper leaders.
I love the new events. Keep it up!
I have tried playing as the Taiping, and beyond the simple "This is too hard!" complaint, I have some comments and questions regarding them.
1. Why do Taiping have Hakka and Beifangren as their cultures? I understand Hakka, but the Taiping were based in the south, so why would they consider Northerners rather than Southerners as their brethren?
2. I have noticed that typically what happens with the Taiping events is that early on, they make only minimal headway in the south, rarely even reaching the coastline. Then, thanks to the Nian rebellion, they suddenly get some defections up north. While they can gain some of the good "captured city" events triggered from this, they cannot defend these new lands AT ALL, and as a consequence the Manchu get an easy "recapture" event or two. Maybe the Taiping should get 1 or 2 events that gain them provinces that they control, like the Juliana Republic event for the Piratini instead of only gaining provinces from Rebels?
3. The Taiping have no Officers, and thus gain zero leadership. That means they get very few of their proper leaders.
I love the new events. Keep it up!
The officers issue was one that had been over looked. A mea culpa on that. I'll look into how it should work (either a conversion to officers, or event granted leadership).
There was a reason for Beifrangen. I just don't remember ATM what it was. Nanfrangen should also be included. Nian too. Need to dig out my notes and review them for the real answers. Probably had to do with anti-Manchu "pan-Chinese" appeals.
The AI aspects of the Taiping are still a work in progress. So the provincial transfers are a bit unwieldy ATM. As more gets done, this situation should improve dramatically.
There was a reason for Beifrangen. I just don't remember ATM what it was. Nanfrangen should also be included. Nian too. Need to dig out my notes and review them for the real answers. Probably had to do with anti-Manchu "pan-Chinese" appeals.
The AI aspects of the Taiping are still a work in progress. So the provincial transfers are a bit unwieldy ATM. As more gets done, this situation should improve dramatically.
Has anyone ever seen China get gobbled?
I just finished playing a game as Germany, and it was quite an experience. After the Boxer Rebellion event the traditional nations attacked China. The Japanese seized Shanghai and one other province, the Americans seized one province and I decided to snatch Taiwan and the 10 provinces to the South (had to go to war again for that). However, I noticed that after this, China was constantly stuck in a vicious cycle. Russia would invade, take territory, then Japan would invade, take territory, and then British India (VIP) would invade and, surprise surprise, take territory. This happened until the end of my game and China was just over half of what it once was. Has anyone ever seen the giant get wiped from the planet?
I just finished playing a game as Germany, and it was quite an experience. After the Boxer Rebellion event the traditional nations attacked China. The Japanese seized Shanghai and one other province, the Americans seized one province and I decided to snatch Taiwan and the 10 provinces to the South (had to go to war again for that). However, I noticed that after this, China was constantly stuck in a vicious cycle. Russia would invade, take territory, then Japan would invade, take territory, and then British India (VIP) would invade and, surprise surprise, take territory. This happened until the end of my game and China was just over half of what it once was. Has anyone ever seen the giant get wiped from the planet?
The Boxer Rebellion in VIP is being reworked for VIP:R 0.3. Right now it's not really working very well.
It is an understatementOHgamer said:
Royal for now you just need to live with it. It is better to play China to smack exploiters.
That can also happen in Vanilla as well, and I am not sure of the cause.
Maybe being an easy target for bullies is enough?
Maybe being an easy target for bullies is enough?
I am sorry if this has already been brought up, but I've noticed an interesting thing in China's Fengtian state. Here is a screenshot of the state's demographics at the Grand Campaign's start:
Thing is that all other regions of China that have Mongols use the "Mongol" culture tag/thing. Is the use of "Mongolian" for Fengtian intended to represent some separate mongoloid kin? Or is it just a little mistake?
After all, I do not remember seeing "Mongolian" anywhere else, so hey, it's always a free culture tag to use for something else.
Thing is that all other regions of China that have Mongols use the "Mongol" culture tag/thing. Is the use of "Mongolian" for Fengtian intended to represent some separate mongoloid kin? Or is it just a little mistake?
After all, I do not remember seeing "Mongolian" anywhere else, so hey, it's always a free culture tag to use for something else.
How come I King of Siam (Thailand) Didn't get to know anything about it!?
I would gladly like an event that invites me and i have to decide what i want to do
I have a question. I'm playing as Japan and I'm still uncivilized. My two Capitalist pops have large reserves and they're getting all of their goods, but they're not building anything. My economy is state capitalism, and looking at VickyWiki it says around 2-3 thousand iirc they should build something, but I can't bring it back up now. Did VIP change something with this?
One of my Capis has 16000 and the other has 24000
One of my Capis has 16000 and the other has 24000
Rommel35 said:
as noted in other posts, there is an exe issue for people playing certian underdeveloped nations where (I think) the .exe has the capi pops have a certain factory scheduled to be build, but because of changes in how VIP models the spread of technical knowledge early in the game, your nation can not build those factories.
At the same time, first factory for state capitalism should be built in the 4K-8K reserve range which sounds like you have.
Just to confirm, you did install everything correctly in the right order :
Victoria + Victoria 1.04 Patch + Revolutions + VIP:R 0.1 + VIP:R 0.2 + VIP:R 0.2 Patch 2'
It almost sounds as if you are playing VIP on a non-Revolutions copy of victoria, so just want to confirm you have the right installation in the right sequence.
OHgamer said:
I got the games from gamersgate, but I didn't realize I had to install the 1.04 patch before installing Revolutions. Is that right? If so then I guess I'll have to reinstall everything.
In recent games of Siam and Atjeh i noticed that the poppulation numbers of the indonesia region and indochina are somewhat smaller than i would have expected, well especially indonesia. I figure this is a balancing issue to give for ex the Netherlands not to much money from those good indonesian rgo's? the same seems to be true for Africa, wich on the whole has only something of 60 to 80 million people if im correctly in Vip. Balancing? it's a bit annoying if you play a local country that civilizes and wants to expand.
If not balancing, then possibly add some more poppulation to these colonial regions, not that i want to nudge this to high on youre priority list, just maybe something to consider for a next installment of Vip:R.
If not balancing, then possibly add some more poppulation to these colonial regions, not that i want to nudge this to high on youre priority list, just maybe something to consider for a next installment of Vip:R.