VIP - Closed discussions of Old Versions

[C.N.]

We need an event policy discussion thread, to keep this one clean for bugs and problems of v0.11.

But, anyhow, since there isn't one and people already discuss such thing is this thread:
- What do you think about using forced revolts vs using militancy? Myself I would prefer to only use militancy, but it seems to me that it isn't enough in some cases.

I would really want to see some guidelines on this and other similar cases like what you discuss just now.

 

[unmerged(5323)]

We need an event policy discussion thread, to keep this one clean for bugs and problems of v0.11.

But, anyhow, since there isn't one and people already discuss such thing is this thread:
- What do you think about using forced revolts vs using militancy? Myself I would prefer to only use militancy, but it seems to me that it isn't enough in some cases.

I would really want to see some guidelines on this and other similar cases like what you discuss just now.

Depends. Ussualy militancy is less deterministic and predictable. But most of all long-term. I would say in case a revolt had a complex causes and went on for long through much territory (like a long insurgency of an ethnic minority) militancy is better. If it was short and had a direct and simple cause (Guns n` Roses fans starting a riot after Axl cancelled a concert) a forced revolt would be more precise in my opinion.

 

[cwhomer]

An idea for a solution

You are right, but that would only be a partial solution (since even if there are certainly quite a few flavor events, they aren't the majority in most countries right now, so the problem, if it ever went away anyways, would still reappear after more standard events are added-in). Still, I think it's a good idea.

Perhaps ultimately there should be two VIPS? One with all the events, and one that's stripped of unecessary flavors? Let's see how acutal performance is effected first.

 

[pimparel]

We still need the Generalisimo ruling on this, but if we gonna do it. It's better do it now than later.

I'll make an sketch on which events on PRG, URU, U00 and BRZ files are flavor or not.

 

[JRaup]

We need an event policy discussion thread, to keep this one clean for bugs and problems of v0.11.

But, anyhow, since there isn't one and people already discuss such thing is this thread:
- What do you think about using forced revolts vs using militancy? Myself I would prefer to only use militancy, but it seems to me that it isn't enough in some cases.

I would really want to see some guidelines on this and other similar cases like what you discuss just now.

I think it all depends on the given situation. for long term trouble spots, with multiple small insurrections, militancy raises is the way to go. You just never know when those dang locals are gonna get uppity. For major revolts, with even a slim chance of success, and usually spaced fairly far apart (say 15-20 years), a forced revolt can be used effectively. The thing with using militancy is that it fades over time (ie reduces). So, if you want to have a continuously troublesome area, you will need to keep giving militancy raises every so often.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

Rather than pointing to EEP, (which I thought was a disaster (and yes I do respect all the hard work people put in, I just completely disagreed with the more is better philosophy)) I would prefer to look to the AGC for guidance. There were not so many new events and they focused on improving gameplay/historicity and making the game more enjoyable (and I didn't work on AGC so I am neutral here).

I far and away prefer quality events to quantity and I am very afraid that if VIP keeps moving in the current direction I am going to have to pour through the event files every patch to delete "ship x defeats ship y events" and "krakow makes its first artillery piece get a free explosives fertilizer and artillery factory" events.

Anyway just my thoughts...I thought I would voice my support for Grosshaus' sentiments. We really should start an event philosophy thread.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

Separate post for a separate topic...before I mentioned that I was worried that the people modding POPs were not taking into account the fact that some POP bonuses are not linear. They are static and applied in full regardless of POP size. So 2 1000 CLG POPs are 2 times as good as 1 2000 CLG POP. Anyway Belgium starts out the GC with 9 CLG and 9 CAP in 9 provinces (and 2 states)...this needs to be changed. I realize that in real life the CLG and CAP were spread out and not concentrated in one place per state...but the game mechanics force us to abstract here.

Of course this whole problem could be fixed if all POP features were made linear, but Johan is probably not gong to do this.

 

[PMLF]

We still need the Generalisimo ruling on this, but if we gonna do it. It's better do it now than later.

I'll make an sketch on which events on PRG, URU, U00 and BRZ files are flavor or not.

In Paraguay only 1 or 2 are flavor as far as I remember.

 

[Theodotus1]

So maybe, this idea should be put in motion? It's aeasy to do and will be easier with this is implemented in earlier stages. It also will help with balancing and with the...
.
.
.
.
"translation costs" :rofl:

I've been contemplating this. I'll start on this with Texas and California and Deseret as soon as I finish the testing and bug fixing I'm doing.

 

[Theodotus1]

We need an event policy discussion thread, to keep this one clean for bugs and problems of v0.11.

But, anyhow, since there isn't one and people already discuss such thing is this thread:
- What do you think about using forced revolts vs using militancy? Myself I would prefer to only use militancy, but it seems to me that it isn't enough in some cases.

I would really want to see some guidelines on this and other similar cases like what you discuss just now.

I use both, depending on historical facts of the episode. If I'm looking to create a simmering long-term situation, I raise militancy. If I want to just recreate a riot, I use a revolt command. Often I use both, if history shows that to be appropriate.

 

[Theodotus1]

In Paraguay only 1 or 2 are flavor as far as I remember.

Texas has quite a few that would be considered flavor events. Mexico, on the other hand, has quite a few added events that might appear to be flavor but are not, since they are necessary to the Federalist and Reforma periods and can lead to major changes in government.

 

[Generalisimo]

Perhaps something else and Gen appointed as Ultimate Dictator (tm) to make the rulings in obscure cases.

:rofl:

 

[Generalisimo]

The idea of a having the broader events for each country in the "VIP_country" files, and the flavor events in "VIP_country_flavor" files is a good idea. While said in jest, having the files organized so that those who want can make a "VIP Lite" would be a nice thing to do.

What do we need to do to help identify what is what? What criteria makes a major event and what makes a flavor event?

As pimparel says, if there's a chance we'll do it, we should start thinking about it now.

i think this is the best idea...
moving the flavor events to:
VIP_CountryName_flavor.txt
will be the best thing to do.

Use of inheritance command
A new country is born
Provinces change hands
Constitution, FoG or national value is changed
Several political reforms are made
Event is a trigger for a major event
War is declared on another nation or peace sued
Somebody is made a satellite or satellite status is broken

those guidelines should help a lot.
Also, like Theo said, there are some events that "apparently" doesn't do anything, BUT, they are related to "future events" that will happen under certain conditions.
So, the author must establish if one event is or not a flavor one (at least in most of the cases... )
The easy ones that should be tonned down first and moved to "flavor events" are the ones that Becephalus describes here:

I far and away prefer quality events to quantity and I am very afraid that if VIP keeps moving in the current direction I am going to have to pour through the event files every patch to delete "ship x defeats ship y events" and "krakow makes its first artillery piece get a free explosives fertilizer and artillery factory" events.

i have removed a lot of that from day one, but i am sure some are still in VIP, so we need to change that...
and, if that doesn't help, we do this:

Perhaps something else and Gen appointed as Ultimate Dictator (tm) to make the rulings in obscure cases.

 

[Generalisimo]

So, as a summary, the new guideline will be:
-In the first phase of improvement the authors of the events will decide if their events are or not flavor events. They must send me the list of events that should be moved to the new file (VIP_countryname_flavor.txt) and i will copy & paste until it is done.
-In the second phase of improvement, people will be able to suggest that one event "looks like a flavor one", so the discussion with the author beggins and if the author agrees, we move the event to the new file. In case the author "dissapears" we will need to do that ourself.
-We will add a new file called "events_no_flavor.txt" that can be used instead of the current "events.txt" that doesn't have the flavor events included. People that doesn't want to see the flavor events could easilly comment the "events.txt" and remove the "#" from the new file.

I think this is the easiest way to do this.
Now, start working!... :rofl:

 

[PMLF]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before but Rockhampton (Australia) has no POPs.

 

[Windmolen]

Now, start working!... :rofl:

Well, my suggestion is that flavor events are events that have a very small effect on the course of history (like +1 research point, +0.01% literacy, +1 prestige and so on). I've structured my files/events for Holland this way (Yes, I've just split the Dutch file into a flavor and normal event file) ...

 

[unmerged(521)]

bugs

Hi all,

I do not know if these have already been found but here goes....

Henry David Thoreau fires twice for America.

The Greek Constitution fires both the origional version and a new version.

Italy's and Austria's new event chain has an Austrian event calling the wrong event number of Sardinia so Sardinia never gets the 'accept peace' event with Austria.

We did not think out the full consequences to removing cultures from Austria and Russia and thus the production of Lumber, Coal and other goods are way down because they are now producing at 50% rather than 100%.

I have played 3 games of slightly modded 1.03 and
4 games of slightly modded VIP; in that time Russia has been raped by the world in every VIP game and the production of steel and Lumber never gets going in VIP so it is no longer possible to ever purchase those goods unless you are Britain, Germany or France.

 

[Generalisimo]

Hi all,

I do not know if these have already been found but here goes....

Henry David Thoreau fires twice for America.

The Greek Constitution fires both the origional version and a new version.

Italy's and Austria's new event chain has an Austrian event calling the wrong event number of Sardinia so Sardinia never gets the 'accept peace' event with Austria.

i will check that...
about the rest, we knew that this was going to happen when we removed those cultures.

 

[unmerged(13520)]

about the rest, we knew that this was going to happen when we removed those cultures.

Well, this is probably more for the Russia thread, but I do think that they need a bit of extra help now, either through events or something else (not an expert on Russian history, so this is just a general comment....). While it's good that Russia's much weaker than in the standard Victoria, to see them breaking up into pieces/revolters in the early game isn't very good, IMHO...

 

[pimparel]

Well, this is probably more for the Russia thread, but I do think that they need a bit of extra help now, either through events or something else (not an expert on Russian history, so this is just a general comment....). While it's good that Russia's much weaker than in the standard Victoria, to see them breaking up into pieces/revolters in the early game isn't very good, IMHO...

It's not about it, they are having their behinds royaly kicked cause they don't have army techs researched by the time of Crimea War.