VIP - Benelux Nations

[Bryaxis]

Memnoch,

About the international position about a unified Belgium... Is it possible that, if a nation as relation of more than 50 with both Belgium and Netherlands prior to the fusion, she is pleased ( + 25 or + 50 in relations ) and if less than 50 in relations with one or both of the two Low Countries then the relations with the new nation go real bad ( like -100 ) ?

 

[unmerged(23618)]

its possible, but i'm not entirely sure about triggering one event for multiple nations at once without writing multiple events .. which means that would require adding another 16 or so events (just for the great powers) just for a simple reaction which could easilly be based on what would have happened .. simply because most things happen exactly that way in the game. belgium and france are always friendly, same with the UK .. netherlands has low relations with france and so on. its because of the protect, befriend, combat values in the ai files so what is the point of checking for all these things when we can simply include a second option in the event allowing a player to choose the ahistorical course. this is just how events are written, so my question still stands.

we need some kind of semi-historical backlash for a 'what if' event that branches from a completely historical timeline, and we know when the break happens (in the F-P war) .. what happens between that and this that allows for this ahistorical chain to actually happen? and what happens after? and what do people think? .. most of what i see in this thread are posts one way or the other about IF this COULD have happened. well now we're saying it could have happened, so lets flush this thing out a bit and make it interesting instead of just a bunch of purchases or a simple revolt event.

perhaps it does only need a relations hit, but if so then who and how much and where. I don't know much about the history of this part of the world but this entire idea seems silly if there is no downside if for no other reason then simply game balance issues.

 

[Bryaxis]

Memnoch,
as I've already written to you when we discussed the preliminary elements of this chain, she has to begin before 1868, date of the Luxembourg crisis between the prussian and the frenchs, and of Luxembourg independance. But I'm not sure the chain will alwais have come as far as the fusion event in 1870... ( I rembember the chain to everyone : playing Belgium : Belgium buying Luxembourg, then Limburg ( Maastricht ) then Zeeland ( Middleburg ) then dutch Brabant ( Breda and Eindhoven ) then unification ; playing Holland : militancy of a POP more than 5 before the death of Willem II triggering choice to overthrow him, then proposition to belgium to unite ).

Thus, after long thinking, I think the best would maybe be to create an event where, if the United Low Countries is created, a choice is given between : Pro-prussian, Pro-French, Pro-British, Neutral. each of those giving different modifications to the relations...

What do you all think of this, people ? Please answer, since after all it's you who'll (hopefully ) play the game with those events !

 

[Bryaxis]

Hi evrybody ! Here comes the first events, as promised : 40 working ones, 5 not working ones ( because we are waiting for a tag for Congo and I've not gotten the new political parties files... ( Memnoch ? )

They are two files : the original flavor_bel.txt ( one event has it's date changed ) and another one with the event written by Memnoch and documented and commented by myself.

Hope you'll like those political ( flemish movement, suffrage evolution, war on education,...) economical ( safety regulations, worktime limits, ... ) and other events.

http://users.skynet.be/persis/histoirebelge/flavor_bel.txt

http://users.skynet.be/persis/histoirebelge/vip_bel1.txt

Good game !

 

[Bryaxis]

Hi everybody !

First, let me remember you that we are waiting for your comments on thoses firsts events posted this night. We hope you enjoy them, but we know that you might want to suggest some changes. So please DO IT so that we can make them better !

The other thing I wanted to tell you today was that I got a book, published in Oxford in the 1970's covering all the Low Countries from 1780 to 1940... I started to read it, it will take some time ( the book is a good 800 pages strong... ), but from what I saw it will give us lot's of new events for the three countries !

So please stay tuned, it is not because I'm not posting new listings of events that work is stopped on the Benelux section of the VIP program !

 

[pimparel]

First, let me remember you that we are waiting for your comments on thoses firsts events posted this night.

You used in 117011 the command command = { type = tariff_eff value = -5 }, I think that it's misused, cause tariff_eff, is applied to what came in through customs, it is a import tax, and in the description is seem like a general tax.

And there is some events that tottaled command = { type = education_modifier value = x } to 7 and in this *** Very Important *** All Events Writters Please Read And Discuss This, we agreed to make certain command only temporarily

And in the Congo event command = { type = make_dominion which = U02 } already have a prestige gain for making it dominion. Again in 117037, inheritance of Congo.

This trigger NOT = { reform = { type = maximum_workhours level = 14h/day } }, I am not sure, but I think that you maust define to the reforms above this one or use the trigger checking if the reform is none.

The event 117036, reduce the work_hour_eff is superflous, it is already coded in the maximum_workhours.

But it is just my 2cents opinion.

 

[Bryaxis]

Thank you for your comments, Pimparel.

About event 117011 : the situation in Belgium at that time had come back one century earlier, when they were customs taxes at the entrance of every town, province, bridge, and so on. That law suppressed those, destroyed any internal border there was. It meant less money for the state ( who took some of the taxes recolted, having some taxe points inside the country ) and the towns. It is why I thought a lowered tariff efficiancy might be needed.

About education : two things here : first, the belgian population grows too slowly and the intellectual situation of the time was not well shown in Vic. Belgium, altough much smaller, was able to stay on a par with Britain and France in industrial and commercial technologies. The boosts those events gives ( and take away... look closely ! ) are there to simulate this. The second thing they do is, when funding is to maximum, give Belgium her right litteracy in 1890, at around 80. It does not mean everybody could read Voltaire at that date, no, but 80% of the population was able to read the newspapers.

About Congo : in the current situation, there is no Congo. Thus no gain. But, more important, the prestige of Belgium due to Congo was huge. And they are events that lower it... The currently posted Congo events are the old chain, and most of those have now been reworked, with many more possibilities for the player and the IA to change the way things went... So I suggest we keep those events as long as we don't have the new chain.

about the social reform trigger and workhour efficiancy : I leave that to the coder, Memnoch...

Thanks for your comments !

 

[Spruce]

And will a united Belgium Netherlands be able to stay clear from the WW1? Wasn't Belgium invaded for Tactical battlefield reasons?

the Belgians were struck with a German ultimatum =

"we have very recent information that the French will attack us via Belgium".

Give us military access and all debts will be refunded after the war - with a possibility to join the alliance,

So the choice was either to join the French, either to join the Germans,

there was never a chance the Belgians could remain neutral, the ultimatum was a set up and was decided at least a week earlier by German command,

so indeed there's a chance the Belgians join the Germans - if France would dow Belgian afterwards,

the chance is real because there has never been much love from Belgian towards France, but the same could be said for Germany,

 

[Spruce]

Bryaxis and forum members,

I've found some juicy information for VIP =

some events about Belgium purchasing colonies or financing colonial ventures, I'll give more info later,

an event about Willem I marrying a Belgian catholic aristocracy - having a symbolic option to re-unite the Netherlands

1) either by reconciling the catholics with the king re-enacting the kingdom of the Netherlands - so Belgium taking it's fortunes with the Netherlands - fearing a French assimilation over time,

2) the Dutch rising up against Willem for this lack of vision - ousting him from rule and make a proposal to the Belgian people to form a democratic liberal confederation,

does it get somebody's vote, please feel free to comment, I'll give later this information later this night,

greetz

 

[Bryaxis]

Spruce : We just came around the same intel at the same time ! I indeed read it in Kossman's book just before falling asleep last night. It is, I think a good event to help rise the dutch militancy up to 5 to launch the dutch proposition of reunification... But I think the Belgian chain of event to reunite the Low Countries should stay separate... The king marrying the catholic woman ( wich happenend in 1840 ) should give a +50 or + 100 relations between the two countries in order to make sure the buying lands and reunite lands sequence launch.

I'll post here the discussion Memnoch and I have been having privately on Congo and Reunification sequences, thus you'll all have a better image of what we are thinking about ( do not forget that you all have the right and duty to say what you think of all this ! It is not a Bryaxis or/and Memnoch project but a collective action ! We wait for your opinions ! )

 

[Spruce]

the facts and the possible events

1840 = Dutch king Willem I abdicates after he marries the Belgian Catholic Countesse Pauline d'Oultremont,

effect = firing a sequence of events that have a possibility to re-unite the Netherlands. The choices are = Willem gives up reign yes/no (yes results = "Netherlands has turned liberal - asks Belgium to unite economical powers, Belgium responds with yes/no") (no results in "Netherlands monarchy opens the door for Catholic Belgium, Belgium responds with yes/no"),

1840 = French investor Gabriel Julien Ouvrand and king Leopold propose to buy the Filipines colony from Spain,

effect = yes/no option to buy the Filipines from Spain. yes result = "the Belgium goverment agrees to buy the Filipines, Belgium has become to crowded", effect = relation increase with France, costs a lot of money, Belgium gets Filipines. no results = "no we fear the unknown, priorities are not abroad", effect = small prestige loss, militancy increased for clergy and capitalists,

1841 - 09 november = the Louise Marie sails for Guatemala with member of the Belgian goverment and representatives of the Compagnie Belge de Colonisation. They intend to make a prospection of the provinces Vera-Paz and Santo-Thomas to colonise them. The offer came from the Englisch company of farmers-traders of the east coast of central america,

have a yes/no option, I hope there are some UK provines in the area (Belize) to buy them?

1842 - 16 july = Belgium and France sign an important trade agreement. The biggest impact will be that the French protectionist policy will result in an improvement of the Belgian export to France of Vlas and hennep. Belgium will decrease taxes on French wine and silk,

have a yes/no option = yes = means much better relations between both countries giving both of them a cash bonus as economy fared very well from this liberalisation. no = means revolts in some Belgian and French areas with increase in consc. and militancy in some states,

1844 march = Belgian colony in Guatemala Santo-Thomas needs additional funds! Some 1000 Belgian colonists have constructed a church, held elections but are in need of additional funds! Should we support them?

yes = prestige +5 and increase life rating in the colony to 40,
no = prestige -5 and the colony is handed over to another country,

1844 september = Belgian signs a treaty with the German Zollverein. Many believe the deal is too harsch on Belgium, but additional markets have become available as a good link has been established between Antwerp and the Rhein region. France disapproves the treaty with all force,

??? I don't know if this should be a yes/no event???

yes = prestige +5 and improve relations with Prussia tremendously, relations with France drop,

no = relations with Prussia drop, revolt in some Belgian provinces, relations with France improve,

1846 9 september = Belgium rejoices when the first telegraph line on the European continent is installed. The line has been placed between Antwerp-Mechelen-Brussels railroad and an Englisch company will be responsible for the exploitation,

effect = prestige +3 and a cash bonus-the many telegrams were an income for the state,

1847 7 november = Marx and his Assemblée démocratique are preparing for the battle. In Brussels, Marx has gathered many people to spread the communist ideas. One of them, shoe repairer Kats - a good speaker - has been spreading the Flemisch idea in the provinces. Should we react to this bunch of communists?

yes = if there is a restriction on public meetings, the results is an increase for Flemisch consc. If there is no restriction on public meetings, some revolts should spawn in Brussels,
no = consc. for ALL labourers in Belgium increases,

1848 4 march = Van Haverbeke has signed a pact with Lamina - chief of the Naloes (Guinea-Buisseau) - to build a colony and claim the area from Rapass to Victoria. The Belgian promiss to help the chief to tackle internal troubles with tribes,

effect (if the claim is still open )= Belgium gains a claim in the area, this costs nothing Van Haverbeke exploited the bad situation Lamina was in so he got the land for the yearly of only 1000 franks,

1850 5 may = National bank of Belgium starts with a capital of 25 MIO franks. The Bank will issue bank notes and will try to avoid monetary crisises like we have known during the last 2 years =

effect = ?

1851 = february 23 = Willemsfonds in Gent has been founded. The organisation supports and stimulates Flemisch cultural and social evolution. Both catholic and liberal tendencies are present in the organisation. They aim at the lower half of the middle class, but also having attention for the lowest classes,

effect= consc. for Flemisch +2 or +3

ps = dunno if this event already exists, could be so,

please give feedback, all events proposed are based on historical facts, some event results may be a bit exagerated,

 

[Spruce]

oh and Bryaxis, I would like to see Flemisch culture for farmers, labourers and craftsmen in the North French provinces, the Northern ones must have a majority of Flemisch people,

this would compare with history and would be an incentive for Belgium to be at war with France and getting something usefull for both Flandern and Wallonia

 

[Bryaxis]

Spruce : Thanks for the ideas Spruce ! Some of them are already in the first released events ( national bank, Willemsfonds ) but other ones like the pre-congo colonisation attempts are not and are good stuff. I'll come back in detail about each of them in a minute.

But before that, about northern France flemish culture : they belong to the VIP French area of responsibility. So, if that team accept, then we might propose them to give belgium some claims on her southern neighbour. Yet I'll have to check a bit deeper to see if Leopold ( I or II ) was ever interested in those regions...


1840 : Belgium/Netherlands union : The idea of reuniting the 2 countries is a fiction, and thus I think it must stay very hard to get such an union. In 1840, the Orangists had disapeared in Belgium, there where no more opposition to the idea of independant Belgium inside the country. Thus the decline of the Unionisme political system. So, the mariage and abdication of king Willem I must not makes a fusion very easy. It is why I think the mariage and a Willem leaving the trone must be the conditions ( 2 choices here ) for the Dutch to propose reunification. If those conditions are not met, the dutch won't ever be able to propose unification anymore. If there is a proposition, then Belgium must be asked if yes or not she wish to unifie with the Dutch, and the % of a positive answer must be low ( 25% ? ). And the Belgian reunification chain must have for bases the same conditions ( mariage + abdication of Willem ) but only to lauch the buy then propose unification sequence bacause, from herselve, belgium would never have proposed reunification so early. Thus the Buy and reunite sequence must take place between 1840 and 1869/70 ( the prusso-french luxembourg crisis and the prusso-german war made the situation much different, with Luxembourg going independant and Germany would not have accepted a new strong state on her border... )

I'll come back on the pther events latter, I've got to let you...

 

[Bryaxis]

Ok, I'm back, so here I continue commenting Spruce events ideas :

1840 (2) Philippines event : here we must take into account the danger of a small prestige loss for Belgium : we don't have much prestige at start ( 6 only ) and the "political assassination" is often a real problem for the country...

1841 : there is indeed Belize... the idea is good. Does the "add pop" command work ? because this event would need to add some flemish and or walloon to the region...

1842 : ok

1844 (1) : guatemala : good idea... but we need to make the cost felt ! a money loss perhaps, or some stockpiles...

1844 (2) : treaty with germans : ok

1846 : ok

1847 : ok

1847 : only if the claim is availlable

1850 : already in

1851 : already in

Ok, I think I've finished the list ! Comments anyone ? Or may I add them to the "to do" list ?

 

[Spruce]

other events to ad =

1853 march 12 = Russia acknowledges the Belgian state. After a military reform that limited the power of Polisch officers enlisted in the Belgian army, Moskow recognised the Belgian state. Before this date there was few sympathy for the Belgian cause,

effect = if Netherlands dow Belgium before this date, the Russian automatically will join the war (forge alliance) and this event fires,

the event also fires at 12 march 1853 and improving the relations dramatically between both nations, giving the Belgians a bonus of 3 diplomats, 3 prestige, but costs some money (like 5000 £), the installment of the ambassador costed 61 667 francs,

1852 = 9 december = the duke of Bassano - French envoy - and Henri de Brouckère sign a trade treaty. The succesfull negotiations turned the stressfull situation between France and Belgium. Belgium had harboured many former French revolters that had staged a coup in France, one of those exiled was Victor Hugo. De Brouckère has made a law that forbids the mocking of foreign rulers,

event = make a law that forbids mocking of foreign rulers. Results = consc. for liberals and anarcho liberals changed +3, relations with France +100, prestige -3, cash +5000,

event = don't make the law, prestige +3, relations with France -100, cash -5000,

some events will come up later,

greetz

 

[Spruce]

new events

1856 may 7 = Belgium has to make some difficult decisions. On 14 march 1856 Alphonse Nothomb let a vote pass to consider criminal acts against a foreign ruler as an act of common law. By doing this Nothomb will allow the nation to deliver criminals to foreign regimes. In 1855 Belgium wasn't able to deliver 2 criminals to the French justice. Those criminals were involved with an assassination attempt on Napoleon III. On 7 may, Villain XIII Belgian minister of foreign affairs has countered French demands to make the Belgian press less liberal. The minister has supported ongoing freedom of speech in Belgium for the coming years,

support Nothombs plan, don't support Villain XIII = result = relations with France +150, set to state press, prestige -3

support Nothombs plan, support Villain XIII's plan = relations with France +10,

don't support Nothombs plan, support Villain XIII's plan = relations with France -150, prestige +3,

1860 1 february = Jean Lenoir - a former Walloon labourer - is now recognised as a great inventor. He has taken a patent on a motor based on gas combustion. The combustion is electrical controlled,

effect = result prestige +3,

1861 19 october = Leopold I meets the Dutch king in Liege. The rulers meet for the first time after the Belgian independence to affirm their improved relations. Mutual intrest has brought good fortune to both countries =

event goes for both Belgium and Netherlands = relations with Belgium/Netherlands +150, cash = +10.000,

1862 = Leopold, Chazal and Brialmont warfleet is sunk by liberals. The liberals voted to dismantle the Belgian warfleet and by doing this, sinking the earlier plans to join a French-Britisch expedition to China to found a colony on the banks of the blue river. The Liberals prevailed by saying "We need to invest our money in the continental trade",

event = support the warfleet = cash = -30.000 and gain 4 warships and 2 transports, prestige +3, buying rights from the Chinese goverment to found a European settlement, relations with France and UK +50,

event = don't support the warfleet = cash +15.000,

1863 12 november = Jewisch diamand trader Jacob Karsman left a Brussels court room together with his lawyer Vuylsteke because he was forbidden to hold his defense in Dutch. The court has found Karsman guilty without pleeing his case and has asked a much higher sum of money as punishment. Such punishments were frequently in those days,

event = effect = consciousness Flemisch +2,

1865 september 23 = the Zenne disappears in Brussels. The Zenne, the river running trough Brussels, has received a roof on top to allow the construction of momumental walls - like has happened in Paris. The project requires huge amounts of resources, coming from both the capital and the state treasury. The project has one major glitch = the responsible Britisch project developer needs to build living quarters to harbour the poor Brussels souls that will be chased from the city,

event = we will support the whole project, including the quarter for the poor people = cash -30.000, prestige +10, revolt risk in Brussels -2% during the next 5 years,

event = we won't support constructing the poors quarter = cash -10.000, prestige +3, revolt risk in Brussels +5% during the next 5 years,

1865 may 22 = Negotiations with Prussia about a free trade agreement. The Prussians acting on behalf of the Zollverein have established a free trade agreement with Belgium,

event (both for Prussia and Belgium) = cash =+10.000, relations +150, can we play with the tariff ledger to simulate the free trade on the both countries?

so these are my proposals up to 1866, greetz

 

[Spruce]

bump

it seems Bryaxis is celebratint the end of the exams,

 

[Bryaxis]

LOL ! No, have no fear, I hadn't time to celebrate because I've got to work on some research about greek wine in the 6th, 5th and 4th centuries BC... I'll have to give the result of my research in early march, in an oral presentation in front of three or four Professors, two poeples currently writting for their Ph. D. and some 30 students sitting for their degrees... thus I'm a bit nervous and try to make it look as good as it can ! And this come alongs with other commitments ( like publishing some 25 pages on my website this night ). But I'm not forgetting this program, I'll comment you newest proposition before the end of the next week and publish at the same time a list of all the currently proposed and planned events ( both those you and all the others proposed and those I thought about ). If Memnoch could contact me too, it would be nice... because without him, the programm will be all but halted ( I begin to know what to do to script easy events, but for chains about the union or Congo... That's another problem ! ). Or is there anybody else who can script ?

By the way, are there more comments about the already scripted and published events ?

 

[Spruce]

LOL ! No, have no fear, I hadn't time to celebrate because I've got to work on some research about greek wine in the 6th, 5th and 4th centuries BC... I'll have to give the result of my research in early march, in an oral presentation in front of three or four Professors, two poeples currently writting for their Ph. D. and some 30 students sitting for their degrees... thus I'm a bit nervous and try to make it look as good as it can ! And this come alongs with other commitments ( like publishing some 25 pages on my website this night ). But I'm not forgetting this program, I'll comment you newest proposition before the end of the next week and publish at the same time a list of all the currently proposed and planned events ( both those you and all the others proposed and those I thought about ). If Memnoch could contact me too, it would be nice... because without him, the programm will be all but halted ( I begin to know what to do to script easy events, but for chains about the union or Congo... That's another problem ! ). Or is there anybody else who can script ?

By the way, are there more comments about the already scripted and published events ?

sorry to inform you that I've also very little time, I didn't try the already proposed events,

my only issue is that I'm only gone up to 1865 so I guess I'll need to select more,

good luck at your defense there, been there also and have also suffered the same thing. When I defended it, it was a bloody hot day in may!

 

[Modern Angel]

Constant CTDs with events

Hey guys. I downloaded the new events and they look really good, but I'm having a serious issue.

I've fired up a new GC as Belgium and gotten as far as November, 1843. At that point, one of the events causes a CTD. I know it's one of the events because the little fanfare which signals an event plays and then... poof... I'm back at my desktop.

I'm not much of a coder, so I don't know what the conflict is. Thoughts? I'm also running the VIP South America events.