i agree with what you say, but it seems that there is little or no intrest in improved ww1 mod for victoria.
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Probably because those interested in WWI already are working on the mod for HOI:TGW. Really all the work that would need to be done to the 1914 campaign is the OOB's, redoing the events that we have for TGW(I am unopposed to someone using them to improve the Vicky campaign, but it is not my sole decision to make.), and improving the AI. The map is already done for you (although tags might need to be created for a few nations), with the no time limit patch you can extend the date to include the Russian revolution, etc.
Well I wish you luck.
Well I wish you luck.
It has begun!
Started working on eXtended 1914 scenario. It will be a "secondary objective, as VIP is the main priority right now, but atleas i'm working on it!
Started working on eXtended 1914 scenario. It will be a "secondary objective, as VIP is the main priority right now, but atleas i'm working on it!
unknown-X- said:Started working on eXtended 1914 scenario. It will be a "secondary objective, as VIP is the main priority right now, but atleas i'm working on it!
Cool. Would certainly be interesting to have an improved WWI scenario too.
Well, I'll do my semi-standard routine (yeah, yeah, I know) and point out a couple of things in the Americas that should be looked at in any new 1914 scenario...please check the last two points of this post here.
There's more specific justification for them in the rest of the thread of course, but I can provide any extra info/etc. upon request, if necessary.
eXtended in every way. Improved AI, economy, military balance, changed techs, modified WM. Event and timeframe changes come in later versions, right now i'm trying to get this scenario working.
Well unknown-X- I wish you well. If you have any questions that you think we might be able to answer feel free to pop over to TGW forum.
resources for different countries already modified, plus changed few pop's in russia. Also, some premature AI files are made for different major countries.
New Techs!
Post me your ideas what techs/doctriens should replace existing tech's.
*silently moves to TGW sub-form*
Post me your ideas what techs/doctriens should replace existing tech's.
*silently moves to TGW sub-form*
On the military sides somes things that need looking into are:
1) Russian mobilization and military capacity in 1914. They start out much too strong. Unfortunatelly I don't have a 1914 order of battle or detailed history so I can't help with the details. One thing that could fix some problems might be to have Russian forces in the west start at reduced strength (with enough replacements available though). That way any Russian offensive would be delayed.
2) German order of battle and probably strength. Several German divisions raised during the war, but after august 1914 seem to be included in the scenario at start. I can probably provide a complete list of existing divisions at start. German divisions might also start too strong (but that's an unfortunate factor of the rigid system used in Victoria, but then gain I might know of a simple way to fix it). Yes German divisions were large (more important they were pretty efficient), but they were not that large (they were square divisions of two brigades of two regiments each, they had a strong cavalry component and the line units had over 70 pieces of field artillery).
3) The Belgian army had a greater capacity (but it's mobilization was too slow), probably all it's divisions should be duplicated at start (but not at full strength), also providing sufficient manpower to fill those units up (if Belgium wishes to fight the Germans with 0 morale units.
4) The French army probably should start closer to the front (yes those divisions were mobilizing, but they should mobilize close to the border, not at their garrison locations). Again the lower readiness could be simulated by starting the units at low effective with a large enough pool of manpower...
5) I haven't looked into the British setup yet. Though I recall from the one time I played Britain that the Indian army as well as British regulars outside Europe are a mess in Victoria.
6) The Austro-Hungarian army seems awfully weak in the 1914 scenario, though that could be correct.
7) Canada, the US and Bulgaria probably should have double sized divisions like Germany (and Belgium). All those countries fielded huge units. But that raises another issue, what does Victoria manpower represent, rifle strength or strength including rear area units?
Marc aka Caran...
P.S.: I might have detailed info for additional cpountries as well if needed. Possibly also on the fleets.
1) Russian mobilization and military capacity in 1914. They start out much too strong. Unfortunatelly I don't have a 1914 order of battle or detailed history so I can't help with the details. One thing that could fix some problems might be to have Russian forces in the west start at reduced strength (with enough replacements available though). That way any Russian offensive would be delayed.
2) German order of battle and probably strength. Several German divisions raised during the war, but after august 1914 seem to be included in the scenario at start. I can probably provide a complete list of existing divisions at start. German divisions might also start too strong (but that's an unfortunate factor of the rigid system used in Victoria, but then gain I might know of a simple way to fix it). Yes German divisions were large (more important they were pretty efficient), but they were not that large (they were square divisions of two brigades of two regiments each, they had a strong cavalry component and the line units had over 70 pieces of field artillery).
3) The Belgian army had a greater capacity (but it's mobilization was too slow), probably all it's divisions should be duplicated at start (but not at full strength), also providing sufficient manpower to fill those units up (if Belgium wishes to fight the Germans with 0 morale units
.4) The French army probably should start closer to the front (yes those divisions were mobilizing, but they should mobilize close to the border, not at their garrison locations). Again the lower readiness could be simulated by starting the units at low effective with a large enough pool of manpower...
5) I haven't looked into the British setup yet. Though I recall from the one time I played Britain that the Indian army as well as British regulars outside Europe are a mess in Victoria.
6) The Austro-Hungarian army seems awfully weak in the 1914 scenario, though that could be correct.
7) Canada, the US and Bulgaria probably should have double sized divisions like Germany (and Belgium). All those countries fielded huge units. But that raises another issue, what does Victoria manpower represent, rifle strength or strength including rear area units?
Marc aka Caran...
P.S.: I might have detailed info for additional cpountries as well if needed. Possibly also on the fleets.
While the OOB's from HOI:TGW are wonderfull, they do not take into account what is already present in the Victoria scenario. I think it might be best to start by checking what Victoria already has against what was really there. I have drawn up an OOB for the UK's land forces, and will be doing the same for its navy, and a few other powers. These OOB's are what are currently in the game, not actually what they had.
With these it would be easier, in my oppinion, to change to what they actually had. Rather then go through and revamp all the militaries, we can just edit what needs to be edited. That is, if that sounds good to those running it. I figured I would pop in and help in this way, if you wanted it.
With these it would be easier, in my oppinion, to change to what they actually had. Rather then go through and revamp all the militaries, we can just edit what needs to be edited. That is, if that sounds good to those running it. I figured I would pop in and help in this way, if you wanted it.
I never played HOI:TGW so I have no idea what their scenario looks like (maybe I will download it and try it sometime).
I agree that rebuilding the oob should happen from country to country. For some we might not be able to create a better starts, but for others we could have more material available then Paradox had. For WWI I don't really have any excellent books, no great websites either, but for Germany at least I could probably create a much more accurate land oob. The same applies to Britain. I'd be using various books plus game information (GRD's WWI games are pretty good (though I don't always agree with their design process (for the WWII Europa games)).
But I still don't know how much time I'd have to help out on this project. Possibly I could not do any more then provide actual unit information and a general philosophy how to determine their organisation in Victoria (for instance, I agree with Victoria's organising German 1914 division in 2 brigades, but would not give them attachments based on their divisional assets only).
Marc aka Caran...
P.S.: I'm currently looking into creating a comprehensive oob for a WWI board game (a project I re-opened because of Victoria), so at this time I am already working on a related concept.
I agree that rebuilding the oob should happen from country to country. For some we might not be able to create a better starts, but for others we could have more material available then Paradox had. For WWI I don't really have any excellent books, no great websites either, but for Germany at least I could probably create a much more accurate land oob. The same applies to Britain. I'd be using various books plus game information (GRD's WWI games are pretty good (though I don't always agree with their design process (for the WWII Europa games)).
But I still don't know how much time I'd have to help out on this project. Possibly I could not do any more then provide actual unit information and a general philosophy how to determine their organisation in Victoria (for instance, I agree with Victoria's organising German 1914 division in 2 brigades, but would not give them attachments based on their divisional assets only).
Marc aka Caran...
P.S.: I'm currently looking into creating a comprehensive oob for a WWI board game (a project I re-opened because of Victoria), so at this time I am already working on a related concept.
Twisted_Mentat said:
I disagree with tha whole sequence. If this concept was to be worked on (within a 1914 scenario) a more realistic sucession of events would have to occur. For instance, whatever France would have done in august 1914, Germany would have attacked anyhow (as Moltke the younger was too set on the modified Schlieffen plan). Britain also did not join the war because of the Russian-French-British alliance, rather on the pretext of Germany having violated Belgian neutrality (this is where the HOi concept of war readiness or whatever the term was would come in nicely, the british government could not have persuaded it's people or even parliament to go to war for Russia, or even for France). Russia never actually decided to go to war over Serbia (it only mobilized), it was Germany and Austria who declared that war.
Finally, Russia's ties to Germany were as strong as Britain's. The three sovereigns kept in close contact (via mail) until the war actully started.
The whole sequene of events leading to the Great war were pretty complex. I think they could be portrayed in game, but how to handle alternative paths could be problematic (first question is, will Germany support teh Austrian ultimatum to Serbia, which is where all the trouble started, if Germany does not support Austria what happens? ...).
Marc aka Caran...
P.S.: Remember most countries that participated in the Great War have slightly to largely differing views on the causes of said war. But since about the 1960s a common line of thought has formed among historians. Strangely enough, this does not seem to have universally trickled down to the general population. I expect that's in part due to errors of the historians (who work at the high school educational levels, but also a general failure to adapt to new media forms), political correctness as well as conservative pressure (against a rewritting of official history) in some countries have been as much the cause for this differening view between academia and society in general.
Duritz said:
1} I like the idea of conscription causing increased militancy in the population. However, Australia wasn't the only one to have that issue. Conscription caused a political crisis in Canada that ripped apart the opposition Liberal Party, as well as leading to deadly riots by unionists/socialists and Franco-Canadians {who, for the most part, opposed conscription}.
2} {I raised the following issue in Austria, but I like redundancy} Shouldn't Austria be Austria-Hungary? The flag is in the Victoria gfx subfile, so I'm not sure why it wasn't implemented for the 1881 and 1914 scenarios {Austria became Austria-Hungary in 1867 after the defeat of the Seven Weeks War}. There's no battle flag, however, and that would need to be made. Noticed that when I finally got the Austro-Hungarian flag working, but no flag over my armies.
Thanks.
I think this scenario should be made for the 1861 and 1881 sdenario,simply because this scenario will rock if you make it right.Just look at TGW for HOI.You should hire Allenby for this !
Every scenario will rock... it is just a matter of free time to do it...Wilhelm VI said:
But i wanna see a proper 1914 scenario! I wanna get this scenario up and running.Beside the other two are easy to make compared to this one.I wanna help and so forth.Anyone agree with me ?
Getting this scenario up and running again !
Hello there,first i apologize that i post in here.But now to the buisness.I think this scenario should be made before the other two scenario's.Mainly because their need to be a lot of events in this scenario.And another thing:I just cant stand the current WW1 scenario !I just hate it.Its unrealistic.I cant wait anymore .There need to be a good WW1 scenario for Victoria !
Hello there,first i apologize that i post in here.But now to the buisness.I think this scenario should be made before the other two scenario's.Mainly because their need to be a lot of events in this scenario.And another thing:I just cant stand the current WW1 scenario !I just hate it.Its unrealistic.I cant wait anymore .There need to be a good WW1 scenario for Victoria !