Victorious China should have an event to peace with Japan

[ELPhantomII]

The problem for me isn't that I can't do the home landings in Japan. With enough time, I can gain air superiority and para-drop my way into Nagasaki. The problem is that that usually takes too long and Japan joins the Axis powers (which doesn't make sense: Germany only "declared" against China because Japan was the stronger combatant). I don't want to have to wait for the European theater to finish, or worse, have to take care of things myself, when my war is over.

 

[Misaka_Complex]

Maybe he wouldn't be interested in annexing Korea, but he would certainly NOT be inclined to let Japan keep territories on the continent. However, I think he might have been more insistant on retrieving Taiwan.

The part that he wouldn't want Japan to keep territory on the continent yes, but in regards to Taiwan I don't think there is any way he can take it back given that the Japanese had total naval supremacy. However I think it would be quite interesting if there was the option for Japan to keep Korea and cede Taiwan to Chiang instead .

 

[Temudhun Khan]

The part that he wouldn't want Japan to keep territory on the continent yes, but in regards to Taiwan I don't think there is any way he can take it back given that the Japanese had total naval supremacy. However I think it would be quite interesting if there was the option for Japan to keep Korea and cede Taiwan to Chiang instead .

Yeah, I didn't mean he wouldn't have stopped the war until Chinese soldiers could set foot on Taiwan, I mean he wouldn't have stopped until Japan would have agreed to cede all territories considered as Chinese.

 

[Karbinder]

There should be different options when offering peace instead of the single option of self-capitulation. I'd suggest having the options to:
a. Whitepeace (everyone keeps the territories they started with).
b. Offering land in return for peace.
c. Requesting land in return for peace.
d. Surrendering and letting them do whatever they want with the rotting corpse of a country that you have left.
etc.

The AI would accept offers depending on how they are doing in the war. If they are losing, they'd be more inclined to give up land. If they are winning, they'd be more inclined to take land. So on and so forth.

 

[TheDungen]

All in all I dislike that total defeat is the only option in the game.

 

[Misaka_Complex]

Yeah, I didn't mean he wouldn't have stopped the war until Chinese soldiers could set foot on Taiwan, I mean he wouldn't have stopped until Japan would have agreed to cede all territories considered as Chinese.

He can keep going all he wants but without a navy its not possible for Chiang to take Taiwan from Japan and according to China (even back then) Taiwan is supposed to be considered as "Chinese territory."

 

[Temudhun Khan]

He can keep going all he wants but without a navy its not possible for Chiang to take Taiwan from Japan and according to China (even back then) Taiwan is supposed to be considered as "Chinese territory."

You know you don't need to actually occupy a land to ask for it to be ceded in a peace conference?

 

[Misaka_Complex]

You know you don't need to actually occupy a land to ask for it to be ceded in a peace conference?

In the game yes, but basing an event which demands a place where the Kuomintang can't possibly reach is pointless, because if Chiang has the means to conquer Taiwan he might as well ditch any peace efforts and conquer the Japanese mainlands. Not to mention how unlikely it is for Japan to agree ceding Taiwan to Chiang knowing that even if he "fights on" he will never be able to conquer Taiwan unless they make a deal where Japan holds onto Korea in exchange for Taiwan. My question is why would Japan simply cede Taiwan to Chiang when they know that Chiang doesn't have the means to threaten the Japanese mainlands or take Taiwan?

 

[Temudhun Khan]

Yes, but if he just kicked the Japanese out of the continent, he could perfectly go "Look, you can waste huge amount of ressources and human lives to come back, but since it didn't work so well when you controled an entire front we both know this won't happen anymore, or you could make a peace deal in our favor. But if you insist on keeping this rightfully Chinese island which isn't Japanese core and doesn't provide you manpower or ressources, we will keep going. Yes, you will lose your face, but guess what? You already did."

 

[Misaka_Complex]

we will keep going. Yes, you will lose your face, but guess what? You already did."

So.. how does Chiang continuing the war going to pose any threat to the Japanese homelands, to Taiwan or any islands? Let's not forget that China doesn't really have a navy and Japan had overwhelming naval superiority since we are talking about the 2nd Sino Japanese war and not WW2 where China has the help of the allied navy. My point is that its unrealistic for Japan to cede Taiwan to China knowing that Chiang can never set foot there, so there is no reason for Japan to simply hand it over without gaining something back. Japan doesn't have to do another invasion to take back Manchuria just because Chiang wants to continue they can just sit on their main islands and Taiwan all day without Chiang being able to do anything about it. You can't base events on the Japanese AI continuously suiciding divisions against China even after they lose their grip on the continent.

 

[Temudhun Khan]

On the long run, China win the staring contest. If they just sit facing each other across the sea, China can now use its whole manpower and an industry revigorated by the inclusion of Manchukuo and Korea, while Japan is missing what China just gained and possibly have UK, USA and/or USSR breathing on its neck. It can't move on either to another war, Hokushin-ron would open a new front with the Chinese and Nanshin-ron would mobilize the float it would now need to keep the Chinese on the continent.

 

[Misaka_Complex]

You seem to be forgetting that China still has a civil war to fight, and while I agree that China wins the staring contest in the decades to come, the scope of the game is around the timeline of WW2 unless you talk about mods such as Iron Curtain or Millennial Dawn. Since Japan loses Manchukuo USSR won't be a threat and the Allies would have a different diplomatic stance against Japan since they have been defeated in Asia (aka no more threat of a Japanese expansion since Japan won't likely be waging more wars after suffering a huge defeat in China). Since China had strong ties with Germany prior to 1941 which Hitler would not sever when seeing that China won, Japan might even join the war on the side of the Allies and China on the side of Germany in the situation where China kicks Japan off the mainland which is quite an interesting scenario. Let's not forget that Japan was a close ally of the UK until the Allies condemned the Japanese expansion in China, and a Japanese defeat would bring them closer to the Allies and Germany was actually an enemy of Japan in WW1.

While this discussion is interesting I still don't see how it is related to Japan ceding Taiwan to China after losing their holds on the mainland. Let's remember that Mao was still unable to take Taiwan even after winning the civil war and gaining all of the lands when Chiang didn't really have a navy, so that goes to show you how impossible it would be for Chiang to take Taiwan with the presence of the of imperial Japanese navy.

 

[imvdm]

I agree with the OP as well as that there should be different level of outcome depending on the state of the war and degree of Chinese success on the continent:
1. White peace
2. Japanese retreats from inner China and the disbandment of Mengjiang
3. Return of the Northeast provinces
4. Korea for Taiwan.
Again, the main focus of the Sino-Japanese war should be decided on the continent. Not a historically impossible invasion of the Japanese home islands