VIP - Benelux Nations

[unmerged(1624)]

I had a go at putting in the new Dutch events but that file is completly bug-ridden. I tried correct some to get it to work but there's far too many...can we had one which actually works please? Thanks.

 

[Windmolen]

I had a go at putting in the new Dutch events but that file is completly bug-ridden. I tried correct some to get it to work but there's far too many...can we had one which actually works please? Thanks.

Yes.

I've found some unorthodox causes to the errors. One event description was too long I had to shorten it.

Two other large errors were wrong use of quotes (using "xxx" which proved quite disasterous :rofl: )

My apologies for the inconvenience. The fixed file will be up soon!


EDIT:

The fixed file has been uploaded.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vipbenelux/

EDIT 2:

Loaded the VIP scenario 25 times now without error, so I think it's safe to say the file works

 

[unmerged(8351)]

Belgium starts the game with 9 provinces and 9 CLG and 9 CAP...while the location may be historical this is not a good idea given the game mechanics. Much better to make 1 CLG or CAP pop for each state...

 

[Caranorn]

A rump Belgium (one without Flanders) would probably have been called Brabant. Or else Wallonie.

Marc aka Caran...

 

[Windmolen]

Belgium starts the game with 9 provinces and 9 CLG and 9 CAP...while the location may be historical this is not a good idea given the game mechanics. Much better to make 1 CLG or CAP pop for each state...

Yes, that's a bit overdone. Bryaxis, do you want to fix this one?

 

[Windmolen]

Then there's another problem, which could be put in the VIP POP thread but what the heck... Whole of Southern Holland (province of Zeeland) is protestant, but should be mostly catholic. The official data I found (from the central buro of statistics, it can't be more official than this) indicates that the amount of catholic population in the Netherlands (all homeland provinces) was 38% in 1849. I think it's more than reasonable to adopt this figure for 1836 (excluding the Belgium and Luxemburg territories which holland then controls)...

 

[Bryaxis]

Yes, that's a bit overdone. Bryaxis, do you want to fix this one?

Heu... is someone could first explain to me what those acronysms means... because i've never read them before...

 

[Bryaxis]

Then there's another problem, which could be put in the VIP POP thread but what the heck... Whole of Southern Holland (province of Zeeland) is protestant, but should be mostly catholic. The official data I found (from the central buro of statistics, it can't be more official than this) indicates that the amount of catholic population in the Netherlands (all homeland provinces) was 38% in 1849. I think it's more than reasonable to adopt this figure for 1836 (excluding the Belgium and Luxemburg territories which holland then controls)...

Indeed ! Moreover, it would be very good for the United Low Countries sequence !

 

[C.N.]

Heu... is someone could first explain to me what those acronysms means... because i've never read them before...

I had the same problem.

Let's see...
CAP = Combat Air Patrol?
CLG = Cruiser, Light, Guided missile?
Nah.

How about:
CAP = CAPitalist
CLG = CLerGy

 

[Windmolen]

Bryaxis: how's it going with the United Low Countries event sequence?

I had some ideas for a Flemish dominance (capital in Brussels, main culture will be flemish and so on) in the United Low Countries, or a Dutch dominance (capital in Amsterdam, main culture will be dutch and so on)... I would really like it if you post whatever you've finished

Furthermore I had some ideas about Belgium claiming Dutch Limburg, Middelburg, Breda, Eindhoven and Luxemburg... if Belgian prestige is higher than Holland, 75% or more of Belgian citizens have jingo as an major issue (I think this can be triggered?) and Belgium has an alliance with France then Belgium get's the choice to claim the provinces I mentioned... Belgium DID claim these provinces after world war 1, France was sort of pro (but didn't want Luxemburg to go to Belgium, they wanted it for themselves), but England and U.S. were against it ... Historical outcome will be Belgium NOT annexing those provinces, and a -100 in relations between HOL and BEL. Belgium can choose to go to war over the provinces, and risk a war with HOL and ENG (but war should be highly unlikely though)....

What do you guys think?

 

[Caranorn]

Furthermore I had some ideas about Belgium claiming Dutch Limburg, Middelburg, Breda, Eindhoven and Luxemburg... if Belgian prestige is higher than Holland, 75% or more of Belgian citizens have jingo as an major issue (I think this can be triggered?) and Belgium has an alliance with France then Belgium get's the choice to claim the provinces I mentioned... Belgium DID claim these provinces after world war 1, France was sort of pro (but didn't want Luxemburg to go to Belgium, they wanted it for themselves), but England and U.S. were against it ... Historical outcome will be Belgium NOT annexing those provinces, and a -100 in relations between HOL and BEL. Belgium can choose to go to war over the provinces, and risk a war with HOL and ENG (but war should be highly unlikely though)....

What do you guys think?

Actually that's wrong. After WWI there were discussions about Luxembourg joining either Belgium or France. Accordingly a referendum was organized in which Luxembourg chose to join France. France in turn refused (I doubt that was due to British pressure). Then Luxembourg turned to Belgium and instead of annexation went for an economic union.

All of that was of course due to the severed ties with the German Empire (and in particular the dissolution of the "Zollverein" to which Luxembourg belonged). There was of course also the issue of Grand Duchess Marie Adelaide (she died soon after in a monastery) having to abdicate in favour of her conniving sister Charlotte, all of that supposedly because Marie Adelaide played hostess for some German relatives during the German occupation.

In any case, once Luxembourg got it's own dinasty there really was no chance for the country to ever give up it's sovereignty willingly (even the referendum was more oriented towards economic partnership then annexation).

The possibility of a reunion with Belgium existed only during the revolutionary periods (that is the Belgian revolution, and I assume if a revolution (in both countries) had got off the ground in 1918-19). But at those times the chances were or would have been good indeed (as I said before, during the Belgian revolution the problem was not the Nederlands, the problem was the Prussian garrison).

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: Despite some propaganda otherwise, it seems clear that Luxembourgish nationalism only appeared after the Belgian revolution (so the Luxembourgers who fought in that revolution indeed saw themselves as Belgian, likewise for the insurections during the revolutionary and napoleonic wars).

 

[Windmolen]

I understand. However, after WW1, the Belgian government did lay a claim on Dutch and Luxemburg territory (at least according to the literature I'm holding in my hand right now ). These claims were ofcourse dismissed by all Great Powers.

And I think you misunderstood me when I said that France agreed with a Belgian annexation on Luxemburg ( I think you're trying to correct me on this point, correct me again if I'm wrong ). I meant that France didn't care (i.e. sort of approved) Belgian claims on dutch territory, but disapproved any Belgian claims on Luxemburg.

Since Belgium made those claims (again, according to literature I got here at home) I think these should me moddeled through events. If Belgium is one of the winners of the Great War, they should try and claim certain parts of the Low Countries (to state it in a neutral way ), under certain conditions (jingoism, large military, high prestige) only. The other Great Powers (mostly US, GB) will object, as in real life. Belgium then has two options: forget about the claims (95% chance) or go to war with Holland (and maybe Luxemburg) with a 5% chance. The ahistorical option should lead to an intervention option for GB and USA. They both can choose to intervene on Dutch side (actively sending troops) or support them diplomatically (sending supplies or whatever) or to stay neutral.

Well, it's just an idea. If nobody likes it, then it's fine. I just thought that the mere claim (which seems to be historical) by Belgium justified for a chain of events



Anyway, I've also made some events concerning Dutch East Indies. It's all about missionary's and conversions, a grand total of 6 events for all Indonesian states (when they're FINALLY implemented in the .INC file ). They're also quite historical.. Here's one event which in this case concerns Borneo.

#########################################################################
# Missonaries in Borneo
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 177085
random = no
country = HOL


trigger = {
OR = {
owned = { province = 2299 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2321 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2322 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2324 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2323 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2300 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2336 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2338 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2339 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2321 data = HOL }
owned = { province = 2325 data = HOL }
}
}

name = "The Dutch Missions"
desc = "The Catholic Church has send out missionaries to the East Indies to educate and civilize the natives. They've asked for our support."
style = 0

date = { year = 1860 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { year = 1920 }

action_a = {
name = "Give minor financial support" #historical
command = { type = convert_pop_type which = pagan value = catholic where = 2299 when = 5 }
command = { type = convert_pop_type which = sunni value = catholic where = 2299 when = 5 }
command = { type = treasury value = -100 }
ai_chance = 90
}
action_b = {
name = "Give major financial support" #ahistorical
command = { type = convert_pop_type which = pagan value = catholic where = 2299 when = 15 }
command = { type = convert_pop_type which = sunni value = catholic where = 2299 when = 10 }
command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
ai_chance = 5
}
action_c = {
name = "We can't afford it" #very ahistorical
command = { type = prestige value = -5 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = catholic value = 1 }
ai_chance = 5
}
}

For other states (Java, Sumatra) the cost for converting natives is much higher and the amount of natives converted very low.

What do you guys think of this then?

 

[Windmolen]

I've made a new .INC file for the Netherlands

There are some several new, important changes:

- From the start Holland is ruled by the correct Party (id 7400 instead of 7200)

- Indonesia is now divided into six states instead of one
The 'new' states are: Java, Borneo, Sumatra, New Guinea, The Molucks and Sunda Islands

- Added clipper shipyard to Holland to represent wharfs in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Zwolle and Friesland (I've just put it in Holland for convenience).

- Reworked OOB (order of battle) for Holland

This includes:

- Added colonial infantry division to Batavia, which stands for the
East Indies Army, formed by Governor-General Van den Bosch in 1830

- Reworked Dutch Navy to have historical names and size

Download it from the files directory at the VIP Benelux site



I've also completed research on historical naval names for Holland. I think they will be included by Schnee in his unit mod.. but before that happens, you can download them from the site and copy/paste them into the unitnames.csv ....

 

[unmerged(16290)]

I just installed VIP and especially the Dutch events etc yesterday. And I must say that playing Victoria with them is great fun .

It seems to me that playing with the Netherlands has also become a bit easier now. I don't know what causes this, but it is easier to make some money and spend it on nice things. Therefore it has also become easier (maybe to easy?) to colonize new areas. I have played till 1860 now and I have been able to acquire some colonies in Africa already. When I played the normal Victoria this was much harder.

But I have also a few other suggestions/comments:

• In the VIP event description file there is a small typo. For the Belgian Independance event is now reads:
  
  EVT_1505_DESC;After aggressive diplomacy from the Western powers Vilhelm I of the Netherlands are forced to recognize Belgian independence, effectively ending the civil war.;;;;;;;;;;X
  
  Of course this should be Willem I and not Vilhelm I. So I think it should be something like this:
  
  EVT_1505_DESC;After aggressive diplomacy from the Western powers Willem I of the Netherlands is forced to recognize Belgian independence, effectively ending the civil war.;;;;;;;;;;X
  
• The event that triggers the war with Bali in 1848, would it not be better to allow the player some choice here? I my case the declaration of the war cost me more prestige then I gained at the end of the war by annexing them. So in the end it was negative for my prestige and if I had the choice I would never have done the attach myself.
  
  Is this event based on some historical event? I did a quick search on the hisotry of Bali and I found that after they claimed the wreck of the fregate Overijsel (there is an event for this already, this event reduces the relation between the Netherlands and Bali), the Dutch send 5 expeditions to Bali (between 1846 and 1906) . Is this event meant to represent these expeditions?
  
• The reclaiming land from the sea event shows this description:
  
  After years of hard labour, the Haarlemmermeerpolder has been reclaimed from the Zuyderzee
  
  I think the Haarlemmermeerpolder was not reclaimed from the Zuiderzee, but from the lake, the Haarlemmermeer. So would it not be more accurate to write something like this:
  
  After years of hard labour, the Haarlemmermeerpolder has been reclmaimed from the Haarlemmermeer.
• I like it very much that the Dutch East Indies have now been split into a couple of provinces. But would it not be better to name the province that is now called The Molukkes Celebes? The biggest island that is part of this province is the island of Celebes (and it also contains the most land).

I hope these suggestions help, but also without them I already enjoyed the game a lot more .

 

[Windmolen]

I just installed VIP and especially the Dutch events etc yesterday. And I must say that playing Victoria with them is great fun .

It seems to me that playing with the Netherlands has also become a bit easier now. I don't know what causes this, but it is easier to make some money and spend it on nice things. Therefore it has also become easier (maybe to easy?) to colonize new areas. I have played till 1860 now and I have been able to acquire some colonies in Africa already. When I played the normal Victoria this was much harder.

Hmm, I haven't changed any economy files or something, but maybe this is caused by other VIP files?

But I have also a few other suggestions/comments:


In the VIP event description file there is a small typo. For the Belgian Independance event is now reads:

EVT_1505_DESC;After aggressive diplomacy from the Western powers Vilhelm I of the Netherlands are forced to recognize Belgian independence, effectively ending the civil war.;;;;;;;;;;X

Of course this should be Willem I and not Vilhelm I. So I think it should be something like this:

EVT_1505_DESC;After aggressive diplomacy from the Western powers Willem I of the Netherlands is forced to recognize Belgian independence, effectively ending the civil war.;;;;;;;;;;X

I'll check it

The event that triggers the war with Bali in 1848, would it not be better to allow the player some choice here? I my case the declaration of the war cost me more prestige then I gained at the end of the war by annexing them. So in the end it was negative for my prestige and if I had the choice I would never have done the attach myself.

I'll add some prestige gain to the event

Is this event based on some historical event? I did a quick search on the hisotry of Bali and I found that after they claimed the wreck of the fregate Overijsel (there is an event for this already, this event reduces the relation between the Netherlands and Bali), the Dutch send 5 expeditions to Bali (between 1846 and 1906) . Is this event meant to represent these expeditions?
[/qupte]
Yes, actually, I've just begun working on a new event chain. What you where playing was just one event. In the new chain there'll be several events.

The reclaiming land from the sea event shows this description:

After years of hard labour, the Haarlemmermeerpolder has been reclaimed from the Zuyderzee

I think the Haarlemmermeerpolder was not reclaimed from the Zuiderzee, but from the lake, the Haarlemmermeer. So would it not be more accurate to write something like this:

After years of hard labour, the Haarlemmermeerpolder has been reclmaimed from the Haarlemmermeer.

Ah yes, thanks

I like it very much that the Dutch East Indies have now been split into a couple of provinces. But would it not be better to name the province that is now called The Molukkes Celebes? The biggest island that is part of this province is the island of Celebes (and it also contains the most land).

Yes, I know, but it isn't possible as far as I can tell. Paradox has designed the game to have Java, Sumatra, The Molucks, Sunda, Borneo and New Guinea, but not Celebes/Sulawesi I was really disappointed at this, because it's very ahistorical.

I hope these suggestions help, but also without them I already enjoyed the game a lot more .

Every suggestion I recieve helps and it's great that you liked the events!

 

[unmerged(16290)]

Hmm, I haven't changed any economy files or something, but maybe this is caused by other VIP files?

Yes, I also expect that it is caused by VIP in general. It was just something I noticed.

Yes, I know, but it isn't possible as far as I can tell. Paradox has designed the game to have Java, Sumatra, The Molucks, Sunda, Borneo and New Guinea, but not Celebes/Sulawesi I was really disappointed at this, because it's very ahistorical.

Ah, because everything was in one province at first I had the impression that you did create the other five yourself. But they were already included by Paradox? Guess we just have to live with it then, altough it would be very cool to have Celebes as well of course .

 

[Windmolen]

Yes, I also expect that it is caused by VIP in general. It was just something I noticed.



Ah, because everything was in one province at first I had the impression that you did create the other five yourself. But they were already included by Paradox? Guess we just have to live with it then, altough it would be very cool to have Celebes as well of course .

Since you're the first Dutch player who've tested my events (and gave feedback) : were you missing something? Did I leave out something important?

Also, if you have some suggestions for new events, post 'em

 

[unmerged(16290)]

I must say that I don't have a very deep knowledge of Dutch history in this period of time (especially for the Dutch East Indies), so I only know the general trend and not all specific details. But I will do some thinking about other events to would be nice. And it also gives me an opportunity to learn some nice things about the history of the Netherlands again .

Also I have only come to 1860 in my game at the moment, so I might find some extra things when I continue. I will come back here if I have other suggestions of course.

I have one suggestion already. Would it not be nice (maybe as an option) to have some events from a change in the monarch? So when Willem II, Willem III, or Wilhelmina rises to the throne that you get a message to show you this? I know that it does not add much to the game (I don't think you will gain much prestige or anything with it), but I think it would a nice extra to know who your king/queen is at the moment .

 

[Generalisimo]

Well, if it is too easy for Holland now, it is because of the events for Benelux that you have downloaded, since we didn't change any economy files and we didn't touch the Benelux nations.

 

[unmerged(16290)]

I will try to start a game without VIP (and the Benelux events) again and see if it is harder then. Maybe it was just my imagination that it was easier now (or I have learned to play the game better in the meantime) . I will report back if I have found something.