VIP - British Isles

[OHgamer]

Another point to keep in mind, outside Ulster, there was very little industrialization of Ireland in the 19th & early 20th C. If you make Irish a national culture for ENG, the AI will of course turn Ireland into an industrial powerhouse, and with V:R's capitalist system, there is no way to mod the game so that it does not industrialize areas that have national cultures.

So in the end the question is as much about game balance as anything else. ENG is already very powerful in VIP:R, would allowing it to turn the 8 million Irish at the start of the game into industrial workers really be a wise thing, given that the modding team does not have any way to control what the AI does with them once you make Irish a national culture? Especially since it is pretty much impossible to model the demographic collapse caused by the famine, making Irish national culture for ENG is really giving it a huge new power source that would make the development of Ireland in game even more ahistorical than it already is.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

I knew I was right. Hey, here's an oddball question: the RMS Titanic was built in Belfast - how is that depicted in Vicky's Irish industrial structure? Attention to detail is everthing, you know... Don't say they didn't have any industry! They built the biggest ship!

 

[Nietzsche]

Because 80+% (Edit: To be honest, not even the Unionists said they weren't Irish at this point. It was only around 1910 that the Ulster Scots/British identity was hyped up for the Unionists. Read any piece of literature, any paper, any letters from the 19th Century in Ireland, and everyone on this island will be called Irish. Even religious differences weren't that large back then) of the people did not see themselves as British at all. With high partisan activities, political activism, unrest all around, a seperate cultural identity (far different to that of the rest of Britain, Scotland and Wales were being Anglicised), seperate religious identity (after the persecution of the Irish langauge, this was superseded by religious identity, which was also persecuted). Therefore, we were different, they were trying to make us more like themselves, which then solidified our identity even more.

The Irish were certainly not British at any point. British subjects, yes, British by official documents, yes, actually British? Never.


Though I myself would prefer to see English, Welsh and Scottish POPs.

IIRC, that would just make ENG more powerful. It'd have more pops to split and grow. Not sure how that works, but it's what OHGamer said, and he's basically God here..

 

[unmerged(74473)]

Because 80+% (Edit: To be honest, not even the Unionists said they weren't Irish at this point. It was only around 1910 that the Ulster Scots/British identity was hyped up for the Unionists. Read any piece of literature, any paper, any letters from the 19th Century in Ireland, and everyone on this island will be called Irish. Even religious differences weren't that large back then) of the people did not see themselves as British at all. With high partisan activities, political activism, unrest all around, a seperate cultural identity (far different to that of the rest of Britain, Scotland and Wales were being Anglicised), seperate religious identity (after the persecution of the Irish langauge, this was superseded by religious identity, which was also persecuted). Therefore, we were different, they were trying to make us more like themselves, which then solidified our identity even more.

The Irish were certainly not British at any point. British subjects, yes, British by official documents, yes, actually British? Never.


Though I myself would prefer to see English, Welsh and Scottish POPs.

You make me laugh, Oh the Irish are beaten on all the time by the British.

Irish language was never "persecuted", Actually Welsh was but Irish was not, official documents was written in English and Irish!! Unlike in Wales where it was stickily English. So why not Welsh Culture instead of Irish? Seeing as the Welsh have been subservient for much longer by the British..By the way the word "British" is a Welsh word, It has what we would call "celtic" origins, But those scummy anglo-saxons ripped the heart and soul from these isles didn't they..

I'd love to know how culturally different the Irish are from the rest of people in the British Isles. The only major difference is that a majority of people in the republic of Ireland are roman catholics, Apart from that whats really different? Isn't it true that most people in the east of Ireland are not even Irish, They are ethnically Norse, And that they never spoke Irish in the first place but more English, Seeing as Norwegian and English are pretty much the same, And in the east coast of Ireland, You hardly find a town or city that doesnt have a Norse Background.

So who really are the Irish??????

Only in the West, In such places as Galway is Irish even spoken!! It's like North and South Wales, Isn't it.

But no the Welsh who have more Culture and National Pride than the Irishman any day of the week, Don't even get a mention do they, But oh the American IRA lovers have to have the Irish on the game.

And ohgamer could you put on your game the persecution of the Protestants in what is today "The republic of Ireland", It quite clear that the roman catholics as like seen in Croatia and many other countries are ethnic cleansers but ignored by the pro-catholic press.

Catholics are always the same, Its easy to see how they went on Crusades and slaughtered Muslims, Jewry and anyone who wasn't catholic.

 

[unmerged(74473)]

Another point to keep in mind, outside Ulster, there was very little industrialization of Ireland in the 19th & early 20th C. If you make Irish a national culture for ENG, the AI will of course turn Ireland into an industrial powerhouse, and with V:R's capitalist system, there is no way to mod the game so that it does not industrialize areas that have national cultures.

So in the end the question is as much about game balance as anything else. ENG is already very powerful in VIP:R, would allowing it to turn the 8 million Irish at the start of the game into industrial workers really be a wise thing, given that the modding team does not have any way to control what the AI does with them once you make Irish a national culture? Especially since it is pretty much impossible to model the demographic collapse caused by the famine, making Irish national culture for ENG is really giving it a huge new power source that would make the development of Ireland in game even more ahistorical than it already is.

Yeah and the Irish think they was "persecuted", Hey Irishman try looking at Victorian Britain, Let me just show you, What my city was like eh?? The irish never had it so GOOD, Working on their farms and fields.

 

[OHgamer]

This is not the place to gind axes regarding past bad blood on contemporary political situations. This thread is for the discussion of VIP mechanics and improving the game. Let's leave the extended political commentary on both sides of the "Irish Question" for the history forum or OT.

 

[noddysseus]

Irish were never regarded as national citizens in the United Kingdom.

Irish were regarded as subjects from somewhere in the 19th century, up till 1949(I think).

Thus, VIP should definitely not include Irish as national pops of Britain.

 

[unmerged(23409)]

And ohgamer could you put on your game the persecution of the Protestants in what is today "The republic of Ireland", It quite clear that the roman catholics as like seen in Croatia and many other countries are ethnic cleansers but ignored by the pro-catholic press.

Truely, it was Europe's forgotten holocaust.

Damn the catholic press and their web of lies!

 

[OHgamer]

Again folks keep the discussion to gameplay, historical discussion should go to the History forum.

 

[unmerged(88345)]

Especially since it is pretty much impossible to model the demographic collapse caused by the famine, making Irish national culture for ENG is really giving it a huge new power source that would make the development of Ireland in game even more ahistorical than it already is.

Is it not possible to simply eliminate a certain percentage of the Irish Pops (especially the farmers)? I don't know, I'm just curious,

 

[OHgamer]

Is it not possible to simply eliminate a certain percentage of the Irish Pops (especially the farmers)? I don't know, I'm just curious,

In theory one can use add_pop command with a negative number to decrease POP

However, I have never had this successfully work in my testing.

There is no delete_pop command.

One can also use decreases in Life Rating to produce a local POP decline, but it does not work to reflect any massive population decline, at most you might get a 1-2% decrease in POP levels over a year.

 

[unmerged(49861)]

In theory one can use add_pop command with a negative number to decrease POP

However, I have never had this successfully work in my testing.

It works in theory and in practice - sort of. The problem is that its effects are out of scale (the involved pop is removed in its entirety - [command = { type = add_pop which = manchu value = -0.10 where = 495 }] to a pop of 22000 will remove the lot instead of just 10000. It can potentially remove more than the requested amount, too - if the event calls -0.10 and you have one 4000 and one 8000, for example, they're both going, and if you have one 9000 and one 10000 it would I think depend on the order they're listed in game (so, the pop ID?).

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Irish were regarded as subjects from somewhere in the 19th century, up till 1949(I think).

Every UK 'citizen' is still a subject in theory.

 

[unmerged(74473)]

I think you should add the Irish onto the national culture, An you should also change the name to "Great Britain", United Kingdom is used only in modern times, During those days GB was used more than UK.

Some information of the Royal Irish

From its origins in 1689 right up to the present day the Royal Irish Regiment has been engaged in the front line of British international military engagements. The Royal Irish has played a significant role in world affairs for over 300 years from Waterloo, the Indian Mutiny and the Boer War to the battles of the Somme, Dunkirk, Normandy and Korea. More recently the 1st Battalion, The Royal Irish Regiment has been on operations in Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, the Gulf, Iraq and Afghanistan. The Regiment has a proud and distinguished record of service in several operational theatres and was recently awarded the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross by the Queen for its commitment to Northern Ireland.

If you dont change these things, How do i go about adding the Irish onto the national culture?

I think this game does its best to make Britain look small, I mean Germany and the USA by the time of 1890s are ahead of the UK every single game ive played, IN reality this was far from the truth, Then again, boche and micky Americans make these games, So its not hard to realise why that is..

 

[Earl Uhtred]

It's a conspiracy Don't tell him Paradox is a Swedish company for Christ's sake.

 

[unmerged(74473)]

hey geordie you going to answer my question :wacko:

by the way

is NOT a smiley, it is an insult. Use or expect people to feel insulted by your reply.

Can i have an apology please

 

[OHgamer]

Folks keep to the focus of the thread, if you have issues with other posters, deal with it in PM.

 

[unmerged(74473)]

Folks keep to the focus of the thread, if you have issues with other posters, deal with it in PM.

I asked a question could you answer for me??

I search in

C:\Program Files\Paradox Entertainment\Victoria\scenarios\VIPscen

And the file ENG_england

I notice it has

country = {
tag = ENG
ai = "VIP_ENGearly.ai"
capital = 255
culture = {
type = british
type = anglo_canadian
}

Do i just add the line

type = irish

so making

country = {
tag = ENG
ai = "VIP_ENGearly.ai"
capital = 255
culture = {
type = british
type = anglo_canadian
type = irish
}

 

[Alyosha]

Do i just add the line

That should do it.

 

[Tial]

hallo everybody, and thanks for the wonderful mod.

may I ask why the population of the Great Britain is not divided in english, welsh and scottish?