Victoria 3 | Monthly Update #9 | March

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wilcoxchar

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Who's gonna tell this one that the discussion is about war screenshot and not diplomatic play screenshot?

We are concerned about total wars starting for absurd reasons, not diplomatic plays. We yet have to see any sort of proof of what they promised - that war is costly and because of that all out wars will be rare.
You do realize that wars start because of diplomatic plays, right?

We have no idea what the scope of this war actually is, so your assumption that it's a "total war" is completely unfounded. The stakes of a war are determined by what wen on during the diplomatic play, and since we know nothing about the diplomatic play,

So you are specifically cherry picking a case without knowing the full necessary context to understand what's happening, and then when presented with that context, you're dismissing it out of hand because it doesn't support your narrative.

But let's take a look at another case where we do know more of that context, from the peace deal dev diary.

"This rebellion against Britain has turned into something of a brush war between the European Great Powers, with limited fighting in the colonies between Britain and its enemy France. War Support remains high, but if things take a bloodier turn both sides may find their populations quickly growing weary of the fighting."
DD26_3.png


Here is what most wars where great powers are backing colonial rebellions or small colonial states will probably look like. We have France and Austria backing Kanak against Great Britain, similar to Germany backing Tibesti against France. Now, in most cases like this, the other great powers, Germany in the Tibesti case and France and Austria in the Kanak case, will be non-negotiating participants. Which means, guess what, invading mainland Germany as France or invading France or Austria as Britain will not help the attacker in the war at all because Germany has no sway in the peace deal, so there is no reason to push on those fronts or involve troops beyond a defending action. Nor will capitulating as Germany, or as France or Austria in the Tibesti case, actually matter except for damaging its relations with a minor colony, so there's no reason for the side backing the colony to commit fully to war either. They're not a stakeholder in the peace, so there's no reason to commit to a full total war as you claim.

In fact, the developers specifically state that this isn't a "total war" or an "all out war" between the great powers involved. Instead, it would be "something of a brush war" where the main focus of the great power siding with "limited fighting in the colonies". So even if diplomatic plays like this between great powers escalate to war, which they are absolutely not guaranteed to do and is going to be unlikely, they are rarely going to be total wars between great powers. Because, and again I can't stress this enough since you seem so desperate to ignore the basic design philosophy of the game, that's the entire point of the diplomatic play system as it connects to warfare, to move away from every argument between great powers turning into total existential wars like they did in previous games and limit both how often diplomatic conflict escalates to military conflict and when it does, limit the scope of said wars unless there's actively a reason, in the form of a wargoal at stake, for its scope to be wider.
 
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Al-Khalidi

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You do realize that wars start because of diplomatic plays, right?

We have no idea what the scope of this war actually is, so your assumption that it's a "total war" is completely unfounded. The stakes of a war are determined by what wen on during the diplomatic play, and since we know nothing about the diplomatic play,

So you are specifically cherry picking a case without knowing the full necessary context to understand what's happening, and then when presented with that context, you're dismissing it out of hand because it doesn't support your narrative.

But let's take a look at another case where we do know more of that context, from the peace deal dev diary.

"This rebellion against Britain has turned into something of a brush war between the European Great Powers, with limited fighting in the colonies between Britain and its enemy France. War Support remains high, but if things take a bloodier turn both sides may find their populations quickly growing weary of the fighting."
DD26_3.png


Here is what most wars where great powers are backing colonial rebellions or small colonial states will probably look like. We have France and Austria backing Kanak against Great Britain, similar to Germany backing Tibesti against France. Now, in most cases like this, the other great powers, Germany in the Tibesti case and France and Austria in the Kanak case, will be non-negotiating participants. Which means, guess what, invading mainland Germany as France or invading France or Austria as Britain will not help the attacker in the war at all because Germany has no sway in the peace deal, so there is no reason to push on those fronts or involve troops beyond a defending action. Nor will capitulating as Germany, or as France or Austria in the Tibesti case, actually matter except for damaging its relations with a minor colony, so there's no reason for the side backing the colony to commit fully to war either. They're not a stakeholder in the peace, so there's no reason to commit to a full total war as you claim.

In fact, the developers specifically state that this isn't a "total war" or an "all out war" between the great powers involved. Instead, it would be "something of a brush war" where the main focus of the great power siding with "limited fighting in the colonies". So even if diplomatic plays like this between great powers escalate to war, which they are absolutely not guaranteed to do and is going to be unlikely, they are rarely going to be total wars between great powers. Because, and again I can't stress this enough since you seem so desperate to ignore the basic design philosophy of the game, that's the entire point of the diplomatic play system as it connects to warfare, to move away from every argument between great powers turning into total existential wars like they did in previous games and limit both how often diplomatic conflict escalates to military conflict and when it does, limit the scope of said wars unless there's actively a reason, in the form of a wargoal at stake, for its scope to be wider.
Yes wars start bcz of diplo plays, wars could even start because of candies falling out of the sky, how is it relevant here? The point is there is a risk they would start too often.

Total war here doesn't mean XX century doctrine ofcourse. It means all out war which means Great Power fighting on their borders. There is nothing that could point to the assumption that war between two GPs might be limited.

I would like if fighting was limited to colonies but new screenshot shows something opposite - France has zero divisions on front with Tibesti but leads bloody fighting with Germany.
The issue is divisive enough that someone should launch a separate thread - I feel we are a bit hijacking the Video Diary thread.
I already did it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...as-they-said-they-will.1515899/#post-28156671
 
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Oglesby

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Yes wars start bcz of diplo plays, wars could even start because of candies falling out of the sky, how is it relevant here? The point is there is a risk they would start too often.

Total war here doesn't mean XX century doctrine ofcourse. It means all out war which means Great Power fighting on their borders. There is nothing that could point to the assumption that war between two GPs might be limited.

I would like if fighting was limited to colonies but new screenshot shows something opposite - France has zero divisions on front with Tibesti but leads bloody fighting with Germany.

I already did it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...as-they-said-they-will.1515899/#post-28156671
Could it be that it is taking time for the France units to muster and be transported to that front?
"the colonial power needs to manage the logistics of transporting an army to the region while the Decentralized nation has the home advantage. "

We also don't have all what appears to be the mustered units appearing in the fronts that are shown.
 
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Eddie121

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I like the fact that you can toggle monument settings between prestige/no maintenance and country-wide modifiers/with maintenance.

But why not unlock all 4 combinations in the game settings ?
Prestige-only / no maintenance (25 prestige for free)
Prestige-only / with maintenance (500 clergymen in the Vatican, producing 25 prestige)
Country modifiers / no maintenance (100 administration 100 influence and 10% clerical influence for free)
Country modifiers / with maintenance (500 clergymen in the Vatican, producing 100 administration 100 influence and 10% clerical influence)

Or even go further and have different production methods according to the ideology of the owner.
A theocracy operating the Vatican as a holy see (employing clergymen for influence, clerical influence)
A monarchy as a (secular) palace (employing bureaucrats for prestige and administration)
A republic as a museum (employing bureaucrats for prestige and influence)
 
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Revolution 11

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I like the fact that you can toggle monument settings between prestige/no maintenance and country-wide modifiers/with maintenance.

But why not unlock all 4 combinations in the game settings ?
Prestige-only / no maintenance (25 prestige for free)
Prestige-only / with maintenance (500 clergymen in the Vatican, producing 25 prestige)
Country modifiers / no maintenance (100 administration 100 influence and 10% clerical influence for free)
Country modifiers / with maintenance (500 clergymen in the Vatican, producing 100 administration 100 influence and 10% clerical influence)

Or even go further and have different production methods according to the ideology of the owner.
A theocracy operating the Vatican as a holy see (employing clergymen for influence, clerical influence)
A monarchy as a (secular) palace (employing bureaucrats for prestige and administration)
A republic as a museum (employing bureaucrats for prestige and influence)
You are a Splitter, not a Lumper, aren't you? :)
 
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