• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Delterius

Colonel
65 Badges
Aug 5, 2014
816
4.365
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
if you haven't played the game in the past two weeks your point of reference is likely outdated.
I have and I dislike it. I didn't like spending mana to convert cultures in 1.0 and I don't like making buildings in 2.0 instead. I don't like having 10 different screens titled 'diplomacy' or 'culture' that consist of 'press this button for a 0.03% buff'. I'm one of the people who tell Johan 'press button of win-more tiny buffs' has gotten pasé. In Victoria everything flows from the fundamentals of what a pop is, what function they serve and what they need. That's what I want. Victoria 3. Not Stellaris 1800s edition.

Like I said earlier, I already find building ports tedious enough. Victoria 2 players already joke about how they may start as a Planned Economy, the moment they get rich they no longer want to micro the factories and just go full liberalism. Why add an EU4-esque in depth building spam system?
Regarding refinement of Vic2: I've played many years with mods from Naselus, Gaga Extrem, original ShinWalks etc. All of them were able to refine the mechanics of some / many aspects of the game, however none of them could balance it to a point where it lasted into mid to late game, because (according to the devs) it simply wasn't possible.
Most people play HFM. I play the simpler HPM and haven't had economic malfunctions since AHD's first release.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
9.160
7.194
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Like I said earlier, I already find building ports tedious enough. Victoria 2 players already joke about how they may start as a Planned Economy, the moment they get rich they no longer want to micro the factories and just go full liberalism. Why add an EU4-esque in depth building spam system?
One problem is that V2 treats full liberalism as the ultimate end goal, where hybrid systems with limited government intervention and controls have historically shown equal or greater promise than pure unfettered capitalism OR a totally state-controlled economy. They'd also be a lot more interesting, where you as a player could actually DO a limited amount of stuff in a few instances, rather than letting the brain-dead Cappies build 16 of the same factory that's either already closed or is losing money in over a dozen provinces due to overproduction, as if 16 more will solve the problem, while you're forced to import some other commodity because they won't build a single factory to produce it domestically. In Imperator: Rome, the forces of the free or partially free market are really not even represented.
 
  • 4Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Amtep

Colonel
60 Badges
Nov 20, 2017
938
2.331
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Hmm, I would disagree that Vic2 treats laissez faire as the end goal. It's just an extreme on the spectrum. The crisis of capitalism is pretty well represented, and you can choose to go socialist to temper it. And communism would be a solid option strategically if it weren't for all the micro. It needs some middle management :)
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
Jan 4, 2020
1.900
3.663
- There's already a basic market / trading system in place (basic resources needed to produce certain unit types in province => expandable for producing higher goods through factories?).
IR trade system is rudimentary compared to vic2.

It needs a massive rework in IR, especially since 2.0 effectively gimped the importance of strategic resources (e.g. you can have HI without importing any iron if your culture’s levy includes HI).

currently there are no actual trade routes, instead goods are teleported across the map.

There are many good user suggestions on how to change this, and if the devs implement this it could be used for future games, as well, but the current system is absolutely not suitable for Vic3.
- Different culture + religious pops with also different strategic values (nobles, freemen etc., could be changed to capitalists, clerks, laborers etc.).
IR POPs are oversimplified compared to vic2 POPs, they have no demands, no actual pop numbers etc. This is OK for the IR setting but not for the Victoria 3 era.

- Levies raised and composed from actual pops in a province (similar to Vic2).
IR: levies are the default army and legions need a tech to be unlocked (appropriate for the ancient world). Generals since 2.0 are exploitable (DoG on steroids) and unrealistic (as in absolutely immersion-breaking).

Victoria: small professional armies should be the default for all civilized nations (regardless if the startdate will be 1836 or an earlier year like 1815). Mass-mobilizing non-military pops should only happen during major wars. And mercs shouldn’t exist on the scale of IR (even after the nerf in the upcoming hotfix)

- Different techtrees (dependant on culture) but still with invention chances (=> Vic2 tech system, additionally with foci like in HOI4?).
Vic 3 could use different trees for every tech school, but that’s not a unique IR feature.

IR mission trees are much better than the rigid HoI IV focus trees.

If PDS adds anything like this, IR has a better prototype than HoI4. (but it should have HoI IV style national spirits) The timeframe of Vic3 would be longer than HoI4 and late game will need dynamic missions.

- City vs. countryside improvements (=> usable to simplify / complicate growing urbanization and rural fleeing?).
Urbanization and industrialization a major theme of the 19th-early 20th century era, unlike classical antiquity.

Vic3 will have a global map. Probably more granular than HoI maps but less detailed than IR.

I really hope they don't Form Vic3 after IR, imperator is a bunch of different ideas and mechanics but not a game (yet) Victoria 2 is a game. Most of the vic2 fans want just a prettified vic2.1 as a base for a new game.
Yes, combining Vicky 2 mechanics with IR art and visuals would be perfect.

Still, what mechanics would be superior to what we have in Vic 2?
None for 2.0 (and previous versions). Future patches and DLC might change this.

The city/settlement mechanic is, imo, perfect for victoria, where it could very well model the massive migratory movements toward cities, increasing the urbanization characteristic of this era.
Not so much in the same way as Imperator, where you're founding cities from the ground up, but very much so in showing the population moving from rural areas to urban centers.
A clean-cut distinction between them (different buildings etc) seems OK for IR but not in Vic3.

IR also lacks suburbs, which should be a thing in Vic3.

It would be better if Vicky III territories have an urbanization value that goes from 0 to 100%


Summa summarum: There are a few features that Victoria 3 devs can base on IR but many that IR devs should base on Vic2.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Delterius

Colonel
65 Badges
Aug 5, 2014
816
4.365
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
One problem is that V2 treats full liberalism as the ultimate end goal, where hybrid systems with limited government intervention and controls have historically shown equal or greater promise than pure unfettered capitalism OR a totally state-controlled economy.
I think it depends on your position and the condition of the global markets. If you're number 1 and the markets have a lot of available resources, you might as well go full liberal. But sometimes you're rank 3 and lack that godly 2 million pop coal producing province. Even a very short war in Europe can wreck your economy. In those moments I prefer interventionism. That way you can just not subsidize most factories. If everything is going well, that is.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

zorkman

Lt. General
16 Badges
Oct 25, 2003
1.582
2.217
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
I hardly believe they would make V3 a clone of Imperator, considering the latters reputation. That would likely upset all potential buyers of the new game. They may well use & adapt certain parts, but removing the central plank of V2 would be disasterous.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

qer

Lt. General
26 Badges
Nov 12, 2011
1.445
2.190
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities: Skylines
One problem is that V2 treats full liberalism as the ultimate end goal, where hybrid systems with limited government intervention and controls have historically shown equal or greater promise than pure unfettered capitalism OR a totally state-controlled economy. They'd also be a lot more interesting, where you as a player could actually DO a limited amount of stuff in a few instances, rather than letting the brain-dead Cappies build 16 of the same factory that's either already closed or is losing money in over a dozen provinces due to overproduction, as if 16 more will solve the problem, while you're forced to import some other commodity because they won't build a single factory to produce it domestically. In Imperator: Rome, the forces of the free or partially free market are really not even represented.

Hmm, I would disagree that Vic2 treats laissez faire as the end goal. It's just an extreme on the spectrum. The crisis of capitalism is pretty well represented, and you can choose to go socialist to temper it. And communism would be a solid option strategically if it weren't for all the micro. It needs some middle management :)
I would rather that the creation of a welfare state due to how the reform system is the end goal rather than a specific economic system. Regardless, I think people exaggerated the amount of useless micro needed for planned economy, and SC and interventionism are both good compromises. In fact, I would say that properly planning your economy is one of the most fun aspects of the game, specially when you combine it with other mechanics like spheres of influence.
 

Amtep

Colonel
60 Badges
Nov 20, 2017
938
2.331
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Yeah I think planned economy runs pretty well with just hitting the mass "expand full factories" button every few months, once you've set up all your factory types. It gets annoying when you have a lot of open provinces, like if you just westernized (especially China) or just conquered a swath of land.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

Vohen

Field Marshal
51 Badges
May 29, 2017
2.700
3.279
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Yeah I think planned economy runs pretty well with just hitting the mass "expand full factories" button every few months, once you've set up all your factory types. It gets annoying when you have a lot of open provinces, like if you just westernized (especially China) or just conquered a swath of land.
With China I usually just go liberal all the way.
The economy becomes basically self sustaining, I'll have more capitalists than some countries have in total pops.
So factories will be built faster than they can go bankrupt.
That's the upside, the downside is how factory construction can never keep up with craftsmen promotion, so mass unemployment can become an issue.
 

LeandroB

Second Lieutenant
79 Badges
May 29, 2017
154
620
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
To be honest, no, i would hate that. I:R is extremely boring to me while i have tons of fun with Vic 2.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

EU3NOOB

Field Marshal
57 Badges
Sep 29, 2011
4.598
2.844
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
I really hope they don't Form Vic3 after IR, imperator is a bunch of different ideas and mechanics but not a game (yet) Victoria 2 is a game. Most of the vic2 fans want just a prettified vic2.1 as a base for a new game.

Victoria 2... certainly is a game, that can definitely be said of it. It's a game where most of its mechanics hardly even work as intended and the few that do are made to look like they don't because of mechanics that they interact with don't.

And historically one of the big complaints of Vicky 2 is how shallow the experience is and that's due to the absolutely terrible UI.

I do not love Victoria 2, but I definitely respect it for its ambition and I definitely had fun with it.

Mourn not its flaws, celebrate its ambition.

For me a proper Vicky 3 would:

1) Make un-WAD mechanics in Vicky 2 WAD (though some features would likely be dropped; looking at you, Newspaper-Kun).

2) Clean up the UI. This is basically mandatory. Luckily Paradox would do this by default, so yey.

3) Make Vicky 3 as ambitious a game as Vicky 2 was in its era.

If we only get the first two at launch, I would be content with buying it. It would basically be Vicky 2 but minus the shit. Plus, they'd expand upon it over time anyway, so there you go.

greater promise than pure unfettered capitalism

Honestly, while I would like to avoid politics, and you probably don't mean this sort of thing at all, but I can't really let this slide...

The idea that the 19th century represented a golden age for "pure unfettered capitalism" is pretty much a myth. Governments around the world, including, yes, the United States, intervened in their countries' economies all the time during the period. Let's look at the United States, since that's considered the poster child for this line of reasoning.

During the 19th century the United States utilized tariffs to great effect to fund their government activities. This may not seem like much, but it does have an impact on the economy AND Free Trade was a core tenant of Smithian economics (and thus Free Market Capitalism). This alone is enough to end this myth, but there's more. There's also the First and Second Banks of the United States, which acted as a financial regulatory body within the United States and both were predecessors to the modern Federal Reserve. Then there was the subsidizing of the railroads (particularly in the latter half of the 19th century) which DEFINITELY represents government intervention into the economy. Then there's the Homestead Act, which I hope goes without saying.

I'm not here to cast judgement on these examples as good or bad and it certainly pales in comparison to what came in the 20th century, but these do represent definitive points where the US government intervened into their country's economy, thus the idea of 19th century America being the land of Unfettered Capitalism entirely a myth.

Though it could be argued that pure unfettered capitalism is just as impossible as Communism.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions:

Kovax

Field Marshal
10 Badges
May 13, 2003
9.160
7.194
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
You're correct, in that I didn't mean that at all. The game pushes you toward capitalism, but does not provide the tools for very historical government intervention along with the Liberal political system which used it fairly frequently. You need to enact Intervention, which is a Conservative doctrine. As said, the European and American "free markets" were NEVER close to true capitalism, just as "true communism" didn't really happen in the Soviet Union, but the game enforces the doctrines. The game really needs to expand the options for government interference in the economy, even if it doesn't allow you to actually select and finance a specific factory (which you STILL should be able to do to a VERY limited extent to provide essential war materials).
 
  • 1
Reactions:

chrism2012

Colonel
29 Badges
Jan 25, 2010
1.007
43
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Pride of Nations
Hi again. :)

Hmm, according to all I've read and the reactions so far it seems the (vast) majority is of the opinion that the current I:R v2.0 does NOT form a good basis for Victoria3 development, for quite more reasons than I initially thought of.

Alright then, lets wait and see if Paradox will come up with something or simply let it fade away...

Thanks to all contributors so far. :)
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

gianlucad

Hello
90 Badges
Nov 9, 2008
1.986
965
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Honestly, due to how little flavor is in Victoria 2 I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be one of the easier games to make a sequel of without losing features. Unfortunately I just dont see current paradox being able to develop a sequel that isn't completely memefied like all their current games. Furthermore, their DLC policy would eventually ruin the game regardless.

I wish they weould take a few devs just to port Victoria 2 to a newer version of the clausewitz engine as a form of a remaster, tack on some more flavor and reduce hard-coding so that modders can have more leeway with the remaster and then call it a day. Such a game would be extremely popular with veterans and newer players without much compromise and I imageine it would likely be cheap to develop.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:

Vohen

Field Marshal
51 Badges
May 29, 2017
2.700
3.279
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Considering the commercial failure of I:R, I really hope they would know better than to base a new main series game on it.
Don't judge a book by its cover, Imperator 1.0 and 2.0 are entirely different beasts.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

LeandroB

Second Lieutenant
79 Badges
May 29, 2017
154
620
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Considering the commercial failure of I:R, I really hope they would know better than to base a new main series game on it.
I:R was actualy a great commercial success, but it was a bad game and that destroied its following, leaving just a few loyals. Less than Victoria 2 to be honest.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

dav77-b

Dampfnudel
89 Badges
Jan 10, 2010
2.193
2.256
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Imperator's pop system is the one thing that would make me instantly drop Victoria 3. To say nothing of the overall design philosophy of Imperator. It is the inverse of everything appealing about Victoria 2. Increasing literacy and improving the supply of luxury goods so that pops, and here's the keyword: indirectly, assimilate and promote? Yes. Press a button in every province to spend 'political power' (Not Mana™) to turn your 13 protestant czech farmers into catholic south german craftsmen? Nah, thanks. I'm good.
What is the last time you played IR? These buttons are long gone.
 
Jan 4, 2020
1.900
3.663
Don't judge a book by its cover, Imperator 1.0 and 2.0 are entirely different beasts.
No, they are NOT. Imprator has improved a lot since release, but there are still too many problems remaining (and some of them were added with new patches).

That's why IR player numbers are once again lower than Victoria II.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

Vohen

Field Marshal
51 Badges
May 29, 2017
2.700
3.279
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
No, they are NOT. Imprator has improved a lot since release, but there are still too many problems remaining (and some of them were added with new patches).

That's why IR player numbers are once again lower than Victoria II.
Yes, they ARE.
Imperator still has many problems, but it is now much closer to Vic than to EU4.
Unfortunately, the barrier 1.0 created is very difficult to overcome, if at all possible.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions: