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Hamza

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Hey!

First off, thanks for the compliment OHGamer! I'm with you on the badboy part.

My two cents: The reason why the event is triggered as such was because the Hapsburgs lost power and prestige, across the board. Hence the requirement to no longer be a great power, and indeed, to be satellited.
 

RELee

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HEY!

I like the work you're doing. Keep doing it! :D
 

unmerged(57228)

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May 21, 2006
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I do not think it should be affected by the Ausgleich much at all - because the intention behind it is so very open: the first attempt to federalise? Or is it more the conspiration of the two largest ethnicities to keep all others under its thumbs?

Much more interesting, imo, is the failed Ausgleich with the Czechs. I've written a couple events, but they are incomplete. Since I don't know when I can work on them again, here:
Code:
################################################## 
# Czech Ausgleich Events
################################################## 
event = {
	id = 111300 
	random = no
	country = AUS

	trigger = {
		flag = { name = flg_ausgleich value = 1 }
		owned = { province = 762 data = AUS }
              }

	name = "Imperial Rescript for Bohemia"
	desc = "Secret talks with the Czech leaders Rieger and Palacký led to Franz Joseph issuring an imperial rescript, promising the Czechs recognition of their ancient rights and showing his willingness to take the coronation oath."
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = august year = 1871 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = september year = 1871 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Issue the Rescript"  
		command = { type = prestige which = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = czech value = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = czech value = -1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = south_german value = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = hungarian value = 1 }
		
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "We dare not upset Germans and Hungarians"  
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = czech value = -1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = czech value = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = south_german value = -1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = hungarian value = -1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 111302 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 111303 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 111304 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 111305 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 111306 }
	}
}

# Something for non-Ausgleich Austria. Extremely unlikely that it is even attempted, but possible.
event = {
	id = 111302
	random = no
	country = AUS

	trigger = {
		not { flag = { name = flg_ausgleich value = 1 } } # Trigger if we are a German empire or still German-controlled
		owned = { province = 762 data = AUS } # We must have Bohemia
              }

	name = "Ministry of Bohemian Affairs"
	desc = "Despite insiting on continued German rule, the government in Vienna gave the Czechs in Bohemia a considerable amount of self-government, which was later used to Czechify the Bohemian Germans."
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = august year = 1871 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = september year = 1871 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Set up the ministry"  
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = czech  value = -1 where = 762 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = south_german  value = 1 where = 762 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = south_german  value = 1 where = 762 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = south_german  value = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 15 value = limited_citizenship where = 762 }
		command = { type = inc_flag which = flg_usga_strength value = 1 } # Local self-government goes a small way 
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "This is not necessary"
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = czech value = 1 where = 762 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = south_german  value = -1 where = 762 }
		command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 15 value = full_citizenship where = 762 }
	}
}

# Warning from Hungarians and Southern Germans

event = {
	id = 111303
	random = no
	country = AUS
	trigger = { 
		or = {
			event = 111301
			event = 111302
			}
		}
	
	name = "Czech answer and Hungarian warning"
	event = "The Czechs answered the imperial rescript by submitting a constitution proposal, which would have given them an equal status to Hungary. Pressured by the Hungarians and Bohemian Germans who invoked the spectre of an increasingly unstable empire, Francis Joseph I. backed down from the proposal, greatly upsetting the Czechs."
	style = 0
	date = { day = 1 month = october year = 1871 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = october year = 1871 }

	action_a = {
		name = "The empire is more important - reject the constitution"	
		command = { type = trigger which = 111304 } # 2nd Ausgleich refused
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Accept the constitution without change"	
		command = { type = trigger which = 111305 } # 2nd Ausgleich accepted
	}
	
	action_c = {
		name = "Accept the constitution, but divide Bohemia along ethnic lines"
		command = { type = trigger which = 111306 } # Great step towards USGA
	}
}

# Ausgleich refused - historical

event = {
	id = 111304
	random = no
	country = AUS
	
	# triggered by AUS111303
	
	name = "Czech Ausgleich refused"
	event = "Francis Joseph I. ultimately backed down from the Czech constitution proposal, fearing for the stability of the empire."
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"	
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = czech value = 2 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = czech value = 2 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = south_german value = -1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = hungarian value = -1 }
	}
}

# Ausgleich accepted 1: Bohemia stays intact - S.G. greatly upset
event = {
	id = 111305
	random = no
	country = AUS
	
	# triggered by AUS111303
	
	name = "Czech Ausgleich accepted"
	event = "Francis Joseph I. ultimately decided to accept the proposal with little changes, deciding to weather a storm that would ultimately strengthen the Austrian crown."
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"	
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = czech }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = south_german value = 2 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = south_german value = 2 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = hungarian value = 1 }
		command = { type = inc_flag which = flg_usga_strength value = 2 } # Vastly increases probability of further federalisation
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 111027 } # No need for 5th March act
	}
}

# Ausgleich accepted 2: Bohemia is partitioned along ethnical lines - S.G. upset, Czechs upset - USGA very likely now
event = {
	id = 111306
	random = no
	country = AUS
	
	# triggered by AUS111303
	
	name = "Czech Ausgleich accepted"
	event = "Francis Joseph I. ultimately decided to accept a modified proposal, which would leave German Bohemia under the direct access of the crown. While both Czech and Germans were furious, the Hungarians were ready to rebell yet again."
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"	
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = czech }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = south_german value = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = south_german value = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = hungarian value = 2 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = czech value = 1 }
		command = { type = inc_flag which = flg_usga_strength value = 3 } # Greatly increases probability of further federalisation
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 111027 } # No need for 5th March act
	}
}

# Revolts from Ausgleich
111307

# Revolts from Ausgleich
111308

# Revolts from Ausgleich end
111309

# Ministry of Galician affairs in 1871 - no option other than accept or decline (increase militancy for Ukrainians)
event = {
	id = 111310
	random = no
	country = AUS

	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 947 data = AUS } # We must have Galizien
              }

	name = "Ministry of Galicien Affairs"
	desc = "Despite insiting on continued German rule, the government in Vienna gave the Poles in Galicia a considerable amount of self-government, which was later used to Polonize the Ruthenian minority."
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = november year = 1871 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1871 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Set up the ministry"  
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = polish value = -1 where = 947 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = ukrainian  value = 1 where = 947 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = ukrainian  value = 1 where = 947 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = ukrainian  value = 1 }
		command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 15 value = limited_citizenship where = 947 }
		command = { type = inc_flag which = flg_usga_strength value = 1 } # Local self-government goes a small way 
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "This is not necessary"
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = polish value = 1 where = 947 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = ukrainian  value = 1 where = 947 }
		command = { type = pop_dominant_issue which = 15 value = full_citizenship where = 947 }
	}
}
 
Last edited:

unmerged(57613)

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So in other words, the Ausgleichs are still possible even with Austrian dominance of German lands?
I think as it is now, the only way to get the Aus-Hun Ausgleich is to lose the Six Weeks War against Prussia.
 

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Hail of Nails said:
So in other words, the Ausgleichs are still possible even with Austrian dominance of German lands?
I think as it is now, the only way to get the Aus-Hun Ausgleich is to lose the Six Weeks War against Prussia.

I think all but 1 of his new events are based on the premise that AUS has had the Ausgleich with the Hungarians, and how to deal with Czech demands for a similar status. as he notes, the one that is not for an Ausgleich is something that given how average games work out, would be a rare happening (AUS when AI-controlled almost always has Ausgleich accepted)
 

unmerged(57228)

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May 21, 2006
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Hail of Nails said:
So in other words, the Ausgleichs are still possible even with Austrian dominance of German lands?
I think as it is now, the only way to get the Aus-Hun Ausgleich is to lose the Six Weeks War against Prussia.
Not quite true. There's two Ausgleich events (although the second one makes it very unlikely to happen).
Event 111013 said:
#When Austria contests Prussian leadership in Germany, but has to back down after losing a war.
#When Germany has been unified by Popular Unification event.
#When Germany has been formed by the Conservative Empire event.
#When Austria fails to create a South German Zollverein.
Event 111014 said:
#When Austria contests Prussian leadership and Prussia is forced by a war to accept.
#When Austria controls SGF either because of Partial Unification or Southern Zollverein events.
#When Prussia accepts dual leadership in Austria.

OHgamer said:
I think all but 1 of his new events are based on the premise that AUS has had the Ausgleich with the Hungarians, and how to deal with Czech demands for a similar status. as he notes, the one that is not for an Ausgleich is something that given how average games work out, would be a rare happening (AUS when AI-controlled almost always has Ausgleich accepted)
That's the idea behind it, yes.
One quibble: the Ministry of Galicien Affairs triggers even without Ausgleich - the ministry was historically set up in post-Ausgleich Austria, but I see no reason why a non-Ausgleich Austria would not have some of its population pacified by greater local self-rule.
I just botched up the trigger and just about noticed it (copy & paste-error from the Bohemian ministry). Oops. :eek:o
 
Last edited:

unmerged(12990)

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Dec 20, 2002
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I have been doing some reading on the 1895 earthquake in Ljubljana, and I think it could almost warrant an inclusion in VIP eventually. It started a huge fund-raising campaing throughout Austria-Hungary, half the city was rebuilt from the ground up, Franz-Josef visited, and donations were being made as far away as the USA, and first tourists started visiting due to this new fame from all over Europe, the numbers jumping from almost zero to over 40,000 in just a year. :)

If there were two events, the first one could be something like:
-decreased life rating
-population decrease
-you lose money

and the next one, about 5 or 10 years later, after the city is rebuilt:
-increased prestige
-life rating increased by more than it was decreased in 1895
-decreased militancy for all POPs in Ljubljana


(can't put this in a modding form unfortunately, as I couldn't write an event to save my life)
 
Last edited:

Hamza

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Tabris.BR said:
Just one point, and if there's Early Unification as from the event that is already in VIP?

That event fires on the Democratic Liberal Unification of Germany; it's the "historical" path. Everything about the event is true as written by OHGamer and crew, except that it didn't come to pass. Bismarck cuckolded the '48 liberals.

The event I wrote is based on the Conservative Empire formation of Germany. It's slightly less historical.
 

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So any update to this event? Might consider adding it.
 

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Popular unification

Hey guys i was looking at the vickywiki wikipedia site for ways to unify germany and wanted to try out the popular unification with austria joining germany as well but i don´t see any possibility for austria to join in the popular unification reaction events for austria:


Code:
#########################################################################
#Popular unification reaction #By Darkrenown
#########################################################################
event = {
	id = 111100
	random = no
	country = AUS

	trigger = {
		event = 4612
		OR= {	
			constitution = { country = AUS type = monarchy }
			constitution = { country = AUS type = constitutional_monarchy }
		}
		
	}

	name = "EVT111100N"
	desc = "EVT111100D"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1836 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1920 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACT111100A"
		command = { type = relation which = GER value = -125 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTWAR"
		command = { type = war which = GER }
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTOK"
		command = { }
	}
}
#########################################################################		
#Popular unification reaction #By Darkrenown
#########################################################################
event = {
	id = 111101
	random = no
	country = AUS

	trigger = {
		event = 4612
		constitution = { country = AUS type = democracy }
		NOT = {
			 exists = HUN
		}
		
	}

	name = "EVT111100N"
	desc = "EVT111100D"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1836 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1920 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACT111101A"
		command = { type = relation which = GER value = -75 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTWAR"
		command = { type = war which = GER }
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTOK"
		command = { }
	}
}


### event removed

Wikipedia explains that that it doesnt matter what form of government austria is and that hungary has to exist in some form. I was wondering if you had this event removed in the lates versions as i recall that this was possible in previous versions? possibly i am mistaken but i just can´t seem to find anything related to this but the new events about austria joining conservative empire :p

anyway here is also link for wikipedia article: http://www.paradoxian.org/vickywiki/index.php/Unifying_Germany

thanks in advance
 

OHgamer

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There isn't anything currently developed yet for AUS to join a Pop-Uni GER but there is discussion about under what conditions such a thing could happen under conservative empire in the CUSTOM VIP EVENT: Austria Joins Conservative Germany thread so perhaps discussion of the conditions for a potential Popular Unification chain should be worked out as well.
 

OHgamer

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Merged. Let's have one thread to discuss under what conditions AUS should join GER via the various German unification paths, and what the non-German parts of the Habsburg lands would become

To me, the only way I can see AUS joining Popular Unify GER is if they have already had their own popular revolution (no more Habsburgs around) so only if AUS has become a democracy would it make any sense. HUN should also no longer be a part, and options for the Czechs and other non-Germanophone peoples of the remainder of AUS should be developed. Czech nationalism in particular I think had reached a point by 1848 that it would be highly unlikely the Czechs would have accepted remaining in a German state permanently, even a democratic one.
 

Gen. Skobelev

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OHgamer said:
Czech nationalism in particular I think had reached a point by 1848 that it would be highly unlikely the Czechs would have accepted remaining in a German state permanently, even a democratic one.

Ah but would the Germans have let Moravia, Bohemia and other juicy parts just go as independent Czech state? Talk about nation-states in German parliament was all well and good but would they have allowed Czechs, Poles and other minority populations just form their own countries? Perhaps some event chain where Czechs may demand independence and they can either get it or face some serious problems with military (like Italian revolutions were handled)?

But I agree with the Habsburg limitation. With the Habsburgs there's no way Austria would have joined Germany.
 

Gottskalk

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But I agree with the Habsburg limitation. With the Habsburgs there's no way Austria would have joined Germany.

True, but if we consider austria as a democratic country with the habsburgs as the royal family then maybe they would be willing to join germany if they would retain their royal status as the head of royality for germany?

or maybe not...
 

Panzerschreck

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1919 a republik out of A-H formed. Deutsch-Oesterreich, consisting of today Austria and parts of Sudetenland, its goals was to join Germany.

Actually, i would say the will of Austria to join Germany was quite high up to 1866, but they want to do under their conditions (even join with their non german part) which Germany didn't exept. There where as you know thre forms of how germany should form.

Kleindeutsch = Small Germany (within the borders of 1871)
Gesamtdeutsch = "Complete Germany" (Borders of 1871 plus the Austrian German parts)
Grossdeutsch = Greater Germany (1871 plus hole Austrian-Hungary, including non german parts)

So i would say, when Germany has the option to choose they would go with the first and secound option, whuile Austria would go with the last.
 

Gottskalk

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I would like to throw some things out about the frankfurt assembly since we are taking on the paths of unification and i think this might be the spot.

Generally the frankfurt assembly of 1848 is a terrible way to unify germany and i don´t think anybody actually accepts this way, the reality was (according to wikipedia) that this assembly and constitution created there wasn´t nearly radical enough to be able to unify germany and because of this this chance of unification faded away for many reasons and hinderances . I was thinking that maybe if we take a look at these reasons and hinderances and maybe build an event chain for a player who if he plays his cards right and with a lot of luck can force through a powerful german constitution for a chance to make this unhistorical germany and be rewarded with the possibility of a Grossdeutschland unification (or probably more likely the Gesamtdeutsch as Panzerschreck explains ).

According to the wikipedia article on the frankfurt assembly ( sorry for lame source)There were a number of flaws and these can be used to create events where you can choose to go the right way (or the generally right way)

first the article mentions this

Factions
After the discussion about civil rights the Assembly factionalized along liberal-versus-conservative lines, as well as between monarchists and republicans.

On the far right side appeared the conservative federalists, who advocated a federal state with huge powers for the monarchs.
Not as far to the right were the constitutional federalists, who advocated a federal state with the monarch submitting to constitutions.
On the moderate left side appeared the parliamentary unitarists, who advocated a centralized state with a monarchy responsible to parliament.
On the far left, appeared the republican unitarists, who advocated a centralized republic.

The existence of so many factions, of course, made the work far more difficult.

So it is claimed that there were too many factions within the movement and therefore it was hard to come to agreements due to policy conflicts. So the event would probably either give you the possibility to shape a unified heading for which all the sides abide too or to favour one party over the others as too get the things done.

the next problem was this

Obstruction
Work was further obstructed by conservative resistance from Austria, Prussia and foreign countries and by a quarrel about Schleswig-Holstein. After difficult debates the deputies chose for the small German solution (Kleindeutschland: Germany under Prussian lead, without Austria).

All kinds of problems concerning both german states and foreign ones caused some hinderance and the Schleswig-Holstein war was prominent as the following Prussian-Danish armistice in August 1848 was negotiated without the consent of the Frankfurt Parliament and it became evident that the Parliament had the weakness of having no army of its own to deal with situations as this and was at the mercy of having to ask the stronger state of prussia to fight.

More problems followed

Revolts
In September revolts occurred in Frankfurt and the parliament had to call troops from the German states.


Deliberations about a constitution
In October 1848 delibrations about a constitution started. Results were presented in April 1849. The constitution was meant to be a synthesis of tradition (empire, monarchy, federal state) and progress (universal suffrage, house of representatives).

these would probably be prevented by choosing better events earlier.

and in the end

Failure

Kaiserdeputation: Friedrich Wilhelm IV. is offered the title of German Emperor and refuses itAfter the completion of the constitution the deputies presented the crown of Little Germany to Friedrich Wilhelm IV, King of Prussia. He refused what he called a crown "from the gutter"and caused the Prussian and Austrian deputies to leave the parliament, which was doomed to be disbanded.

After the members of parliament were driven out of Frankfurt, the most radical members (those who wanted to establish a republic) fled to Stuttgart. A short while later, this rump parliament was dissolved by the Württemberg military

This would spell the end for this attempt for unification and is generally what you playing ahistorically want to avoid

If this is what the liberal revolutions events are supposed to cover then maybe im just babbling too much but i think that as this frankfurt assembly event is its just as useless as the popular unifacation event presently is (without austria joining)

and the link to my only reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_Parliament
 

Victor1234

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I'll be posting a few events here as soon as I finish writing them (mainly concerns post-Hungarian war of independence events and subsequent budgeting events to simulate problems with the dual monarchy arrangement). The federal state idea also seems interesting, so I might look into that as well.

In the meanwhile, one thing I wanted to discuss was the depiction of the Ausgleich in-game. At present (unless things have changed with the V:R version of VIP, I only played the latest VIP for Vic 1.4), Austria gains a culture and get a flag change, but wouldn't a better way to represent it be to have Hungary as a satellite of Austria, with similar money-transfer events (representing Hungarian contributions to the joint budget) as with British India to UK?
 

Nietzsche

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Victor1234 said:
I'll be posting a few events here as soon as I finish writing them (mainly concerns post-Hungarian war of independence events and subsequent budgeting events to simulate problems with the dual monarchy arrangement). The federal state idea also seems interesting, so I might look into that as well.

In the meanwhile, one thing I wanted to discuss was the depiction of the Ausgleich in-game. At present (unless things have changed with the V:R version of VIP, I only played the latest VIP for Vic 1.4), Austria gains a culture and get a flag change, but wouldn't a better way to represent it be to have Hungary as a satellite of Austria, with similar money-transfer events (representing Hungarian contributions to the joint budget) as with British India to UK?
I think that the problem with that is, quite simply...Austria can't use Hungary's troops as effectively. You're taking 1 reasonably powerful nation and splitting them into two decidedly weak nations.
(I ought to know, because Hungary, when released, has an industry of 53-60. Where as, Bohemia has one of 153.)

So, keeping them together keeps them stronger than if they were separate. A released Hungary is basically an agrarian state.