VIP - Closed discussions of Old Versions

[OHgamer]

Is there possibility of finding a working link to download R 0.1? I always end up at dead ends.

Will reload to host, apparently the main site got deleted. Dunno why. Hope to have up by 1730 Eastern

And the link in RELee's signature for the download (which we have linked as well in the 1st post of the main VIP:R 0.1 Discussion thread) seems to work for me.

 

[OHgamer]

This link should work

Download VIP:R 0.1 Here :

 

[RELee]

Sure. I've seen the CSA win the first ACW without player intervention. Typically, however, once the peace treaty expires, the USA will declare war against the CSA again for a 2nd ACW, and then a 3rd ACW if necessary, and will continue this process until the CSA has eventually been re-assimilated no matter how long it takes or how much must be sacrificed. The USA truly hates an ahistorical CSA existence.

More often than not, however, the CSA AI will simply capitulate to the USA in the interest of the game remaining as historic as possible, except where the player has direct control, of course.

Only CSABadass's mod breaks this behavior, I do believe.

Perhaps one day, his scripts can be integrated into VIP without causing any major miscues. We can only hope.

 

[OHgamer]

More often than not, however, the CSA AI will simply capitulate to the USA in the interest of the game remaining as historic as possible, except where the player has direct control, of course.

Correct. In cases where the CSA and USA are both AI, and a human third party nation is not actively allied to CSA, then the scripting is such that the CSA will collapse either by being over run or overextended and reaching high war exhaustion.

In either case, if the human player is not playing CSA or USA, and not actively supporting the CSA with an alliance, then the game will treat the civil war as a purely historical event with the historical outcome - CSA loses - as it is assumed the player wants a generally historical world in which to play.

If he doesn't then he needs to actively intervene in support of the CSA. We're still refining the triggers in those situations, but in the end, unless you actually help the CSA as a third power, it is going to remain in its proper historical role as a large speed bump in the road to the rise of the USA from second-string to full world power within the game.

In the end, VIP is dedicated to trying to ensure an overall historical environment. The CSA lost the Civil War, therefore to maintain a historical environment that means the CSA must not survive. if the human player of a third country wants to disrupt the weft of history and have the CSA survive when both it and the USA are AI-controlled, then make the commitment and help the CSA out by directly intervening in the war and actively participating in the military struggle. Otherwise, the historical narrative will be preserved and the CSA will be reabsorbed into the Union.

 

[RoyalArk14]

Terrific work really, and it even continues. Specifically to OHgamer, is there a thread where I can input ideas for events. Because there are quite a few events that are important, but overlooked, that I feel would give a nice flavour to VIP.

 

[OHgamer]

Terrific work really, and it even continues. Specifically to OHgamer, is there a thread where I can input ideas for events. Because there are quite a few events that are important, but overlooked, that I feel would give a nice flavour to VIP.

best place is to go to the CORE-VIP website where ViP has a whole section of forum and there are regional threads for discussing new event ideas.

 

[robou]

The Texans probably figured that the Confederates wouldn't win..

which they certainly did not. It was odd as i caught the war very early and just after an invasion of Mexico. So all my troops came swarming over the western borders, right where there were no troops. Oddest civil war i have seen.

 

[Eos]

Japan VIP-R questions

I have 2 questions about Japan in VIP, i play 0.1 with hotfixes.

1st one is about the Meji Restoration event chain, i chose all the historicalo ptions and ended up with the civil war, i won easily and i waited to get an event telling me that i get all my country back without getting any BB. Was I wrong is there an event like that? or I just have to annex them and live with the 17BB that I get if I do?

The 2nd question is about a strange message i get. When I was still a backward and uncivilized country since i didn't have any borders with anyone I thought about using the events that start a war with Annam, Cambodia and Siam to get some land. I guarantee Cambodia's independence and when Annam and Siam DOW i declare war at them. I got some land in the peace deal and i was very happy with my clever idea . After 5 years when i was still unciv I tried to DOW them again but i get this strange message that i can't because i don't have any borders with them (which I did since I had taken some of their land). Now being a civilized great power I try again to start a colonial war on Annam or Siam but i get this message about not being able to start a war with them until 1843 (the date is 1865 or something like that now). Is this a bug? anyone can help?

 

[OHgamer]

I have 2 questions about Japan in VIP, i play 0.1 with hotfixes.

1st one is about the Meji Restoration event chain, i chose all the historicalo ptions and ended up with the civil war, i won easily and i waited to get an event telling me that i get all my country back without getting any BB. Was I wrong is there an event like that? or I just have to annex them and live with the 17BB that I get if I do?

The 2nd question is about a strange message i get. When I was still a backward and uncivilized country since i didn't have any borders with anyone I thought about using the events that start a war with Annam, Cambodia and Siam to get some land. I guarantee Cambodia's independence and when Annam and Siam DOW i declare war at them. I got some land in the peace deal and i was very happy with my clever idea . After 5 years when i was still unciv I tried to DOW them again but i get this strange message that i can't because i don't have any borders with them (which I did since I had taken some of their land). Now being a civilized great power I try again to start a colonial war on Annam or Siam but i get this message about not being able to start a war with them until 1843 (the date is 1865 or something like that now). Is this a bug? anyone can help?

On the first there is no BB reduction in any events. Whether there should be is a question that could be open for discussion.

On the second, have you saved and restarted in the period since you had that first war. I've found that the engine sometimes fails to read new unciv neighbors to other uncivs immediately after a border changes (was causing an issue when ANN would conquer CAM, and then SIA would try to DoW ANN, now their neighbor, but the game engine said ANN, with the Cambodian lands, was not neighbor of SIA. Saving and restarted fixed this and SIA could then DoW). I guess the recommendation is do a save and reload, which we recommend doing every couple years in any case because the game engine after extended play tends to get 'overburdened" with all the events and calculations and loses track of things, skips triggers or commands, or fails to clear peace treaties.

 

[Eos]

Thanks it worked. I guess when it comes to computers you can always count on the good old "close and restart" solution.
As for the BB reduction I think as a general rule when a country gets back rebel land should have it, and the exception should be the opposite. But for now I can do it manually editing the saved game.

Thanks again

 

[unmerged(75702)]

Two things, first where is the humane economy event located at? The event makes no sense as to why pop growth gets reduced, if anything it should be increased. Isn't it all about lowering taxes and improving living conditions ingeneral.

Second I'm not sure if it's been mentioned since I don't remember it and this place seems to have no search functions. If playing as Texas, when the ACW breaks out the CSA still gets Texas joins the confederacy.

Oh one other thing, shouldn't the war over 54-40 if it's fought decide who gets vancouver island, and because of that British Columbia? If I understand the events right as it is now, it's completely random and the war if fought has no relevance to it.

 

[Dysken]

Two things, first where is the humane economy event located at? The event makes no sense as to why pop growth gets reduced, if anything it should be increased. Isn't it all about lowering taxes and improving living conditions ingeneral.

I believe this would reduce the necessity for large families and people would convert to a more modern style of living with only 2-3 children instead of massive battalions of offspring hailing from their loins to put it bluntly.

 

[RELee]

Even in games with Vanilla Victoria, where I would attempt to aid the CSA in her attempts at freedom, the CSA would still ultimately fall. I tried several times as Brazil to prop up the Confederacy, only to see them fold time after time.

It was rather annoying, actually.

 

[Nietzsche]

Even in games with Vanilla Victoria, where I would attempt to aid the CSA in her attempts at freedom, the CSA would still ultimately fall. I tried several times as Brazil to prop up the Confederacy, only to see them fold time after time.

It was rather annoying, actually.

An interesting thing to do, if completely A-historical, would be to have a "Mexo-American Confederation". <_<...that's right, the Mexican Empire and CSA become a single entity. Of course, some events would need to be written, and this is extremely...well, not impossible in a historical context, but highly improbable.

This, of course, is again, highly A-historic, but interesting none the less.

 

[BinomistaR-G]

A confederate empire like in Armageddon?

sounds ahistorcal but good

it would surely be a powerhouse

 

[birdboy2000]

When you do, mind posting the fixes?

(A lifelong New Englander, I wouldn't mind playing my homeland, and let's face it, rule from Boston is more palatable to the Maritimes than rule from Ottawa... but modding scares me.)

 

[Solo?]

Not really a bug, but something I was just considering. Would it be possible to script events to add to the AI's mobilization pool? Say, when they reach a certain industrial score 10 or so divisions are added to the pool?

I think someone else has already mentioned this, but, it's far too easy to industrialise at the moment. Playing as Italy it took me 4 or 5 years once the unification event had fired to fully industrialise. I really think you really ought to remove the 'support basic industry' events and make factories an arse load more expensive.

Anyway, just a couple of ideas. Great mod on the whole, keep up the good work etc.

 

[unmerged(3215)]

Naval Questions

Does the target navy size really mean the # of ships a nation is striving to build? Currently UK is at 98 DNs in the game I'm in and building 26 of them right now. France already has built 56 in this game.

Not sure what should be done. Either we accept nations with ridiculous sized navies, or we find a way to control naval growth.

If "target Navy size" does work, can it be changed throughout a game via a script or event. So that in 1914, UK might have a target navy size of 300, vs. the 600 it starts with.

Also, is there anyway to balance the type of ships that get built, like a ratio of scout-class (FR, RD, PC, CL) to "battle ships" (MW, IC, MO, PD, DN) to transports?

Oh, and I'll learn, but was wondering, is there an event for the Washington Naval Treaty? I guess that will be the ultimate "killer" of navy sizes.

 

[OHgamer]

Not really a bug, but something I was just considering. Would it be possible to script events to add to the AI's mobilization pool? Say, when they reach a certain industrial score 10 or so divisions are added to the pool?

I think someone else has already mentioned this, but, it's far too easy to industrialise at the moment. Playing as Italy it took me 4 or 5 years once the unification event had fired to fully industrialise. I really think you really ought to remove the 'support basic industry' events and make factories an arse load more expensive.

Anyway, just a couple of ideas. Great mod on the whole, keep up the good work etc.

the thing is, if we make the factories more expensive, it may f'-up the ability of the capitalists in other nations to build things for those nations that are L-F or interventionist. In the end, there is not a whole lot more we can do about factory/rail costs withouth risking having the whole system fall to pieces. Considering to took several months to find the current balance that works, that is a process I'd not relish. At this point, we have to accept that the capitalist build system makes it very, very difficult to create truly historical conditions for economic development, and certain nations will have earlier expansions than historically as a result.

And the support basic industry events really are needed to help fix really silly potential bottlenecks that might end up causing players all sort of frustrations because capitalists compute that such-ahd-such factory is not as profitable glass factory #8, meanwhile the player is ranked low enough they can not import enough of the missing good to maintain factory production elsewhere down the line.

As for the mob pool, I'll check on it, but we might have fixed the military issues for the upcoming 0.2 so that nations like Russia that seem to go into peacenik mode no longer do.

 

[OHgamer]

Does the target navy size really mean the # of ships a nation is striving to build? Currently UK is at 98 DNs in the game I'm in and building 26 of them right now. France already has built 56 in this game.

Not sure what should be done. Either we accept nations with ridiculous sized navies, or we find a way to control naval growth.

If "target Navy size" does work, can it be changed throughout a game via a script or event. So that in 1914, UK might have a target navy size of 300, vs. the 600 it starts with.

Also, is there anyway to balance the type of ships that get built, like a ratio of scout-class (FR, RD, PC, CL) to "battle ships" (MW, IC, MO, PD, DN) to transports?

Oh, and I'll learn, but was wondering, is there an event for the Washington Naval Treaty? I guess that will be the ultimate "killer" of navy sizes.

we're currently testing some ideas for 0.2, but in general the naval_size parameter causes more problems. if we were to set it too low (towards historical levels) then the human player would be able to set a target, overbuild beyond that, and sink the British navy long before the British AI knew what was happening. We're looking at ways to help slow down, yet still modernize, for the AI, but it is not an easy task.

And yes there are lines that exist to set ratios between line ships/fast ships/transports, but it appears more to be ratio to overall target size, not ratio currently existing. After studying AI behavior, it seems the AI tends to build either all the line ships it needs or all the fast ships it needs first, rather than distribute their building across the spectrum. Alas if that is the case, that would be a deep engine issue we'd not be able to tackle.

As for Washington Naval, two things work against it - 1) you can never know how many ships an AI nation will have at the exact time of firing, and if you have the game delete more units than it actually has, you get a CTD, and 2) I'm not sure we could convince the AI with a new file to completely stop building navy units afterward if they reach the historical "limits" since the AI is deep programmed to do whatever it takes to win, and racking up military score is one of the most important contributors to point.

Again similar to what I said about industry above, we can catch the broad trends of the era with VIP, but there are enough things in the engine beyond our control to make a perfectly historical naval building process just about impossible. We're still working on trying to reduce overall numbers, but there are some things that will likely never be as perfect as we want them to be in reflecting navy building in the game.