Victoria 3 Wishlist, Immigration Quotas

[Onetok6]

The time span that the Victoria games cover, has to be one of the most xenophobic periods in human history. People of different cultures, ethnicity and races were neglected and sometimes even barred entry into a country, due to their heritage. Countries with strict nativist laws and immigration such as the US, blocked countless desperate people from entering the nation, with backgrounds as varied as African to Irish to Chinese to Polish. Western nations geared their laws to preserve what they called "ethnic purity", so its no surprise that immigration played a very important and vital role during this period. All of this considered, it comes to me as a surprise that immigration laws and policy were somewhat neglected and shallow in the Victoria 2 game, which is strange when you take into account how much immigration mattered for the Americas, Australia, South Africa and so on. I think a lot of this could be remedied with an immigration quota system, that would allow you to bar certain ethnic and cultural groups from entry into the country. Yes, having the ability to finally create an ethnically pure Zulu/Russian mixed nation would be kinda cool, and would also more accurately represent the times. I think that having a quota system where you can set preferences for certain ethnicities or countries should look like the image below, where the more bars you put towards a nation, the higher your chance will be of getting only their immigrants, while putting no bars towards a nation, blocks their immigrants from getting in entirely. Having this in Victoria 3 would be amazing, but it would also be cool to mod this into Victoria 2.

 

[Teutonic_Knight]

I think certain parties would have to have certain immigration policies too, both for more realism, and to prevent players from just opening the gates.

 

[Onetok6]

I think certain parties would have to have certain immigration policies too, both for more realism, and to prevent players from just opening the gates.

True, if reactionary and or fascist parties get into power, the immigration quota bars should be grayed out, so nobody can immigrate in unless they are part of your culture. If liberal or conservative parties come in, you should have a lot of leeway when dealing with who you do and who you don't want coming into the country, and you should be able to change the immigration quota bar on your own whim. And if a communist or socialist party comes to power, the immigration bar should be capped for all nations and ethnicities, seeing as their ideology does not discriminate and bar immigration along ethnic lines. This immigration quota option would be especially helpful for nations like the Boer states, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, and it would also be cool if you could encourage this kind of immigration to specific regions in your country, like your colonies for example. One last thing, barring certain ethnic groups from entering your nation should lower your diplomacy with the countries you are barring.

 

[Nick Giordano]

Yes, having the ability to finally create an ethnically pure Zulu/Russian mixed nation would be kinda cool, and would also more accurately represent the times.

A ridiculous alt-history suggestion and historical accuracy in the same sentence? You realize what you just said, right? Why would the Russian aristocracy prefer Africans over their Slavic cousins? Or why would the Zulus want more white imperialists running around? You can't have a mechanic be historically accurate and be able to do unrealistic things like that.

Besides, I'm willing to bet Paradox is against mechanics like these. You're going to have to look for 3rd-party modders, because I don't think such a mod would be allowed to be posted here.

 

[Onetok6]

A ridiculous alt-history suggestion and historical accuracy in the same sentence? You realize what you just said, right? Why would the Russian aristocracy prefer Africans over their Slavic cousins? Or why would the Zulus want more white imperialists running around? You can't have a mechanic be historically accurate and be able to do unrealistic things like that.

Besides, I'm willing to bet Paradox is against mechanics like these. You're going to have to look for 3rd-party modders, because I don't think such a mod would be allowed to be posted here.

Relax, it was a joke, ever heard of them? You do not need to be so hostile, its a video game forum for christs sake. I know that a situation like that would be historically inaccurate but I doubt paradox will be against a mechanic like this, especially when they include things like slavery and the trail of tears in their games. Besides, one of the big gripes I have (and i am sure others have) with Victoria 2 is that it does not give you enough direct control over your population, this would be a step in the right direction in my opinion.

 

[Orlov Kruskayev]

Besides, I'm willing to bet Paradox is against mechanics like these. You're going to have to look for 3rd-party modders, because I don't think such a mod would be allowed to be posted here.

This, pretty much. Don't think that's ever coming off of Paradox themselves.


I do realize it would be most historical, but really, that would need a whole revamp. Portuguese people had an easier time going to Brazil in relation to Spanish and Italian settlers, who had themselves it easier than German or Japanese settlers. In America, Portuguese or Italians would have it harder than Irish or English, etc. All because of cultural acquaintances and language. Historically, the new world countries would just open the gates, but the option to close them could be there indeed, and later on they often did.

Eh well.

 

[Onetok6]

This, pretty much. Don't think that's ever coming off of Paradox themselves.


I do realize it would be most historical, but really, that would need a whole revamp. Portuguese people had an easier time going to Brazil in relation to Spanish and Italian settlers, who had themselves it easier than German or Japanese settlers. In America, Portuguese or Italians would have it harder than Irish or English, etc. All because of cultural acquaintances and language. Historically, the new world countries would just open the gates, but the option to close them could be there indeed, and later on they often did.

Eh well.

True, do you think paradox would include a system where you can bar off certain ethnic groups, or would that also be something out of their comfort zone? I just find it strange that they include scenarios like manifest destiny, the genocide of the natives, and slavery, but for some reason feel that immigration quotas is a step to far.

 

[Rhylsaldar]

What i can see/accept would be some kind of minority control/displacement. Chocking ?

1st Historical events... AND it was more than 1 century ago
2nd Demographic and control is a huge part of the gameplay
3rd Without more control of population would be like FPS without sidearm handgun. really not necessary but not really fun.

I would like more population control than education, industrial development, colonial migration, and bureaucrates.
Other example could be in Heart of iron the "heart" (heheh!) of the gameplay is about army control you can control macro but have to manage at micro level to why this could not be into Vicky about demographic control

Those can have political and demographic event/international and internal sanction ect... Why it is chocking you ? so that you can shoot random guys in a game but no active segregation in a game ?

 

[badbromance]

An unpleasant part of Western history, but a part nonetheless.

Pretending that xenophobia wasn't at the core of our immigration policies for many, many years won't make that issue go away, and the game suffers in historicity because of its exclusion. It's not up to Paradox to rewrite history and whitewash over the foul bits while designing their games.

I'd be alright with decisions mirroring the real-life ones (such as the bunch of "Yellow Peril" laws enacted in both the USA and Canada) instead of a full-fledged system where you get to choose who to ban from your country.

 

[Edungeon]

In Victoria 1 I think that the party policy influenced your immigration attraction (Residency, Full Citizenship and so on). I think that this is the best abstraction in this situation.

 

[metalinvader665]

Immigration should definitely be better modeled. Certain ethnicities should have certain preferences in terms of countries (Spanish immigration was mostly toward Latin America and not to the US, for instance). Immigration policy should be by political party, especially in the US where immigration was often more restrictive than Latin America for instance (many Italians ended up in Brazil and Argentina because they found it too hard to immigrate to the US), especially later on. Certain countries should also be sending fewer immigrants in general, particularly China, which in one game sent my country alone over 100,000 immigrants a month for several months.

 

[Jorlaan]

I want NO immigration quotas. I want as many immigrants as possible to make my country as large and powerful as possible. Considering that people typically assimilate easily in most countries that actually GET immigrants I really fail to see a problem from a game standpoint. In real life yeah OK quotas are fine. In a game where population is king however? Bloody no.

 

[unmerged(766182)]

yes we need VICTORIA 3!

 

[pontifex_medius]

Immigration should be reworked, but not to the extent suggested here. People who migrated at this time usually adjusted to the recipient country. When people didn't migrate much from e.g. Russia to Sweden, it was mostly because Russians weren't that well received and thus chose other countries to migrate to. It would make more sense to add a modifier to the likeliness of certain groups to migrate wherever.

And if a communist or socialist party comes to power, the immigration bar should be capped for all nations and ethnicities, seeing as their ideology does not discriminate and bar immigration along ethnic lines.

The Soviets didn't want to attract the disgruntled masses of other countries. They wanted the disgruntled masses in other countries to organize themselves and create socialism. Obviously the Soviet Union accepted immigrants, but if they were successful enough to attract a lot of people, I have no doubt they would have shut the borders eventually, telling the would-be immigrants to improve the conditions in their respective home countries.

 

[unmerged(619640)]

I would like to see that minorities in other countries would move to countries where there culture accepted is (if met the requirements).

So for example: Poland is released from Russia, normally the polish pops from Prussia will move to the Americas but now they will move to Poland.In the old system they move to the Usa and assimilate but wouldn`t it make more sense if they would move to a country that ''accepts'' them?