VIP? Come on guyz, rrrrr!

[unmerged(8641)]

Look I am sure those who play VIP are happy with the mod. I support the idea and appreciate the labor participants have made in its ongoing development.

But come on guyz, I would appreciate it if those of you who do play that mod would assume that unless a post indentifies the question as relating to VIP, it is instead referring to Victoria 1.03 or the basic game. I do not play VIP, and I am sure that many others who are posting do not. So if a question is asked, please try to refrain from answering it as if the questioner was playing the VIP mod, because it gets somewhat confusing.

So, I suggest that: (1) If a thread is about VIP then make that plain in either the thread title or the opening paragraph of the question/comment. (2) if you are answering as a VIP player, please qualify your answer right away as (a) you are talking about the VIP mod and not the basic or 1.03 games and (b) try to answer the question ALSO as if it were the normal game and not VIP.

Thanx.

 

[Xanthippus]

Oh... there's still a Vanilla Vicky? I didn't think anyone played that anymore...

I understand what you're saying, but that's why I always clarify by saying something akin to, "but I play VIP, so if you're using Vanilla it might be different". I agree, people should say that, it's not all that hard.

 

[Gwalcmai]

I play vanilla, so I get to give VIPers wrong answers instead. Yeah, payback!

 

[SirCliveWolfe]

I play vanilla, so I get to give VIPers wrong answers instead. Yeah, payback!

:rofl: yes, I always tend to see what the question is and taylor my answer as I play both

 

[Tavenier]

I am a fan of mods, when they are complete. But AFAIK it is finished for the GC until 1880, or something. I will DL it when it is finished. I read something about the upcoming 1.5 will be more complete.

 

[M@ni@c]

A mod is never finished.

 

[tyrel68]

A mod is never finished.

It's arguable whether CORE for HOI is even done so VIP is never going to be "finished" BUT and this is a big but, VIP 0.5 is going to be a gigantic leap for VIP and that is assured.

 

[Tavenier]

I didn't meant finished as in nothing more to enhance/improve, but I meant complete as in covering the era between 1836 and 1920.

 

[OHgamer]

I didn't meant finished as in nothing more to enhance/improve, but I meant complete as in covering the era between 1836 and 1920.

Then you will likely be waiting until around VIP 0.985 for that to happen. There is just so much material to cover, and unfortunately too few people to get all the work done. 85 years of history for over 150 separate nations, complex economic simulation, and the need to create viable alternative history lines are just a few of the things the mod is aiming for.

Of course this all depends on the definition of "done" for the era. The fact that there are few to no events for the Indian minors, the smaller Latin American nations, or in the case of VIP the African minors (although this will change in 0.5) in this period in the mod, does that mean if they are not included eventually that the mod is therefore incomplete? One can argue either way (and given my custom title, I'd tend to argue in the negative).

Mods like VIP are never finished because there is always something more that can be found missing and needs to be added to make it "complete".

 

[Tavenier]

I can imagine, yes.
But I don't feel anything missing in Vicky that makes me chose to dl VIP. The only thing is WW1 events. Or the German bb-points after 1880.
Maybe I will give it a try soon. It does change a lot of the standard things in Vicky as well, right? Like machine parts being needed for railroads and stuff like that?

 

[tyrel68]

I can imagine, yes.
But I don't feel anything missing in Vicky that makes me chose to dl VIP. The only thing is WW1 events. Or the German bb-points after 1880.
Maybe I will give it a try soon. It does change a lot of the standard things in Vicky as well, right? Like machine parts being needed for railroads and stuff like that?

The thing you have to remember is we didn't change anything just for the sake of changing it, everything went through testing and troubleshooting.

If it's only something like that that is bugging you, we can easily show you where we made the change and you can change it back.

 

[unmerged(8641)]

ok then

lol... well here I posted a thread asking for a little courtesy from VIP players regarding responses, and it devolved into a discussion of the pro's and cons of VIP use. lol Man you guys are great.

Calling Victoria basic or 1.03 "vanilla" doesn't detract from the value of the game. The problem with mods is that they often cause as many problems as they attempt to solve. I had my fill of player mods when I tried using some for other games (Europa Universalis II comes to mind). Crash-bugs galore, as well as the strangest game circumstances keep popping up.

I have read a number of VIP threads and they always seem to either be bitching about problems or submitting new wish lists of what should be done to make it a better game. Well, I think developing the mod is a fine idea, and kudos to all the people playing it.

Me? I prefer to wait for the company to modify the basic game, being something of a purist myself and assuming the developers are the game "gods" who know best what to put in a game with as few errors and crashes as possible.

So, I am glad to see some respondents are acknowledging the basic idea... make sure threads and replies are clear about whether it's VIP or the regular game being discussed. Thanks.

 

[tyrel68]

Me? I prefer to wait for the company to modify the basic game, being something of a purist myself and assuming the developers are the game "gods" who know best what to put in a game with as few errors and crashes as possible.

Firstly, I agree 100% with you. The only catch with this is that Paradox has said that they will not generally fix stuff that a mod can fix.

 

[unmerged(28057)]

>VIP? Come on guyz, rrrrr!

to be honest, if someone has the internet and register on this forum, they have acess to the the VIP download, so why not get it?

 

[unmerged(8641)]

dont read much?

>VIP? Come on guyz, rrrrr!

to be honest, if someone has the internet and register on this forum, they have acess to the the VIP download, so why not get it?

Guess you dont read all the posts above before responding? Some of us LIKE playing the so-called "Vanilla" game, despite the wimpy labeling. We don't want to play VIP because we don't agree with all the changes, additions, or deletions that those who do wish to play it accept.

Now I agree that the basic game and/or mod 1.03 needs a few adjustments to make it completely satisfying for me. I also recognize that it will never be a "perfect" game and I am happy to play it as is, hoping one or two suggestions of my own appear in mod 1.04.

However, since I play single player, I prefer to make minor "mods" of my own, like readjusting military forces or the location and size of factories in order to give some of the smaller nations I play a chance against the historical major ones. The VIP mod is available, I simply chose not to use it. I bet a majority of others don't either, at the present time.

 

[unmerged(36763)]

Calling Victoria basic or 1.03 "vanilla" doesn't detract from the value of the game. The problem with mods is that they often cause as many problems as they attempt to solve. I had my fill of player mods when I tried using some for other games (Europa Universalis II comes to mind). Crash-bugs galore, as well as the strangest game circumstances keep popping up.

Yes, and yes.

I dont even like the term "vanilla" because of the tacit implictation that there is something wrong, or at best, not quite complete about playing the game (patched to sufficiency, in the players view) as is. I play Victoria, that is what the game is called, "vanilla" is just some smear word used to make it seem as those of us who play the game the company put out are the loopy ones going about our gaming incorrectly. I say we vanilla loyalists drop the vanillia prefix and start refering to VIP as "Victoria Obese", "Victoria with a side of fries", or Victoria double-stuf".

 

[tyrel68]

I say we vanilla loyalists drop the vanillia prefix and start refering to VIP as "Victoria Obese", "Victoria with a side of fries", or Victoria double-stuf".

We prefer to call VIP a "Big Boned" Victoria

 

[unmerged(36763)]

Guess you dont read all the posts above before responding? Some of us LIKE playing the so-called "Vanilla" game, despite the wimpy labeling. We don't want to play VIP because we don't agree with all the changes, additions, or deletions that those who do wish to play it accept.

Now I agree that the basic game and/or mod 1.03 needs a few adjustments to make it completely satisfying for me. I also recognize that it will never be a "perfect" game and I am happy to play it as is, hoping one or two suggestions of my own appear in mod 1.04.

Agreed again. It is language dictating thought, vanilla is not a value neutral term, it is meant to associate the game as is with blandness and sterility. Now imagine if we instead thought up a new cutesy word for modded versions, something like, "Victoria: Overdone".
I believe it was Da Vinci who said that the key to making a great creation is to know when to finish, for me, VIP just adds and changes too much.

 

[unmerged(36763)]

We prefer to call VIP a "Big Boned" Victoria

Well, I have no problem people who use and create mods, that is all their own business. It's just we who play and prefer "vanilla" are treated as the Rodney Dangerfields of paradox, we get no respect.

 

[OHgamer]

A very interesting thread here. I know that those of us who are directly responsible for developing the mod are not in the habit of creating the sense that not using VIP makes a player "inferior" in any way. How others react on here is of course beyond our control, but I think I can speak for Generalisimo and Tyrel68 and all the other contributors to VIP when I say that while we very much hope people try our mod, we don't hold a grudge against anyone who decides they do not like it, though we do try to figure out the root of the issue and if it is something that can be customized so that the objectionable parts of the mod are not hindrances to parts that might be a welcome addition to the game for an individual player. That is one of the great things about mods, many of the elements can be modified to suit the individual taste of the player. But if in the end a player decides they don't like the mod, then that's perfectly fine with us.

At the same time, the use of the term vanilla for the unmodified version of Victoria is not a term strictly limited to Victoria, but is used in most of the Paradox game forums to distinguish unmodded from modded versions, so this isn't exactly an issue unique to Victoria. I never really considered the term vanilla as a pejorative - rather I thought of it more along the lines of "pure, unadulterated", like a good vanilla ice cream - has its own clean flavor and is defnitely not basic, but complex in its own right.

And returning to Anthony01's original post, I think the vast majority of posts on here do distinguish whether or not the question or issue they have involves the use of VIP or another mod and when it refers to Victoria unmodified. Not 100% all the time, but usually when a question is posted and it is not clear, someone will ask within a few posts whether they are using a mod or not.