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Apr 6, 2002
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Additional Serbian events

Let me quote myself (good source IMO):
- Hrast’s events for Serbia from his message #157 (makes things harder for human player, easier for AI player). They are already written, and they’re accurate and make life even more miserable for human player who wants to buy provinces. (let’s be realistic, what Turkish Sublime Porte would ever sell anything to the ex-rayah nation, unless it was some deal of the century and a whole lot of bribing the officials going on?)

Well, it turns out they were not so accurate, so I tweaked them a bit:

#########################################################################
# Turkish Constitution - by Hrast (tweaked by ljubagru)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259104
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Signing of the Porte imposed constitution"
desc = "Weakened by domestic dissent Prince Milosh, at the instance of Russia, signed Porte imposed constitution that aimed to undermine his position, by transferring some of his power to a popular assembly"
style = 0
date = { day = 10 month = december year = 1838 }


action_a = {
name = "Sign the constitution"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -15 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Do not sign the constitution"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = prestige value = 10 }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Abdication of Milosh - by Hrast (tweaked by ljubagru)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259105
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Abdication of Milos Obrenovich"
desc = "Following Milosh`s preference of autocratic forms of rule and controversial foreign policy that strived to make Serbia independent of Russian protection, Milosh Obrenovic Prince of Serbia bended to domestic and foreign pressure and abdicated in favour of his son Michael."
style = 0
date = { day = 3 month = june year = 1839 }



action_a = {
name = "Abdicate"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -1 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -15 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Do not abdicate"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 2 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -100 }
command = { type = prestige value = 10 }
}
action_c = {
name = "Do not abdicate as we are at war with the hated Turks"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -1 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
}
}

OK, the first one was really badly needed and it is very historical as well (though the date was wrong). If you sign the constitution, you end up with a negative prestige and cannot trade lands. If you do not (ahistorical), you worsen already bad relations and good luck mending them!
The second one, I added a third option that is linked with the next event

#########################################################################
# The Beginning of Egyptian Crisis - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259106
trigger = { event = 279031 }
random = no
country = SER

name = "Serbian attitude towards the Egyptian Crisis"
desc = "The governor of Egypt is preparing to declare independence from the Ottomans and fight for the imperial title. This is our chance, albeit a very risky one. As a vassal state, we are inclined to see Muhhamad Ali as the future Sultan, so we could side with him! If war ensues, the Ottomans would not dare directly attack Serbia (colonial war) and we would soon be free, no matter the outcome. This would upset Great Powers though, especially Russia"
style = 0

date = { day = 25 month = may year = 1838 }
offset = 15
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1840 }

action_a = {
name = "Where exactly is that Egypt, anyway?"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Remain loyal to the Sublime Porte"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -5 }
command = { type = relation which = PRU value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
}
action_c = {
name = "Turkish difficulty is our opportunity! Let's side with Muhhamad"
command = { type = guarantee which = EGY }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = PRU value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = EGY value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
}
}

This is strictly speaking an ahistorical event, but also badly needed. If Serbia is not played by a human player, nothing much happens, mirroring Serbian passivity in foreign affairs of that decade (as the greatest chance is that only a minor militancy would appear – simulating Serbia’s inner quarrels, thus taking care of two events in one). If AI opts for a second option (5% chance or so), it would closely resemble Milosh’s policy of getting close to the Porte and bribing everyone and their Turkish mothers for Serbian (i.e. his own) gain. But, as I have already pointed out, human player simply cannot miss this opportunity to get independent (quoting myself again: Since the beginning of war between Egypt and Turkey is now set by an event (which is itself great) to the beginning of 1839, the only thing that a human player needs to do if he wants to stop being a Turkish satellite is to guarantee Egypt’s independence. Turkey declares COLONIAL war on Egypt, Serbia helps Egypt, but no actual fighting can take place as it is a colonial war. Once it ends, Serbia’s officially independent and no single shot was fired!). In the current mode this was simply way too easy and no self-respecting player would miss such an opportunity. Since I see no way to prevent it I decided to write this event, to show how Turkey and GP would react (certainly not favourably, hence such a prestige loss in the eyes of the world). Now you have two allies of approach: either you continue kissing the Turkish behinds (with possible future ahistorical land purchases) or you choose to be independent (a more historical tendency distancing you for ever from the Turks). Good luck in that case.

That is why I have put a third option in the previous event, Abdication of Milosh. AI would choose abdication, great for the relations, bad for the prestige (Russians got fed up with Milosh and wanted him exiled). You have a second option, do not abdicate, terrible for the relations, but great for the prestige (very, very dangerious) and a third one, if you are at war, some sort of a middle solution, still quite bad. Nobody would expect Milosh to abdicate if he was successfully working on Serbia’s independent status and the Serbs would get united in the face of Turkish danger (as they usually did in XIX cent).

The next event I gave up on after some testing in the gameplay

#########################################################################
# Military revolt overthrows the Prince - by Hrast
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259107
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Military revolt overthrows the Prince"
desc = "Politicians who forced Milosh Obrenovic to abdicate in 1838, did not feel safe with Milosh`s son Michael as the reigning prince of Serbia and started a military revolt that drove Michael into exile and elected Alexander Karageorgevich, the younger son of Karageorge, as prince of Serbia."
style = 0
date = { day = 3 month = june year = 1842 }

action_a = {
name = "Alexander Karagorgevic ascends to throne"
command = { type = prestige value = -5 }
command = { type = trigger which = 1084 }
}
}
Why? Well, human player would usually choose to keep Milosh in power, so Karageorgevich wouldn ascend to the throne in the first place. AI wouldn’t, but there should be some events in early 1840s giving Serbia some prestige and research points for establishing new schools, national museums and such, generally cultural progressing, and those events would effectively cancel each other out (first takes prestige away, second gives it)

The next event is also terribly important, the lack of it made the whole Serbian gameplay way too easy and ahistorical:

#########################################################################
# Independent status gained - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259107
random = no
country = SER

trigger = {
atwar = no
NOT = { is_satellite = SER }
}
name = "Free, after centuries of slavery, free at last!"
desc = "The Ottoman Empire is forced by Great Powers to acknowledge Serbia's independence. Turks will not take kindly to this humiliation. The British and Habsburg Empires will from now on strive to distance Serbia from Russian influence and to make her an Austrian puppet state. Serbia now has to make as many powerful friends as possible and play them off against another if she wishes to keep her freedom"
date = { day = 30 month = january year = 1840 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1880 }

action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = prestige value = 25 }
command = { type = alliance which = AUS value = 0 where = RUS }
}
}

Description says a lot, and I am especially in favour of that little hint for the player. No matter when the actual formal independence occurs (IRL in 1878), Austria would immediately act to bind Serbia to her side (hence the defensive alliance, but still bad relations (around -90)), since an open attack would be dangerous because of Russia. The Ottomans would hate Serbian guts and no trade would be even remotely possible. Prestige gain is also tweaked to give Serbia the prestige around zero.

All of the events were tested and they work fine. At one point it all looked so real that I pined for the old days of peace and purchase…(either way you go, it’s really hard to buy any land now, either your prestige is negative or your relations are crap) No more Serbo-Japanese colonial wars with this, sorry.

More events on the way. I hope these ones could be used in the following mod (fingers crossed etc)
 

Hogar

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ljubagru said:
Also, I think it would be historically correct to give Serbia claims over Sisak 930 and Bjelovar 906. Their importance is equal to Pozega (912) as they were a part of the Habsburg military frontier – Krajina, all of it also in Natchertanye. War in Croatia during 1990s was mainly focused over those areas.
This could probably stand but population is completly incorrect in these 'Krajina' provinces. Serb and Croat populations should be swapped (cerrently 70% Serb and 30 % Croat in Sisak, should be other 70-30 in favour of Croats) and Karlovac should get some Serbian minority. How much? I don't have a clue. Maybe some of the locals know ;) ...
Cheers
 

Generalisimo

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ljubagru said:
Taking a deep breath... aaaaaaaand... here we go:

Serbia:
In some previous messages it has been pointed out that Serbia unjustifiably gets a claim over Pola and that it was a typo that is already corrected for the next mod. So, what province does Serbia get instead in that event “Serbia gets created”?
So far, in the current mod, in ser.inc file this is what Serbia has:
ownedprovinces = {
930 931 917
}
controlledprovinces = {
930 931 917
}
nationalprovinces = {
# Serbia
930 931 917
# Montenegro
936
# Turkish-Held
729 908 909 910 911 932 933 940 941
# Austrian-Held
912 913 914 928 929 935
Basically I agree with everything except Austrian-Held provinces. And even there I agree with claims on Pozega (912, because it was a part of the Habsburg military frontier – Krajina), Osijek (913, because it was in Natchertanye. This claim is a bit imperialistic if only the creation of Greater Serbia is concerned, because it never had Serbian majority, so you see the problem.), Novi Sad (914, no problem there), Pancsova (928, no problem there, especially because I live in that town…), Mitrovica (929, no problem) and Kotor (935).

Now, I would like to open the question of Temesvar (915). It was a province with significant Serbian minority and it always played a part in Serbian plans (again Natchertanye) for Vojvodina (Serbian province in Austria, more or less). Rumanian principalities and Hungary also have a claim on that province and Rumania IRL obtained it after the WWI as they were the largest ethnical group there. So, to give Serbia claims over Temesvar would actually be less wrong than over Osijek. I think that Serbia should have either claims over both of those provinces or over neither of them. As this is an imperialistic time, and according to Natchertanye, I press for the first solution (having claims is one thing, GETTING those provinces, quite, quite another. It took one world war for that)

On the Adriatic coast Serbia considered Dubrovnik (934) to be populated with catholic Serbs (rather twee) and “Serbia has been created” already gives claims over Split (907) (quite justifiably, during the WWI negotiations Split was a borderline between Serbian and Italian pretensions. There was a strong party with GPs in Versailles that advocated the creation of Greater Serbia instead of Yugoslavia and it was only by Serbian and American pressing that Yugoslavia was unfortunately created) It was a great historical mistake, we thought that having Croats and Slovenes with us in one state would make us stronger together. Talking about getting stabbed in the back… So, my suggestion would be to change places of Pola 757 with Dubrovnik 934 in “Serbia has been created” event.

Also, I think it would be historically correct to give Serbia claims over Sisak 930 and Bjelovar 906. Their importance is equal to Pozega (912) as they were a part of the Habsburg military frontier – Krajina, all of it also in Natchertanye. War in Croatia during 1990s was mainly focused over those areas.

So my suggestion is:

ownedprovinces = {
930 931 917
}
controlledprovinces = {
930 931 917
}
nationalprovinces = {
# Serbia
930 931 917
# Montenegro
936
# Turkish-Held
729 908 909 910 911 932 933 940 941
# Austrian-Held
906 912 913 914 915 928 929 930 935

plus 907 and 934 given at the beginning in the “Serbia…” event. I hope you see the historical justification for this – especially because all Serbian plans were in that period focusing to the west instead to the south. You don’t see me complaining why Serbia doesn’t have a claim in Pristina (Kosovo), our bleeding heart of hearts. There you go.

Croatia: In some of my previous messages I was against Croatia having a claim over Kotor (935). So I though if Victoria already portraits Serbian aspirations relatively correctly, why shouldn’t it be so for Croatia as well? Therefore I changed my mind.

Bulgarian, Greek and Serbian claims over Macedonia. Either everybody has it, or nobody. As the latter is the case, leave it be.

Again, in one of my posts I whined about how easy it is for a human player (Serbia, Greece, even Montenegro) to befriend the Turks and then buy from them everything but Constantinople in the Balkans. This sucks, right? I think that Porte would not in a million years sell Thessaloniki or Skopje to anyone (actually, I don’t think they or Austria would sell one square inch to any of the Balkan nations, save the Greeks… but it would have to be a good penny even with them). So I propose that The Ottoman Empire should be given claims in the Balkans over Alexandropolis (969), Kavala (968), Thessaloniki (1006) and Skopje (918). I am strongly for it, please support me there! The only issue emerging would be “How could the Balkan states get those lands in the end?” The answer is in the Balkan war, event-driven, of course. Everybody who tried to make that event work failed so far, because Balkan state’s AI was dumb, but I have an elegant idea how to solve this and am working on it.

So, suggestion for Turkey.inc:

nationalprovinces = {
918 968 969 971 970 1006 #European Part

So, Generalissimo, will you comply or should I DoW you? (said he biting his fingernails in fear Generalissimo would see through his bluff) Please, please, with sugar on it

Also, I have written or tweaked some Serbian events and they work fine, so I’ll be sending them soon.
The "Serbia is created" was removed recently because it didn't work as intended (it should give a nice base to a recently created Serbia, in case they are annexed and then they revolt, the event should not trigger in the beggining of the game... because we cannot do that, we removed it).
So, you have to consider that you will not see that event again. :D

So, i should edit this:
Code:
	nationalprovinces = {
		# Serbia
		930 931 917
		# Montenegro
		936
		# Turkish-Held
		729 908 909 910 911 932 933 940 941
		# Austrian-Held
		906 912 913 914 915 928 929 930 935
}
And add: 907 and 934 ?

About Turkey, it sounds right... i was complaining about that too... it is too easy to buy all those provinces from them.
Now we have to prepare the events to remove those claims... ;)
 

Generalisimo

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ljubagru said:
Let me quote myself (good source IMO):
- Hrast’s events for Serbia from his message #157 (makes things harder for human player, easier for AI player). They are already written, and they’re accurate and make life even more miserable for human player who wants to buy provinces. (let’s be realistic, what Turkish Sublime Porte would ever sell anything to the ex-rayah nation, unless it was some deal of the century and a whole lot of bribing the officials going on?)

Well, it turns out they were not so accurate, so I tweaked them a bit:

#########################################################################
# Turkish Constitution - by Hrast (tweaked by ljubagru)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259104
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Signing of the Porte imposed constitution"
desc = "Weakened by domestic dissent Prince Milosh, at the instance of Russia, signed Porte imposed constitution that aimed to undermine his position, by transferring some of his power to a popular assembly"
style = 0
date = { day = 10 month = december year = 1838 }


action_a = {
name = "Sign the constitution"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -15 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Do not sign the constitution"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = prestige value = 10 }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Abdication of Milosh - by Hrast (tweaked by ljubagru)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259105
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Abdication of Milos Obrenovich"
desc = "Following Milosh`s preference of autocratic forms of rule and controversial foreign policy that strived to make Serbia independent of Russian protection, Milosh Obrenovic Prince of Serbia bended to domestic and foreign pressure and abdicated in favour of his son Michael."
style = 0
date = { day = 3 month = june year = 1839 }



action_a = {
name = "Abdicate"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -1 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -15 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Do not abdicate"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 2 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -100 }
command = { type = prestige value = 10 }
}
action_c = {
name = "Do not abdicate as we are at war with the hated Turks"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -1 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
}
}

OK, the first one was really badly needed and it is very historical as well (though the date was wrong). If you sign the constitution, you end up with a negative prestige and cannot trade lands. If you do not (ahistorical), you worsen already bad relations and good luck mending them!
The second one, I added a third option that is linked with the next event

#########################################################################
# The Beginning of Egyptian Crisis - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259106
trigger = { event = 279031 }
random = no
country = SER

name = "Serbian attitude towards the Egyptian Crisis"
desc = "The governor of Egypt is preparing to declare independence from the Ottomans and fight for the imperial title. This is our chance, albeit a very risky one. As a vassal state, we are inclined to see Muhhamad Ali as the future Sultan, so we could side with him! If war ensues, the Ottomans would not dare directly attack Serbia (colonial war) and we would soon be free, no matter the outcome. This would upset Great Powers though, especially Russia"
style = 0

date = { day = 25 month = may year = 1838 }
offset = 15
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1840 }

action_a = {
name = "Where exactly is that Egypt, anyway?"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Remain loyal to the Sublime Porte"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -5 }
command = { type = relation which = PRU value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
}
action_c = {
name = "Turkish difficulty is our opportunity! Let's side with Muhhamad"
command = { type = guarantee which = EGY }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = PRU value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = EGY value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
}
}

This is strictly speaking an ahistorical event, but also badly needed. If Serbia is not played by a human player, nothing much happens, mirroring Serbian passivity in foreign affairs of that decade (as the greatest chance is that only a minor militancy would appear – simulating Serbia’s inner quarrels, thus taking care of two events in one). If AI opts for a second option (5% chance or so), it would closely resemble Milosh’s policy of getting close to the Porte and bribing everyone and their Turkish mothers for Serbian (i.e. his own) gain. But, as I have already pointed out, human player simply cannot miss this opportunity to get independent (quoting myself again: Since the beginning of war between Egypt and Turkey is now set by an event (which is itself great) to the beginning of 1839, the only thing that a human player needs to do if he wants to stop being a Turkish satellite is to guarantee Egypt’s independence. Turkey declares COLONIAL war on Egypt, Serbia helps Egypt, but no actual fighting can take place as it is a colonial war. Once it ends, Serbia’s officially independent and no single shot was fired!). In the current mode this was simply way too easy and no self-respecting player would miss such an opportunity. Since I see no way to prevent it I decided to write this event, to show how Turkey and GP would react (certainly not favourably, hence such a prestige loss in the eyes of the world). Now you have two allies of approach: either you continue kissing the Turkish behinds (with possible future ahistorical land purchases) or you choose to be independent (a more historical tendency distancing you for ever from the Turks). Good luck in that case.

That is why I have put a third option in the previous event, Abdication of Milosh. AI would choose abdication, great for the relations, bad for the prestige (Russians got fed up with Milosh and wanted him exiled). You have a second option, do not abdicate, terrible for the relations, but great for the prestige (very, very dangerious) and a third one, if you are at war, some sort of a middle solution, still quite bad. Nobody would expect Milosh to abdicate if he was successfully working on Serbia’s independent status and the Serbs would get united in the face of Turkish danger (as they usually did in XIX cent).

The next event I gave up on after some testing in the gameplay

#########################################################################
# Military revolt overthrows the Prince - by Hrast
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259107
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Military revolt overthrows the Prince"
desc = "Politicians who forced Milosh Obrenovic to abdicate in 1838, did not feel safe with Milosh`s son Michael as the reigning prince of Serbia and started a military revolt that drove Michael into exile and elected Alexander Karageorgevich, the younger son of Karageorge, as prince of Serbia."
style = 0
date = { day = 3 month = june year = 1842 }

action_a = {
name = "Alexander Karagorgevic ascends to throne"
command = { type = prestige value = -5 }
command = { type = trigger which = 1084 }
}
}
Why? Well, human player would usually choose to keep Milosh in power, so Karageorgevich wouldn ascend to the throne in the first place. AI wouldn’t, but there should be some events in early 1840s giving Serbia some prestige and research points for establishing new schools, national museums and such, generally cultural progressing, and those events would effectively cancel each other out (first takes prestige away, second gives it)

The next event is also terribly important, the lack of it made the whole Serbian gameplay way too easy and ahistorical:

#########################################################################
# Independent status gained - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259107
random = no
country = SER

trigger = {
atwar = no
NOT = { is_satellite = SER }
}
name = "Free, after centuries of slavery, free at last!"
desc = "The Ottoman Empire is forced by Great Powers to acknowledge Serbia's independence. Turks will not take kindly to this humiliation. The British and Habsburg Empires will from now on strive to distance Serbia from Russian influence and to make her an Austrian puppet state. Serbia now has to make as many powerful friends as possible and play them off against another if she wishes to keep her freedom"
date = { day = 30 month = january year = 1840 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1880 }

action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = prestige value = 25 }
command = { type = alliance which = AUS value = 0 where = RUS }
}
}

Description says a lot, and I am especially in favour of that little hint for the player. No matter when the actual formal independence occurs (IRL in 1878), Austria would immediately act to bind Serbia to her side (hence the defensive alliance, but still bad relations (around -90)), since an open attack would be dangerous because of Russia. The Ottomans would hate Serbian guts and no trade would be even remotely possible. Prestige gain is also tweaked to give Serbia the prestige around zero.

All of the events were tested and they work fine. At one point it all looked so real that I pined for the old days of peace and purchase…(either way you go, it’s really hard to buy any land now, either your prestige is negative or your relations are crap) No more Serbo-Japanese colonial wars with this, sorry.

More events on the way. I hope these ones could be used in the following mod (fingers crossed etc)
it looks for me that some events lacks conditions...
i do not see where is the link between what you choose in event 259106 and the event 259107.
It looks like event 259107 will trigger EVERY time, no matter what you choose... i think you will have to send it to sleep in some choices in previous events and create new events with adapted descriptions for those choices (for example, it doesn't have sense to receive an event that said that Milosh's son was removed from power, when you never abdicated ;) ).
Also, events with just A option are not soooo great... i preffer at least to give a NASTY B option just in case the player wants to go ahistorical (and add "ai_chance = 100" to the A option, so the AI doesn't stupidly choose it ;) ).
In event 259107, the prestige gain is too much ("command = { type = prestige value = 25 }")... why? because, as you described, by exploiting the system, you could get allied with EGY and be freed later... and now you also get +25 prestige... i suggest you only remove that line. ;)
And finally, the alliance with RUS... wouldn't that help to create many balkans wars?... for example, during the Crimea war, Serbia fought in the Russian side??? :confused:
Also you should take into account this:
bad relations over X nation + claims over X nation = stupid declaration of war by the AI
I have even seen Montenegro declaring war over Turkey on january 3rd... :eek:o
(we removed the satellite status from MON and that was what happened everytime, so we had to gave it back to prevent MON declarations of war over TUR)
 

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Generalissimo, you made some great observations, thank you. Your piece of news that “Serbia has been created” event was removed was a bit of a shock for me, because, if nothing else, it provided 10 prestige points. Now, without those, prestige loss with the events I have proposed would simply be too much, and I will have to somewhat scale them down or totally change them, I’ll see how it reflects the human player and AI.

Also, just to point that out once more, I have altogether given up on event 259107, the reasons I have already stated in my last post. So, no problem there, simply forget this event. No Military revolt overthrows the Prince event. OK?

But Independent status gained is important (and I stupidly gave it the same 259107 number in the post, sorry for that, as I have already deleted the previous one and gave the next event its number. Tut, tut). Your remark that the prestige gain is a bit too much I appreciate, but I would leave at least some (let’s say 10), because it was an achievement and it should be rewarded. Also I will add action b, as you have also rightly proposed, something like, try to improve our relations with the Porte which would cost some money. Mind you, the defensive alliance is with Austria, it is totally historically based. Austria didn’t like Serbia, but wanted to narrow Serbia’s diplomatic manoeuvrability. In the case of war, I seriously doubt they would honour that alliance. In game terms it serves to discourage Turkey form attacking Serbia the minute she gets independent and with bad relations (both human player and AI). IRL, Serbia didn’t take part in the Crimean war, as Russia told her not to risk it (how polite of them).
About Serbia DoWing Turkey, once again, unfortunately it happened IRL! As well with Montenegro (several times, even! Unbelievable!) Romantic spirit, let’s all get united, etc. Of course, it was a cock-up and Russia had to intervene, or Serbia and Montenegro would have kicked the bucket. So, another event could be created, Russia would step in as soon as, let’s say, more than 50% of Serbia was occupied by Turkey, and White peace could be signed (just like IRL). Something very similar with Montenegro, the minute it gets occupied (again, as IRL, several times). Actually, Hrast had written a very similar event for 1878 (or so), and this additional would serve up to that period. The only problem is how to make it work more than once if AI keeps DoWing Turkey. On the other hand, AI (both Serbia and Montenegro) would probably remain Turkish satellites until 1870s and therefore wouldn’t declare war (takes load of my heart). Anyway, let me write those events (and I am not good at it, so it’ll take some time and then test them in a gameplay and then post them here with proper justifications). Bit of a mind cracker there as I’ll have to read pages and pages of history books to solve this one out and make it work in Victoria, both for interesting human game and AI. Sheesh.


As to the Serbian claims, without “Serbia..” event, when I add 907 and 934, we get the following:


ownedprovinces = {
930 931 917
}
controlledprovinces = {
930 931 917
}
nationalprovinces = {
# Serbia
930 931 917
# Montenegro
936
# Turkish-Held
729 908 909 910 911 932 933 940 941
# Austrian-Held
906 907 912 913 914 915 928 929 930 934 935

At least one issue settled!

Turkish claims: glad we see eye to eye on that.

Oh, well, back to the drawing board… :rolleyes:
 

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If and when anybody (including me) manages to make decent and operational Balkan war(s) events, then shalt thou learn of the nature of events thou requirest, good sir. No Turkish loss of territories in the Balkan war, no Turkish loss of European claims, methinks.
 

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I rewrote the events, checked them (both as human player and letting AI), rewrote them again and basically this is the final proposal (I have also manually removed “Serbia has been created” event to simulate the conditions in the new mod):

#########################################################################
# Turkish Constitution - by Hrast (tweaked by ljubagru)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259104
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Signing of the Porte imposed constitution"
desc = "Weakened by domestic dissent Prince Milosh, at the instance of Russia, signed Porte imposed constitution that aimed to undermine his position, by transferring some of his power to a popular assembly"
style = 0
date = { day = 10 month = december year = 1838 }


action_a = {
name = "Sign the constitution"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259106 } # due to domestic troubles
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259107 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259108 } # for not consulting GPs and a hint
}
action_b = {
name = "Do not sign the constitution"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259107 } # hint for a human player
}
}
#########################################################################
# Abdication of Milosh - by Hrast (tweaked by ljubagru)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259105
random = no
country = SER
trigger = { OR = { constitution = { country = SER type = constitutional_monarchy } constitution = { country = SER type = monarchy } } }
name = "Abdication of Milos Obrenovich"
desc = "Following Milosh`s preference of autocratic forms of rule and controversial foreign policy that strived to make Serbia independent of Russian protection, Milosh Obrenovic Prince of Serbia bended to domestic and foreign pressure and abdicated in favour of his son Michael."
style = 0
date = { day = 3 month = june year = 1839 }



action_a = {
name = "Abdicate"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -1 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -5 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Do not abdicate"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 2 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -70 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
}
}
#########################################################################
# The Beginning of Egyptian Crisis - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259106
trigger = { event = 279031 }
random = no
country = SER

name = "Serbian attitude towards the Egyptian Crisis"
desc = "The governor of Egypt is preparing to declare independence from the Ottomans and fight for the imperial title. This is our chance, albeit a very risky one. As a vassal state, we are inclined to see Muhhamad Ali as the future Sultan, so we could side with him! If war ensues, the Ottomans would not dare directly attack Serbia (colonial war) and we would soon be free, no matter the outcome. This would upset Great Powers though, especially Russia. If we stay loyal, we could later purchase some land peacefully"
style = 0

date = { day = 25 month = may year = 1838 }
offset = 15
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1840 }

action_a = {
name = "Where exactly is that Egypt, anyway?"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 1 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259107 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259108 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Remain loyal to the Sublime Porte"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -5 }
command = { type = relation which = PRU value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259107 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259108 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
}
action_c = {
name = "Turkish difficulty is our opportunity! Let's side with Muhhamad"
command = { type = guarantee which = EGY }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = PRU value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = EGY value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259108 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259107 } # hint for a human player
}
}
#########################################################################
# Independent status gained - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259107
random = no
country = SER

trigger = {
atwar = no
NOT = { is_satellite = SER }
}
name = "Free, after centuries of slavery, free at last!"
desc = "The Ottoman Empire is forced by Great Powers to acknowledge Serbia's independence. Turks will not take kindly to this humiliation. The British and Habsburg Empires will from now on strive to distance Serbia from Russian influence and to make her an Austrian puppet state. Serbia now has to make as many powerful friends as possible and play them off against another if she wishes to keep her freedom"
date = { day = 30 month = january year = 1840 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1880 }

action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = prestige value = 10 }
command = { type = alliance which = AUS value = 0 where = RUS }
}
action_b = {
name = "Try to appease the Porte"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 100 }
command = { type = treasury value = -5000 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
command = { type = alliance which = AUS value = 0 where = RUS }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Independent status dihonestly gained - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259108
random = no
country = SER

trigger = {
atwar = no
NOT = { is_satellite = SER }
}
name = "We dishonestly liberated Serbia, our position is compromised"
desc = "The Ottoman Empire is forced by Great Powers to acknowledge Serbia's independence. We could have fared much better if we had acted more honestly. Now we are disliked by all our mighty neighbours"
date = { day = 30 month = january year = 1840 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1848 }

action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = prestige value = 1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Try to appease the Porte"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 100 }
command = { type = treasury value = -6000 }
command = { type = prestige value = 1 }
}
}
The biggest change is that there are now two events for independence. If a player chooses action a or b in "Serbian attitude towards the Egyptian Crisis" and then manually guarantees Egypt’s independence (to avoid diplomatic and prestige penalties), he will get punished, as those two options put to sleep "Free, after centuries of slavery, free at last!" and "We dishonestly liberated Serbia, our position is compromised" will come to action. I have put here and there triggers that are not actually needed for an event to take place – I wanted them to serve as hints for a human player when he makes a choice by hovering a mouse over the options during the gameplay. Also, as an additional precaution and a logical chain of events (after many historical books consulted), in the event “Turkish constitution”, if a player chooses to sign the constitution, great turmoil would ensue in the country and no significant foreign diplomatic action would be possible (therefore no taking part in Egyptian crisis). Also, that’s the second way to ensure that AI remains loyal to the Porte. In my tests, not even once did it take the more hazardous approach of fighting for independence so early. Human player now has enough hints to do many options. He can remain loyal and improve his relations to the Porte (but loose a lot of prestige), or can diplomatically fight for independence and damage relations with Turkey and Russia. I tried every possible option and everything seems historically correct and logical.
 

OHgamer

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One spelling error I notice :
ljubagru said:
#########################################################################
# The Beginning of Egyptian Crisis - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
action_c = {
name = "Turkish difficulty is our opportunity! Let's side with Muhhamad"
command = { type = guarantee which = EGY }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = PRU value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = EGY value = 50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259108 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259107 } # hint for a human player
}


Should be Muhammad. Otherwise look very plausible will need to test them for balancing issues etc
 

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OHgamer said:
One spelling error I notice :

Should be Muhammad. Otherwise look very plausible will need to test them for balancing issues etc

Or Mohammad Ali (of Kavala) as he was better known. (Kavalali Mehmed-Ali Pasha in Turkish) :cool:
 

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ljubagru said:
Also, as an additional precaution and a logical chain of events (after many historical books consulted), in the event ?Turkish constitution?, if a player chooses to sign the constitution,
Sign? Surely you meant Milos could put an X on the constitution... :)

ljubagru said:
great turmoil would ensue in the country and no significant foreign diplomatic action would be possible.
Right, but you forgot to raise the militancy for the lower classes. People weren't happy to be pushed around by Turks again.
Cheers,
Milos
 

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Sorry about the typo. I used the spelling form the Egyptian event and it did look strange to me as well. The name appears once more in that event, in the description and then it should be changed. Thanks :)
 

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Mishko said:
Sign? Surely you meant Milos could put an X on the constitution... :)

Right, but you forgot to raise the militancy for the lower classes. People weren't happy to be pushed around by Turks again.
Cheers,
Milos

He, he, crafty old weasel, Milosh.

Some were actually happy to see Milosh loose his ground, so I don't think raising militancy would do much. In a later event you have that, if Milosh refuses to abdicate, which once again proves my point

Mishko, sunarodnice u rasejanju :) , what about your Balkan war(s) events? Why don’t you post them here so that we could help?
Pozdravi - Greetings
 

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Tunch Khan said:
Or Mohammad Ali (of Kavala) as he was better known. (Kavalali Mehmed-Ali Pasha in Turkish) :cool:

I must admit there's a certain high and mighty ring to it in Turkish! This would not be the first time I regreted not knowing that language :(

The problem is the full name (with other text) cannot fit within the option button space
 

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ljubagru said:
Mishko, sunarodnice u rasejanju :) , what about your Balkan war(s) events? Why don?t you post them here so that we could help?
It's WAY too much text. Check your mail and see for yourself. If anyone else wants them, PM me. The events are: SER & MON historical events, RUM unification and Balkan Wars (including creation of ALB).

BTW ljubagru, I'm thinking of pettitioning Paradox to reduce the life sustainability of Pancevo by 10 on account of being too smelly. Care to support the notion? :)
Cheers,
Milos
 
Last edited:

Tunch Khan

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ljubagru said:
I must admit there's a certain high and mighty ring to it in Turkish! This would not be the first time I regreted not knowing that language :(

The problem is the full name (with other text) cannot fit within the option button space

Well, if not the title "of Kavala" perhaps the "Mohammad-Ali" or "Mehmed-Ali" would fit. Since Mohammad alone doesn't even make sense, since his was a sort of joint name.
 

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Mishko said:
BTW ljubagru, I'm thinking of pettitioning Paradox to reduce the life sustainability of Pancevo by 10 on account of being too smelly. Care to support the notion? :)
Cheers,
Milos

That's out of game timeframe, so I don't think even omnipotent Paradox could save us here in Stinkville :)
 

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Natchertanye

Well, I wrote another set of events, this time about the Natchertanye, or Serbian National Program that was made in 1845. It always bothered me that there was not any satisfactory proposal done so far, only the ones simply mirroring what actually happened with no choices. How can that be a bad thing? Well, it is, if it’s a human player game, you cannot influence in any way such an important event that has a great impact on the rest of the game (read it – it’s do damn easy to… what? buy everything but Constantinople, of course)

What’s it all about? Pan-Slavist movement was getting stronger in those times and the Poles (Both North and South…) desperately strived to alleviate their status, among other things to compel other Slavs to fight for their own status distanced as much as possible from the Russian Tsar. Russians on the other hand also helped the rise in Slav self-awareness, as they have been toying with the idea that you all know – one tsar for all Slavs. Serbia, as the only relatively free Slav state of the period (as Montenegro was not OFFICIALLY considered even to be a vassal state, but simply a continuously rebellious Turkish province) was almost a perfect testing ground for those experiments. Count Adam Chartoriski, former Russian minister of foreign affairs and a fierce Polish patriot had in mind to make Serbia the unifier of South Slavs, sort of local Piedmont. To that end he dispatched one Czech who upon arrival to our little quarter of the world drafted with the assistance of our future minister, Ilija Garasanin, the most important secret document in the Serbian 19th century history, “The Natshertanye” (“The Draft” in an antiqued Serbian literary style We would say Nacrt today – pronounce THAT if you can… ). Garasanin scaled down Polish ideas to the harsh reality of the situation: Serbia will concentrate on “embracing all the surrounding Serbian Nations” (interesting plural, don’t you think? that noun phrase was used instead of South Slavs) currently possessed by the Turks and keep Serbian spirit alive in the black-yellow monarchy, as we didn’t have the resources to meddle with the Habsburgs and the Turks at the same time. Bosnia was the most coveted land of them all and to the great persuasion of Franz Zah for some time Garasanin considered Bosniacs and Croats simply to be Serbs, but of a different religion (Muslim Serbs and Catholic Serbs). That is basically the reason (although Garasanin admits that he is not well acquainted with conditions in Croatia) why some of the lands were included in the program. Austria is named “the eternal enemy of Serbian nation”, again very much so as it suited the Pan-Slavist movement. Serbia was advised in that document to befriend Hungarians and for quite some time there existed quite a serious plan to create a Danube Confederation (Hungary, Serbia, Rumanian principalities). Napoleon III was inclined towards it and Lajos Kossuth openly negotiated with Serbian Prince about it (Serbian Duchy or Southern Hungary was the issue on which the talks broke). Somehow this document got to be more and more used and new generations of Serbs were brought up actually believing in those lines. BUT – Garasanin was not so important at the time of its creation and there were many prominent domestic voices trying to scale down the pretensions of the document, as there have always been two strong Serbian cliques – one insanely persistent in fighting for the unification and the other parsimoniously taking care of strengthening Serbia from within and developing diplomacy (ESPECIALLY towards Austria, like towards EU today). Much because of the Natchertanye the former gained in strength, which then lead to the Bosnian Crisis and Austrian occupation of Bosnia. The Unifiers Clique was enraged by that and concentrated on conquering Old Serbia (Kosovo and Macedonia), which lead to open war with the Ottomans and helped the creation of Bulgaria. Balkan alliance was needed for that so they worked hard on making it happen, again because of the Natchertanye. But at that point the diplomatic clique won and there was peace and good relations with Austria till 1903 and the change of ruling dynasties. You know about the importance and changes of Balkan wars. But Bosnia was still not forgotten, which sparked the assassination in Sarajevo, which led to WWI, mo more, no less. The creation of Yugoslavia is directly inspired by the document. As soon as Yugoslavia was destroyed the question of Bosnia arose again and we had a cosy little neighbourhood war. Even today, in the Hague Tribunal, Natchertanye gets mentioned at least once a week. Today we have a diplomatic clique again in power, but as Bosnia wasn’t partitioned, God knows what will happen in the future.

I hope I made my point how important that document was, is and will be. Since IRL there was a high chance for a radically different Natchertanye, I made events presenting that.

#############################################################################
# Natchertanye - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259109
random = no
country = SER

name = "Serbian National Programme"
desc = "Chartoriski, former Russian foreign minister, and his envoy Franz Zah have sparked the creation of a secret document known as The Natchertanye, controversial Serbian national programme of XIX cent postulating steps and ways for unification of South Slavs, or Serbian Nations as it was stated, under the leadership of Serbia. Ilija Garasanin formulated a toned down version. Choose wisely the final one, as much depends of it"
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = april year = 1845 }
action_a = {
ai_chance = 95
name = "They are all Serbs, just don't know it yet"
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -30 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 20 } # supports national programmes in general
command = { type = addcore which = 938 } # Shkoder outlet to sea
command = { type = prestige value = -5 }
command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 25 value = jingoism where = 930 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259110 }
}
action_b = {
ai_chance = 3
name = "Wait a minute! Surely Croats are not Serbs!"
command = { type = removecore which = 907 } # Split
command = { type = removecore which = 912 } # Pozega
command = { type = removecore which = 913 } # Osijek
command = { type = removecore which = 934 } # Dubrovnik
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 10 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 10 }
command = { type = prestige value = 1 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259110 }
}
action_c = {
ai_chance = 2
name = "Report this to Austria, let's ingratiate ourselves with them"
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 70 }
command = { type = removecore which = 730 } # Sisak
command = { type = removecore which = 906 } # Bjelovar
command = { type = removecore which = 907 } # Split
command = { type = removecore which = 912 } # Pozega
command = { type = removecore which = 913 } # Osijek
command = { type = removecore which = 934 } # Dubrovnik
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -10 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -10 }
command = { type = prestige value = 10 } # conservative GP are impressed
command = { type = treasury value = 1000 } # Austrian puny reward
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259110 }
}
action_d = {
ai_chance = 0
name = "Denounce everything ahistorical and demand Nish"
command = { type = trigger which = 259110 }
}
}

I have put ai=chance for the action_ a to be the highest, so that AI would choose what actually happened. Other two options could have easily been supported, so basically AI chance should be higher, but lets make AI as historical as possible, even if little dull. The more Serbia gets closer to Austria and England (which also was actively working with Austria on distancing Serbia from Russia), the more Russia would be wary and vice-versa. The last action triggers events that would be a typical way of thinking of the diplomatic clique, all actions above send that event to sleep. Nish was one of the provinces that were flamed in Serbian Uprisings and even the Turks considered it a former part of Serbia. It would be the first place to take and the only Turks would be actually prepared to give, for a price and under certain conditions. The fact whether Serbia is at war with Turkey, is a satellite state or anything else simply does not matter, because there were even bigger negotiations than this one during the Serbian Uprisings (1804-1816). Nish (or Nis in game, I’m using the spelling of how it would be pronounced) will quite obviously be in Turkish hands in 1845 (too far away even for a human player as Russia or Austria to get it, and even if he does, Serbia AI would never choose this event, so no conflict there. Keep it simple and elegant, yet real.

#########################################################################
# Attempt to reclaim Nish by letting go of some claims - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259110
random = no
country = SER

name = "Attempt to reclaim Nish"
desc = "We have opted to give up most of our Turkish claims and keep only the ones in Rashka, Montenegro and Herzegovina, where first Serbian state had been created more than 1000 years ago. In return we ask for Nish, but perhaps it would be prudent to secure approval of a great power or, indeed, to prepare some expensive gifts. We would have the greatest chance of success with Austria's help, backed up by England, but that requires letting go of our claims in that empire"
style = 0

date = { day = 14 month = april year = 1845 }
action_a = {
name = "Act alone, offer no gifts and see what the Turks say"
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -20 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 } # for the audacity
command = { type = trigger which = 279500 } # Turkish reply
command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 25 value = jingoism where = 930 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Act alone, offer rich gifts and see what the Turks say"
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -20 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 } # for the audacity
command = { type = treasury value = -40000 }
command = { type = trigger which = 279501 } # Turkish reply
command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 25 value = jingoism where = 930 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 3 } # don't take our money!
}
action_c = {
name = "Ask Russia for help and prepare rich gifts!"
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -30 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -30 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 10 }
command = { type = prestige value = 2 }
command = { type = treasury value = -35000 }
command = { type = trigger which = 279502 } # Turkish reply
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 2 } # don't take our money!
}
action_d = {
name = "Ask Austria and Britain for help and prepare rich giftes!"
command = { type = removecore which = 730 } # Sisak
command = { type = removecore which = 906 } # Bjelovar
command = { type = removecore which = 907 } # Split
command = { type = removecore which = 912 } # Pozega
command = { type = removecore which = 913 } # Osijek
command = { type = removecore which = 914 } # Novi Sad
command = { type = removecore which = 928 } # Pancsova
command = { type = removecore which = 929 } # Mitrovica
command = { type = removecore which = 934 } # Dubrovnik
command = { type = removecore which = 935 } # Kotor
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 70 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -30 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -10 }
command = { type = treasury value = -25000 }
command = { type = prestige value = 1 }
command = { type = trigger which = 279503 } # Turkish reply
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 1 } # don't take our money!
}
}

It took quite some time to test these choices and I think I got them tweaked. Self-explanatory, I hope.

Now, the Turkish reactions, respectively:

#########################################################################
# Turkish reaction to Serbian proposal 1845 - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 279500
random = no
country = TUR

# triggered by SER259110a

name = "Turkish reply to Serbian proposal"
desc = "Serbs in Principality of Serbia are offering us a strange trade - they are prepared to give up some of their claims in Bosnia and influence their brethren in the rest of our mighty Empire to settle down, but in return they want us to give them Nish. Their diplomat hasn’t brought any bakshish, though"
style = 0

action_a = {
ai_chance = 90
name = "Outrageous! Who do they think they are!"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 3 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = -20 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259111 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
}
action_b = {
ai_chance = 10
name = "Let them have that crappy strip of land"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = SER value = 941 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -3 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259112 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = 20 }
command = { type = prestige value = -5 } # GP reaction
command = { type = peace which = SER value = 0 } # precaution
}
}

No need for bigger GP reaction here, I think

#########################################################################
# Turkish reaction to Serbian proposal with money 1845 - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 279501
random = no
country = TUR

# triggered by SER259110b

name = "Turkish reply to Serbian proposal"
desc = "Serbs in Principality of Serbia are offering us a strange trade - they are prepared to give up some of their claims in Bosnia and influence their brethren in the rest of our mighty Empire to settle down, but in return they want us to give them Nish. Their diplomat has brought a lot of bakshish, though!"
style = 0

action_a = {
ai_chance = 90
name = "Outrageous! Who do they think they are!"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 3 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = -20 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259111 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
}
action_b = {
ai_chance = 10
name = "Let them have that crappy strip of land"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = SER value = 941 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -3 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259112 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = 20 }
command = { type = prestige value = -5 } # GP reaction
command = { type = peace which = SER value = 0 } # precaution
}
}
##############################################################################
# Turkish reaction to Serbian proposal with Russian help 1845 - by ljubagru
##############################################################################
event = {
id = 279502
random = no
country = TUR

# triggered by SER259110c

name = "Turkish reply to Serbian proposal"
desc = "Serbs in Principality of Serbia are offering us a strange trade - they are prepared to give up some of their claims in Bosnia and influence their brethren in the rest of our mighty Empire to settle down, but in return they want us to give them Nish. They are backed up by Russia and their diplomat has brought gifts galore! Austria and Britain would disapprove of this action, though"
style = 0

action_a = {
ai_chance = 25
name = "Outrageous! Who do they think they are!"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 3 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 30 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 30 }
command = { type = prestige value = -5 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259111 }
}
action_b = {
ai_chance = 75
name = "Let them have that crappy strip of land"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = SER value = 941 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -30 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -30 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -3 }
command = { type = treasury value = 35000 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259112 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
command = { type = peace which = SER value = 0 } # precaution
}
}
##############################################################################
# Turkish reaction to Serbian proposal with Austrian help 1845 - by ljubagru
##############################################################################
event = {
id = 279503
random = no
country = TUR

# triggered by SER259110d

name = "Turkish reply to Serbian proposal"
desc = "Serbs in Principality of Serbia are offering us a strange trade - they are prepared to give up some of their claims in Bosnia and influence their brethren in the rest of our mighty Empire to settle down, but in return they want us to give them Nish. They are considerably backed up by Austria and Britain and their diplomat has brought gifts galore! Russia would disapprove of this action, though"
style = 0

action_a = {
ai_chance = 10
name = "Outrageous! Who do they think they are!"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 3 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 10 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
command = { type = prestige value = -10 } # England, my England
command = { type = trigger which = 259111 }
}
action_b = {
ai_chance = 90
name = "Let them have that crappy strip of land"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = SER value = 941 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -30 }
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 20 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -3 }
command = { type = treasury value = 25000 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259112 }
command = { type = prestige value = 10 } # cooperative with Westerners
command = { type = peace which = SER value = 0 } # precaution
}
}

Again, there are rewards and punishments, as this question would be used by GP to exercise their influence on the sick man of Bosphorus. The question is: would it be too much money? No, even if you trade technologies for land it usually takes one technology and about 20000 £ for one province, and relations here are surely not that great. Here you have a prospect of making Serb population tranquil, getting a lot of money, prestige and better relations with GPs. On the other hand, Turkish human player wouldn’t be faced with the challenge, as, again, Serbian AI cannot choose action that would lead to this event.

For all those options of this event, Serbian response is the same (two events):

#########################################################################
# Turkish refusal in 1845 - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259111
random = no
country = SER

# triggered by TUR279500a TUR279501a

name = "We have failed"
desc = "The Ottoman Empire has refused our proposal"

action_a = {
name = "Blast, where's the Natchertanye? Where's my pen?"
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -30 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -40 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 10 } # supports national programmes in general
command = { type = addcore which = 729 } # Bihac
command = { type = addcore which = 730 } # Sisak
command = { type = addcore which = 906 } # Bjelovar
command = { type = addcore which = 907 } # Split
command = { type = addcore which = 908 } # Banjaluka
command = { type = addcore which = 909 } # Livno
command = { type = addcore which = 910 } # Sarajevo
command = { type = addcore which = 911 } # Tuzla
command = { type = addcore which = 912 } # Pozega
command = { type = addcore which = 913 } # Osijek
command = { type = addcore which = 914 } # Novi Sad
command = { type = addcore which = 928 } # Pancsova
command = { type = addcore which = 929 } # Mitrovica
command = { type = addcore which = 934 } # Dubrovnik
command = { type = addcore which = 935 } # Kotor
command = { type = addcore which = 938 } # Shkoder outlet to sea
command = { type = prestige value = -7 }
command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 25 value = jingoism where = 930 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Croats are not Serbs, sign shorter Natchertanye!"
command = { type = addcore which = 729 } # Bihac
command = { type = addcore which = 730 } # Sisak
command = { type = addcore which = 906 } # Bjelovar
command = { type = addcore which = 908 } # Banjaluka
command = { type = addcore which = 909 } # Livno
command = { type = addcore which = 910 } # Sarajevo
command = { type = addcore which = 911 } # Tuzla
command = { type = addcore which = 914 } # Novi Sad
command = { type = addcore which = 928 } # Pancsova
command = { type = addcore which = 929 } # Mitrovica
command = { type = addcore which = 935 } # Kotor
command = { type = removecore which = 907 } # Split
command = { type = removecore which = 912 } # Pozega
command = { type = removecore which = 913 } # Osijek
command = { type = removecore which = 934 } # Dubrovnik
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 10 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 10 }
command = { type = prestige value = 1 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259110 }
}
action_c = {
name = "Let's ingratiate ourselves with Austrians then"
command = { type = relation which = AUS value = 70 }
command = { type = addcore which = 729 } # Bihac
command = { type = addcore which = 908 } # Banjaluka
command = { type = addcore which = 909 } # Livno
command = { type = addcore which = 910 } # Sarajevo
command = { type = addcore which = 911 } # Tuzla
command = { type = addcore which = 914 } # Novi Sad
command = { type = addcore which = 928 } # Pancsova
command = { type = addcore which = 929 } # Mitrovica
command = { type = addcore which = 935 } # Kotor
command = { type = removecore which = 730 } # Sisak
command = { type = removecore which = 906 } # Bjelovar
command = { type = removecore which = 907 } # Split
command = { type = removecore which = 912 } # Pozega
command = { type = removecore which = 913 } # Osijek
command = { type = removecore which = 934 } # Dubrovnik
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -10 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -10 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 } # conservative GP are impressed
command = { type = treasury value = 1000 } # Austrian puny reward
command = { type = sleepevent which = 259110 }
}
}

Addcores and removecores were added for a precaution (some may have been given away, then the negotiations failed and now Serbia’s not obliged to remove them, so better be on the safe side and not write many unnecessary events), if a thwarted player wants to change his politics now (but under harsher conditions). Imagine giving 40000 £ as small Serbia and then not achieving anything! You would surely want Natchertanye then, the final draft already done. That’s life for yuh.

#########################################################################
# Turkish acceptance in 1845, Nish obtained - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 259112
random = no
country = SER

# triggered by TUR279500b

name = "The Porte has accepted our proposal!"
desc = "The Ottoman Empire has accepted our proposal and we have renounced some of our claims and obtained Nish. Serbian folk sees this as treason"

action_a = {
name = "Yes, but Nish is ours after 450 years!"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 3 }
command = { type = removecore which = 729 } # Bihac
command = { type = removecore which = 908 } # Banjaluka
command = { type = removecore which = 909 } # Livno
command = { type = removecore which = 910 } # Sarajevo
command = { type = removecore which = 911 } # Tuzla
}
}

This is if everything goes well.

There’s a question of how the future mod will look with “The law of uneven… distribution” and new tariff system. In my test Serbia does not go bankrupt after this, but will have to spend several years repaying loans with no investment in education. So, even more correct! Everything works like a clock and gives a human player interesting historically quite feasible choices and GPs react to them just as they would IRL.

It would be great if this set of events could be included in the next mod. Surely it would contribute to having more minor nation players, and believe me, it’s great fun and more rewarding. Please make your comments, I’d love to defend this solution, as it was great craic (as Irishmen would put it - that’s “fun”) creating it.
 

unmerged(8581)

Tiarna na bhFáinní
Apr 6, 2002
50
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shite, found a mistake

Well, I'm getting tired. I found a mistake, in Turkish event 279501, when Serbia acts alone but with mone, the chances SHOULd be 50-50 (otherwise it would be the same as the first event)
:(

So, this should be in its place

#########################################################################
# Turkish reaction to Serbian proposal with money 1845 - by ljubagru
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 279501
random = no
country = TUR

# triggered by SER259110b

name = "Turkish reply to Serbian proposal"
desc = "Serbs in Principality of Serbia are offering us a strange trade - they are prepared to give up some of their claims in Bosnia and influence their brethren in the rest of our mighty Empire to settle down, but in return they want us to give them Nish. Their diplomat has brought a lot of bakshish, though!"
style = 0

action_a = {
ai_chance = 50
name = "Outrageous! Who do they think they are!"
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 3 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = -20 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259111 }
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
}
action_b = {
ai_chance = 50
name = "Let them have that crappy strip of land"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = SER value = 941 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = -3 }
command = { type = trigger which = 259112 }
command = { type = relation which = SER value = 20 }
command = { type = prestige value = -5 } # GP reaction
command = { type = peace which = SER value = 0 } # precaution
}
}

Sorry for this guys I better hit the sack :eek:o yawn.