VIP - Austria-Hungary

[nomoi]

Originally Posted by Karl Martell
Or even easier, an ai= no statement in the trigger.

I dont think that ai = no is good enough. Even it is %1, it is good know everything can go upside down. I always support the idea "what if" in Victoria...well maybe it is just me.

I dont agree with some of your comments on Crimean War about Austria is the only reason behind but let's dont go deep in this here.

I know it is going to be a hard way for you to write it all down since it is going to be a hard and complex work (this chain above you mentioned) but i can say as nomoi i am here to help anyway if i am needed and looking forward to your events. (not all your events , the austrian-germany ones and dont forget to give prussia one more chance )

 

[unmerged(10416)]

I dont think that ai = no is good enough. Even it is %1, it is good know everything can go upside down. I always support the idea "what if" in Victoria...well maybe it is just me.

I dont agree with some of your comments on Crimean War about Austria is the only reason behind but let's dont go deep in this here.

I know it is going to be a hard way for you to write it all down since it is going to be a hard and complex work (this chain above you mentioned) but i can say as nomoi i am here to help anyway if i am needed and looking forward to your events. (not all your events , the austrian-germany ones and dont forget to give prussia one more chance )

Don't hold your breath, though, I'm still busy with work for the university, and before I do something on the Austria=>Germany concept (I haven't even played Austria yet, so I don't have that "feel" yet that would be necessary to make enjoyable events...) I'd rather improve the Prussian unification events.

In any case, that Austria concept should really be a thing only for a human player. That would make it easier to balance stuff, since you wouldn't have to think about stuff like "Wouldn't this French event be way too beneficial for a human player? But if I weaken it, the Austrian player will get an easy time..."

The whole thing should be drafted in a way to be really challenging, but also sort-of plausible and detailed. Oh well, maybe I'll have to postpone it until the next semester vacations. I don't want to spam this thread with my vague mumbling.

 

[Darkrenown]

###############################################
#Budapest Convention  -by Hrast 
###############################################

event = {
id = 111021
random = no
country = AUS
trigger = { event = 279009 
	event = 259017 }
name = "Budapest Convention "                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
desc ="After tsar Alexander II concluded war with the Ottoman Empire is inevitable, Russian diplomacy had to ensure great powers would stay neutral in the conflict. In order to secure Austrian neutrality Russia agreed no new large state would be established in the Balkans in case of a Russian victory." 
style = 0                                                                                                             
date = { day = 19 month = march year = 1877 }       

action_a = { name = "Sign, promise neutrality"
	command = { type = relation  which = RUS value = 50 }
	command = { type = pop_consciousness which = officers  value = 1 } 
	command = { type = pop_militancy which = officers value = 1 }
	command = { type = sleepevent  which = 251062 }
	command = { type = sleepevent  which = 251063 }
	command = { type = sleepevent  which = 157529 }
	command = { type = break_guarantee which = TUR }
	command = { type = leave_alliance which = TUR } 
	ai_chance = 7
}
action_b = { name = "Do not promise neutrality"	
	command = { type = relation  which = RUS value = -75 } 
	command = { type = relation  which = TUR value = 100 } 
	command = { type = sleepevent  which = 251060 }
	command = { type = sleepevent  which = 251061 }
	command = { type = leave_alliance which = RUS } 
	command = { type = sleepevent  which = 157527 }
	command = { type = guarantee which = TUR }
	ai_chance = 93
}
}

Could this event, and the other Budapest Convention be changed so that they don't fire while Aus and Rus are at war? It's rather weird to be asked to remain neutral in the event of a Russo-turkish war when your are currently fighting Russia alongside the turks

Also, are there any plans to give the Austrians something if the win the leadership in germany war? Perhaps claims on the south germans states or a satilite or two?

 

[unmerged(5323)]

Could this event, and the other Budapest Convention be changed so that they don't fire while Aus and Rus are at war? It's rather weird to be asked to remain neutral in the event of a Russo-turkish war when your are currently fighting Russia alongside the turks

Acctually no. This event must absolutly always fire if the Russians are considering going to war with Ottoman Empire over Bulgaria (otherwise I would include a trigger "is_GP = yes" as well), because this event puts to sleep two out of four events for Russian declaration of war on Ottoman Empire.

I think it is better to have this anomaly than Russia DOW-ing Ottomans two or three times in one day.

 

[Theodotus1]

Acctually no. This event must absolutly always fire if the Russians are considering going to war with Ottoman Empire over Bulgaria (otherwise I would include a trigger "is_GP = yes" as well), because this event puts to sleep two out of four events for Russian declaration of war on Ottoman Empire.

I think it is better to have this anomaly than Russia DOW-ing Ottomans two or three times in one day.

Perhaps an alternate version of the event could be written for when Russia is already at war, that sleeps things appropriately without presenting the anomalous choice?

 

[unmerged(5323)]

Perhaps an alternate version of the event could be written for when Russia is already at war, that sleeps things appropriately without presenting the anomalous choice?

This option did not occur to me. Good suggestion, I will do so.

But what should I write in the description? "You are already in war with Russia and therefore Budapest Convention won`t happen."?!

 

[Theodotus1]

This option did not occur to me. Good suggestion, I will do so.

But what should I write in the description? "You are already in war with Russia and therefore Budapest Convention won`t happen."?!

Something like that.

How about: "Due to the ongoing war with Russia, the Budapest Convention was cancelled."

 

[Darkrenown]

Cool

What about winning the german leadership war?

 

[unmerged(5323)]

Cool
What about winning the german leadership war?

Have you checked the Germany thread?

 

[Darkrenown]

Good idea

 

[Innocent]

As I discussed briefly on the main forum with Darkrenown, there should be events which take into account the inevitable collapse and dissolution if the Habsburgs were removed from the throne of either the Austrian Empire or Austria-Hungary.

The suggested event would be triggered by Austria's becomming a democracy and would use the nuetralization command to release all of her satellites as her component nations seceed and declare their independance. Other events could be written to handle the response. For example, newly gutted Austria may wish to maintain control over the largely German populations of Bohemia, while Hungary may wish to reincorporate the Polisha and Ruthenian provinces to her east. Likewise there would be a strong chance of a war between the Croats who would wish to break free from the Crown of St. Stephen and the Hungarians who would likely fight tooth and nail to retain those lands. There is also the possibility of Hungary seeking to setup the Habsburgs upon the Hungarian throne, a possibility which was longed for by many Hungarian patriots who sought an independant Hungary.

Simply put, I think it would be a good idea to look at the manner in which the Austrian Empire or Austia-Hungary would disintegrate without the centuries-old unifying force which barely kept them together as was. This would also make the position of the Austrian player more difficult, as it should be, the Austrians were strugglign just to keep their heads above water, while also giving him strong encouragement to protect the status quo and prevent liberals from ever taking over the government.

 

[McNaughton]

Notes on Austria

After playing Austria a few times in VIP, as well as knowing some Austrian History, I have a few 'suggestions'.

#1. There are almost always constant Prestige hits. It is virtually impossible to get Prestige above 30 for the first 40 years without being constantly at war.

#2. The Crimean War: It seems like once I declare neutrality, that's it for any involvement in the Crimean War, that or wait for the Ottomans to inevitably ask me to join their alliance.

IF Russia takes Wallachia and/or Moldavia, Austria historically issued an ultimatum for Russia to withdraw, which they did (this could be a yes/no situation, leading to war). These provinces then became (temporary) Austrian protectorates. Then given back to Turkey at the end of the conflict.

I have seen Russia steamroll Turkey, when historically Turkey put up a good fight, and through pressure from Austria and the Allied advance on Sevastopol, the Russians had to give in. The threat of Austrian involvement scared the Russians, since they were making little progress against Turkey or the Allies, and didn't want the Austrians invovled as well. Successful Austrian diplomacy should increase their standing in Europe (which it historically did) and might help the Prestige drain.

#3. Austrian Navy: By the 1840's Austria started construction of a navy of Frigates and by the 1860's of Ironclads. As it is now, it is virtually impossible to do either. Austria and Sardinia-Piedmont could probably use shipyards (Austrian one in Venitia) starting in 1836 (Sardinia already has a fleet). The Machineparts cost is too prohibative to build one until the late 1860's, or early 1870's (especially since the period from 1848-1866 is full of turmoil, wars and heavy prestige hits). This means that there could never be a battle of Lissa.

#4. The Danish Crisis event trigger is a Prestige drain no matter what choice you take. If you accept war, the 15 Prestige gain doesn't come close to the loss by declaring war, usually resulting in remaining at peace being the lesser Prestige drain. The positive end of the war gives nothing to Austria as well (AFIK).

#5. Venitian independence of 1848-1849. This uprising created a temporary Venitian state, which had to be subdued by the Austrian Army. Currently this could only happen should the liberals uprise and declare independence, which never happens. Maybe this should be done in a separate event?

 

[G-Klav]

I don't konw if this is the right forum, but you might want to have Czechoslovakia as a possible revolter instead of (or as well as) Bohemia-Moravia and Slovakia in VIP.

The revolt.txt entry would look like:

U02 = {                                            #noticed that this tag was free
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1845 } #or something...
	expirydate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1920 }
	minimum = { 733 734 735 760 761 762 763 775 900 951 952 953 954 955 }
	 extra = { 949 950 }
	 capital = 762
	culture = { 
		type = czech
	 	type = slovak
		}
	religion = catholic
	literacy = -1
	 ai = "default.ai"
	 primitive = no
 }

I've done two events for them as well - one that gives them the right cores if they revolt and one that moves their Capital to Prague.

 

[Generalisimo]

After playing Austria a few times in VIP, as well as knowing some Austrian History, I have a few 'suggestions'.

#1. There are almost always constant Prestige hits. It is virtually impossible to get Prestige above 30 for the first 40 years without being constantly at war.

#2. The Crimean War: It seems like once I declare neutrality, that's it for any involvement in the Crimean War, that or wait for the Ottomans to inevitably ask me to join their alliance.

IF Russia takes Wallachia and/or Moldavia, Austria historically issued an ultimatum for Russia to withdraw, which they did (this could be a yes/no situation, leading to war). These provinces then became (temporary) Austrian protectorates. Then given back to Turkey at the end of the conflict.

I have seen Russia steamroll Turkey, when historically Turkey put up a good fight, and through pressure from Austria and the Allied advance on Sevastopol, the Russians had to give in. The threat of Austrian involvement scared the Russians, since they were making little progress against Turkey or the Allies, and didn't want the Austrians invovled as well. Successful Austrian diplomacy should increase their standing in Europe (which it historically did) and might help the Prestige drain.

#3. Austrian Navy: By the 1840's Austria started construction of a navy of Frigates and by the 1860's of Ironclads. As it is now, it is virtually impossible to do either. Austria and Sardinia-Piedmont could probably use shipyards (Austrian one in Venitia) starting in 1836 (Sardinia already has a fleet). The Machineparts cost is too prohibative to build one until the late 1860's, or early 1870's (especially since the period from 1848-1866 is full of turmoil, wars and heavy prestige hits). This means that there could never be a battle of Lissa.

#4. The Danish Crisis event trigger is a Prestige drain no matter what choice you take. If you accept war, the 15 Prestige gain doesn't come close to the loss by declaring war, usually resulting in remaining at peace being the lesser Prestige drain. The positive end of the war gives nothing to Austria as well (AFIK).

#5. Venitian independence of 1848-1849. This uprising created a temporary Venitian state, which had to be subdued by the Austrian Army. Currently this could only happen should the liberals uprise and declare independence, which never happens. Maybe this should be done in a separate event?

thanks for the input, i will look into... we know that Austria has too many prestige drains making it very hard to reach their historical levels...

 

[unmerged(23158)]

I started out Austria with high pretige to counter this, and then usually added prestige gains high enough for some war events (especially in 1848) to boost up prestige. And in all honesty, after 1866, Austria-Hungary was not exactly the most prestigous power in Europe, so lower ratings by this period is not nearly so serious.

#3. Austrian Navy: By the 1840's Austria started construction of a navy of Frigates and by the 1860's of Ironclads. As it is now, it is virtually impossible to do either. Austria and Sardinia-Piedmont could probably use shipyards (Austrian one in Venitia) starting in 1836 (Sardinia already has a fleet). The Machineparts cost is too prohibative to build one until the late 1860's, or early 1870's (especially since the period from 1848-1866 is full of turmoil, wars and heavy prestige hits). This means that there could never be a battle of Lissa.

This seems to be a problem that is more general in nature, as it is extremely difficult for any middle-sized power to built even a small fleet. You think it's hard for Austria to build a decent navy? Try playing as Argentina (which had dreadnoughts) and building a modern fleet? Pretty near impossible. A serious revalution of taxation, supply costs and building requirements would seem to be in order...

 

[Generalisimo]

I started out Austria with high pretige to counter this, and then usually added prestige gains high enough for some war events (especially in 1848) to boost up prestige. And in all honesty, after 1866, Austria-Hungary was not exactly the most prestigous power in Europe, so lower ratings by this period is not nearly so serious.

I do not see a need for that... in my games Austria usually is in the great power list (if you are playing VIP, not the original Victoria game ).
They do not need any kind of prestige boosts...

 

[unmerged(19037)]

I was playing Hungary and I found it pretty boring so I created an event for it.
Feel free to use it.

##################
#Time For Changes#
##################

event = {
id = 180001
random = no
country = HUN
trigger = {
NOT = { satellite = { country = HUN country = AUS }
}
}

name = "What should our goverment be?"
desc = "Now that Hungary is freed from Austria, politicans must agree on the form of goverment"
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1840 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1920 }



action_a = {
name = "Democracy!"
command = { type = allow_party value = -1 }
command = { type = constitution which = democracy }
command = { type = executive_designation which = parliamentarism }
command = { type = party_system which = multi_party }
command = { type = voting_rights which = wealth}
command = { type = prestige value = 10 }
command = { type = treasury value = -1000 }
command = { type = national_value which = liberty}
command = { type = pop_consciousness which = hungarian value = -2 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = hungarian value = -3 }
}

action_b = {
name = "Let it be constitutional Monarchy!"
command = { type = prestige value = 5 }
command = { type = constitution which = constitutional_monarchy }
command = { type = national_value which = order }
command = { type = party_system which = multi_party }
command = { type = executive_designation which = hms_government }
command = { type = treasury value = -1000 }
command = { type = pop_consciousness which = hungarian value = -1 }
command = { type = pop_militancy which = hungarian value = -2 }
}

}

 

[Generalisimo]

you can change that yourself, you do not need an event for that...

 

[Dunderdon]

A few remarks on Austria from me

1) In my last game as Prussia, Austria's population was about 16 million in 1914(!) - Why did it sink so drastically?

2) About all those "Austria forming a German nation" theory:
AFAIK, Austria never tried to form a German nation!!! Whenever they tried to push the "großdeutsche Lösung" they had something like the HRE in mind (small states of which none is dangerous to Austria but everyone is very loyal) or maybe something like how the Habsburgs governed their parts of Italy (by sending relatives to the thrones of these nations, but not integrating them in the Austrian nation.) A one-territorial state from Ribe to Venecia is unrealistic, even if Austria had won against Prussia and whoever else was in her way.

3) Weren't Toskana, Modena and Parma some kind of satellites of Austria in 1836?

4) Austria never gets Bosnia-Herzegowina... something should be done about that!

I hope that was constructive!

 

[Generalisimo]

1) In my last game as Prussia, Austria's population was about 16 million in 1914(!) - Why did it sink so drastically?

Probably because the population didn't have a place to work... or they have better living conditions in another place.

2) About all those "Austria forming a German nation" theory:
AFAIK, Austria never tried to form a German nation!!! Whenever they tried to push the "großdeutsche Lösung" they had something like the HRE in mind (small states of which none is dangerous to Austria but everyone is very loyal) or maybe something like how the Habsburgs governed their parts of Italy (by sending relatives to the thrones of these nations, but not integrating them in the Austrian nation.) A one-territorial state from Ribe to Venecia is unrealistic, even if Austria had won against Prussia and whoever else was in her way.

Well, we can to talk to author of that to liberate those countries as satellites after they are united.

3) Weren't Toskana, Modena and Parma some kind of satellites of Austria in 1836?

They are now.

4) Austria never gets Bosnia-Herzegowina... something should be done about that!

from Turkey?

I hope that was constructive!

sure.