Victoria map question

[Syt]

This thread is moving quite off topic, but I feel I should say a word or two here.

The differences between Tunch Khan and Patric have been cleared on page two of the thread, and I think Patric explained his harsh reaction well.

As for only yes-people being welcome... if it were so, the beta tests would have no impact on the game, as there'd be no criticism from the betas in them. Seriously, constructive criticism is welcome, if brought up in a calm manner. Input from the commnity is one of the main factors contributing to the evolution of HoI and EU2, and, likely over time, Victoria. As for double standards... I strive to not have them and remain impartial.

But I really think we should return on topic now.

 

[Dinsdale]

Re: Double standard

Originally posted by Lycortas2
I belong to several other History/Historical gaming forums and it is commonly talked about that only yes-men are welcome on the Paradox boards.

Lycortas, I have to take issue with this statement. I've been highly critical on both the HOI and EU2 fora and have never felt that Paradox employees or mods have treated me any differently than posters who are always gushing in Paradox praise.

------------------

Maybe Paradox could be cut a little slack, I would assume that having just completed the gold version their staff were not expecting so many negative threads, particularly as no one outside the beta group have actually played it yet.

There are a few features every Paradox game has had in common I'm sure Victoria will be no different;

1) The map will never please everyone
2) Flags/Monarchs/Colours/Icons etc will not please everyone
3) Events, historical inaccuracies, game balance, typos, province/state/city names will not please everyone.

This community is remarkably knowledgeable, and perhaps the most civil I have encountered since lurking here a couple of years ago. If the past is any guide the community will;

1) Create an unofficial mod which becomes the de facto game standard.
2) All the minor issues outlined above will either be dealt with there, or by Paradox based on feedback from the likes of Tunch, Halibutt and others.

Finally, Paradox will stick around and patch this game until it meets there (and that usually coincides with our) satisfaction.

So with all that inevitable, along with 1000 post debates about Poland, The Balkans and Canada is it possible to wait until getting and playing the game before the discussions should really begin?

 

[unmerged(10371)]

whoa! great post dinsdale, much better than i could of said!

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by Sytass

The differences between Tunch Khan and Patric have been cleared on page two of the thread, and I think Patric explained his harsh reaction well.

Page three for those of us who have set 10 posts to a page.


Also, given that this thread has remained open, it seems odd to complain about only "yes-men" being allowed. Criticism is perfectly acceptable so long as it's reasonable.

 

[ptan54]

Three threads containing my name have been closed.....

Just controversial topics, and you want to avoid wars around here, or other reasons that I can't come up with for now?

 

[unmerged(12388)]

Perhaps when the nice people at Paradox get to making their next game of this scale they will let us see the map "before it's too late" so that we could point out all obvious .. erm... errors

 

[unmerged(10371)]

Originally posted by General FUp
Perhaps when the nice people at Paradox get to making their next game of this scale they will let us see the map "before it's too late" so that we could point out all obvious .. erm... errors

i doubt there will be errors, the beta people are good and the people that work here know what they are doing so....

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by ptan54
Three threads containing my name have been closed.....

Just controversial topics, and you want to avoid wars around here, or other reasons that I can't come up with for now?

Because you and others were practically flaming each other.

Note that two of them were closed because of a debate over the use of "civilized" that couldn't be kept civil.

 

[unmerged(12388)]

Originally posted by vcarter707
i doubt there will be errors, the beta people are good and the people that work here know what they are doing so....

But I've already found errors Check my previous posts for reference

 

[Halibutt]

Originally posted by vcarter707
i doubt there will be errors, the beta people are good and the people that work here know what they are doing so....

The problem is that it's yet another Paradox game that has some map issues that passed through both Paradox and beta control unnoticed.
From Patrics comments (Would it have been so if we had asked you & we will not consult anyone outside the beta group) I assumed that either the betas are competent or that Patric thinks I want to join the betas. Therefore a disclaimer is needed: the betas were not competent and I have no intention on joining any beta group as I simply have no time for it. It's not a case of "the map will never please all players" since the way it is now the map (I'm speaking only about the centrel-european part of it) will please only the I-don't-care players. There are obvious errors and (correct me if I'm wrong) they would not be changed by any mods as the map is apparently hard-coded. The idea of having a short discussion before it's too late seems much more plausible to me than the present system (the map is already made and we will not consult anyone on that).
Cheers

 

[Dinsdale]

Halibutt,

Even if every error was corrected, there would still not be universal consent that the map was correct. There were until recently arguements going still about the EU2 map.

It is too late for map changes (at least until a patch) as the game has gone gold. Why not wait for the game (screenshots may not be the latest map) and then begin the process of corrections.

Aren't province names moddable now and will show up on the map?

 

[Halibutt]

Originally posted by Dinsdale
Even if every error was corrected, there would still not be universal consent that the map was correct. There were until recently arguements going still about the EU2 map.

The whole problem is that if they corrected the map there could've been discussions about which version should be used or which name was more popular. The way it is now there will be discussions about "why the heck did they named a province after a non-existent city. You can discuss things when there are supporters of different theses. There's no place for discussions where the two opposing factions are 'it's wrong' and 'who cares'.

It is too late for map changes (at least until a patch) as the game has gone gold. Why not wait for the game (screenshots may not be the latest map) and then begin the process of corrections.

From what I understood, the map is not moddable, hard-coded in the early stages of the game, thus cannot (and will not) be changed. That's why I assumed that the beta version map is the same as the final release map. If I'm wrong in any of my thoughts - please correct me.
Cheers

 

[MRAKoris]

Originally posted by bmk1st
People buy games to conquer countries, not to learn about geography!

Nice argument! Then each time you want to unleash war upon your enemy, you will have to explain to your troops personally where this or that province is and how it's called to attack a proper enemy - and maybe give each soldier a map and let them find the way for themselves


Cheers,

 

[MegaPIMP]

The soldiers don't need to know the name of the province, just point in its direction and say to them:

"When you find some enemy's shoot, try to take any town you happen to see"


later at the north pole

"*brrr* sir, I think we went the wrong way, africa is supposed to be hot you know"

"Ohh...damn...."

 

[unmerged(10385)]

I have to agree with jools, jesus christ its a fucking map do you really look at it that hard and go OMG LOOK THAT PLACE IN POLAND ITS GOT AN A INSTEAD OF AN E OR ITS NOT IN RIGHT SPOT. *sry for caps but cmon* now no offense but I think paradox has to fix other bugs with vicky instead of worry about a few ppl who are keen to have a map that is 100% perfect.

 

[Halibutt]

Originally posted by AngryJawaII
I have to agree with jools, jesus christ its a fucking map do you really look at it that hard and go OMG LOOK THAT PLACE IN POLAND ITS GOT AN A INSTEAD OF AN E OR ITS NOT IN RIGHT SPOT. *sry for caps but cmon* now no offense but I think paradox has to fix other bugs with vicky instead of worry about a few ppl who are keen to have a map that is 100% perfect.

Listen, how would you feel if the place you live in was named Qwertz instead of New York or London? I do not complain about the typos (which are quite numerous, BTW)...
Cheers

BTW, and before you support Jools, check what the eals did to his hoovercraft.