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I have to say that beserk is a state of mind that you can effect with the right stimulas, given the right stimulus most if not all could tap into its effect. In nordic acounts i believe it also appears to be more common in some familys, although i dont recall where i read that.
Hannibal
Hannibal
I looked it up, and found that I must correct myself.Tyr was the son of Odin, and somewhat similar to Zeus in his role. He was seen as a variant of Mars by the romans, so now the latin dies Marti (day of Mars, Tuesday) is the nordic tirsdag (day of Tyr).
And by the way, Balder and Odin had no reason to figth since Balder was Odins son!
And by the way, Balder and Odin had no reason to figth since Balder was Odins son!
Yes and no. Tirsdag (Tuesday) got it's name from the god Tyr, who was seen as a variant of Mars. But Tyr wasn't Odin's son (you are thinking about Thor - who was seen as a variant of Jupiter, btw).
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What would be the relations of celts and vikings then? Though the older pagan celts were very different from vikings the christian celts and vikings had lots of similarities. What did celts inherit from vikings and what did vikings inherit from celts. I've noticed that sometimes their arts look quite similar.
I know the difference between Tor and Tyr, but according to The Great Danish Encyklopedia, Tyr was also the son of Odin.
Well, Snorre Sturlasson mentions that Tyr was the son of Odin, but according to "The Elder Edda" Tyr was the son of a jotun/giant. What's correct?
I guess no one can say for sure who Tyr really was, because we simply don't know enough about him. The only thing scholars seem to agree about is that Tyr was probably a former major god which role was reduced over time (as mentioned earlier in this thread).
Anyway, you said that:
And this is the point I was pointing out: Tyr was not "somewhat similar" to Zeus. It's Thor that has been compared to Zeus/Jupiter (the god with the thunderbolt). Tyr has been compared to Ares/Mars, because of his role as a god of war.
As I've understood it Tyr is the norse version of the germanic god Tiwaz who in turn is the same god as Zeus in an indo-european context. There is a striking resemblance between the names Tiwaz and Zeus.
Actually I have seen theories that Thor was Tiwaz.
But it might be possible that Tor and Tyr originate from the same source.
I guess that would make Odin the same as Saturn (do resemble him a bit, so properly not that unrealistic).
What do all of you say about this, is it likely.
Teotonic people and celts
Before the Roman expansion Teutonic peoples (tribes) in western Europe had direct borders to continental Celts. The routes of trade from the northern area of Teutonic tribes, Scandinavia, led through Germany over the Alps to the Mediterranean area. So there was actually contacts already some hundred years before the Viking period.
The arts was developed in Scandinavia but also copied from Celtic and Mediterranean musters through trade contact etc.
Despite lack of older written material in Scandinavia it is hard to do any excact statements of what was taken from here and there. Bu archeologic findings show us at least that there was connections/contacts between Scandinavia and Souther/Western Europe already during the Bronze age.
Before the Roman expansion Teutonic peoples (tribes) in western Europe had direct borders to continental Celts. The routes of trade from the northern area of Teutonic tribes, Scandinavia, led through Germany over the Alps to the Mediterranean area. So there was actually contacts already some hundred years before the Viking period.
The arts was developed in Scandinavia but also copied from Celtic and Mediterranean musters through trade contact etc.
Despite lack of older written material in Scandinavia it is hard to do any excact statements of what was taken from here and there. Bu archeologic findings show us at least that there was connections/contacts between Scandinavia and Souther/Western Europe already during the Bronze age.
Yes, there are a lot of theories around.
Some of them will maybe even point out that both Thor and Tyr are different aspects of Odin himself. But that's still just theories. I am referring to what the myths can tell us, and not to all kind of theories that no one can prove right.
Quite possible, really. But we'll never know for sure, will we?
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Re: Teotonic people and celts
True, I think it was the germanic tribe cimmerians who taught celts the art of iron making.
Re: Re: Teotonic people and celts
The first iron making, in Europe and Mid-East, was made by the Hettites. And the was spread westwards to Greece though Asia Minor.
The celts invaded Europe earlier but had trade connections to the Mediterranean and lived by it. The cimmerians was not a teutonic people but a iranian or celtic people. Living on the Russian steppe and Balkan down to Thrace so by geography you may have right.
The teutonic tribes lived in the land from Donau up to mid Scandinavia and from Rhine to Oder or upper Weichsel in that time.
The first iron making, in Europe and Mid-East, was made by the Hettites. And the was spread westwards to Greece though Asia Minor.
The celts invaded Europe earlier but had trade connections to the Mediterranean and lived by it. The cimmerians was not a teutonic people but a iranian or celtic people. Living on the Russian steppe and Balkan down to Thrace so by geography you may have right.
The teutonic tribes lived in the land from Donau up to mid Scandinavia and from Rhine to Oder or upper Weichsel in that time.
Heh, I was thinking of Robert E. Howards "history" writings.
They lived somewhere in the ukraine or southern russia. Were they celts or not they taught(presumably) the celts in western and central europe the iron making, horseback riding, longswords etc.
They lived somewhere in the ukraine or southern russia. Were they celts or not they taught(presumably) the celts in western and central europe the iron making, horseback riding, longswords etc.
Cimbri and Cimmerian
There was a teutonic tribe called "Cimbri" living probably in to days south Jutland in 2nd century BC, defeated by Marius at Vercellae in to days northern Italy 101 BC.
But there were also Cimmerians which was a indo-european tribe on the russian steppes defeated by the Scytes. And coming through Caucasus into Asia Minor and through Balkan into Celtian territiry in 8 th century BC. They were the tribe which learned Celts, Teutones and Slave the use of iron around 800 BC.
There was a teutonic tribe called "Cimbri" living probably in to days south Jutland in 2nd century BC, defeated by Marius at Vercellae in to days northern Italy 101 BC.
But there were also Cimmerians which was a indo-european tribe on the russian steppes defeated by the Scytes. And coming through Caucasus into Asia Minor and through Balkan into Celtian territiry in 8 th century BC. They were the tribe which learned Celts, Teutones and Slave the use of iron around 800 BC.
Well R.E. Howard put them somewhere in denmark, southern sweden and estonia but though he used real historical tribes etc. he usually made everything up, and he wrote his texts in 1920's and 30's
Old books tend to mix tribes up with each other. Mostly due to less research.
Some old books tend to say that the Goths came from Gotland. And if you consider that all Scandinavia had approx. 1 M inhabitants around year 1000 and the calculate back to 1st or 2nd century AD you will have some 5-600 k. The Goths which invaded eastern Roman territory were estimated to be some 50-200 k.
Some old books tend to say that the Goths came from Gotland. And if you consider that all Scandinavia had approx. 1 M inhabitants around year 1000 and the calculate back to 1st or 2nd century AD you will have some 5-600 k. The Goths which invaded eastern Roman territory were estimated to be some 50-200 k.
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Re: Cimbri and Cimmerian
Popular nationalistic history writing around the turn of the century (not the latest) wanted the Cimbri to originate in Scania. There was even a movement for changing the spelling of Simrishamn to Cimbrishamn. You can try looking for them - Götiska förbundet (Geatic society)