Victoria 2 Wiki

Victoria 2 Wiki

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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Sn3ipen

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Does this mean we can post all the Paradox-created country flags (i.e., communist Deseret) on the wiki for reference?

Yes, we can.
 

Meneth

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Does this mean we can post all the Paradox-created country flags (i.e., communist Deseret) on the wiki for reference?
Yes.
The regular flags are virtually all in the public domain though anyway.
 

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The wikis will be moved over to a better server tonight.
This may cause some downtime, in which case you have my apologies. The move should be entirely finished within a few hours of starting though, so the worst case scenario is a few hours of downtime.
 

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Great work on creating the new wikis. It is nice to see all the interest and activity! :) If you need any suggestions or advice, I'm happy to help. I'm not active anymore, but many years of managing several of the paradoxian wiki's taught me a thing or two. :)
 

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Does this mean we can post all the Paradox-created country flags (i.e., communist Deseret) on the wiki for reference?

Great work on creating the new wikis. It is nice to see all the interest and activity! :) If you need any suggestions or advice, I'm happy to help. I'm not active anymore, but many years of managing several of the paradoxian wiki's taught me a thing or two. :)
Since you're an admin on the HoI3 and Vic2 wikis, could you perhaps put up sitenotices like Junuxx did on the EU3 wiki? Here's the EU3 Wiki page implementing that; you just need to create a page of the same name with the same content (with the wiki names/links changed, ofc).
 

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Since you're an admin on the HoI3 and Vic2 wikis, could you perhaps put up sitenotices like Junuxx did on the EU3 wiki? Here's the EU3 Wiki page implementing that; you just need to create a page of the same name with the same content (with the wiki names/links changed, ofc).

I must admit, it is a hard thing to do. So much time, effort, and work put into those wikis! ...

I should also add, I'm uncomfortable with the statement you make on your wiki: "Meneth is the creator and owner of Paradox Wikis, and owns the wikis within it." You copied a huge amount of content that this community created under the CC attribution license. What exactly are you claiming ownership over?
 
Last edited:

Meneth

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I must admit, it is a hard thing to do. So much time, effort, and work put into those wikis! ...
And sadly all that work is stagnating due to registration being impossible. The new wikis address that nicely as you yourself commented earlier ;)

I should also add, I'm uncomfortable with the statement you make on your wiki: "Meneth is the creator and owner of Paradox Wikis, and owns the wikis within it." You copied a huge amount of content that this community created under the CC attribution license. What exactly are you claiming ownership over?
I've addressed that on my Talk page.
 

bbasgen

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The wiki itself is owned by me, but the content within it is for the most part licensed to me by its creators.

This is a confusing and troubling idea. The standard notice on your site says that materials are released under CC-Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike. This leads me to conclude that Site editors are not licensing their content to to you directly. The content from the wiki's you copied over is material that the community created; fair portions of that content I created and I am quite sure that I haven't licensed content to you as an individual or organization. I have, along with all the other contributors, licensed content according to the CC, which certainly allows copying with attribution so long as it is in a non-commercial format and the license is continued.

I have three questions:
  • Do you intend to follow the CC license with content that you create? You mentioned in your response that "certain art assets" are owned by you. If your content is not CC, but editor content is, how will that work exactly?
  • Is your site non-commercial? I notice the advertisement banner. If the server and domain is owned by you, does that mean that you are collecting advertisement revenue?
  • Is your site following CC-NC-SA for all contributions?

I appreciate what you have been doing. It is great that you are putting time and effort into reviving the wikis. Wikis are an essential part of Paradox gaming. In an ideal world, Paradox would host wiki's for their games, but this hasn't yet occurred. I understand owning and controlling a server and domain. This is the case with Paradoxian: Rafiki owns the server, the domain and he has been unresponsive to change. I fully support your right to own a server, a domain, and call the shots on how the wiki works, and so on. That's all great. My question is with your application of ownership to content, and with a possible use of your site for revenue.
 

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This is a confusing and troubling idea. The standard notice on your site says that materials are released under CC-Attribution-ShareAlike. This leads me to conclude that Site editors are not licensing their content to to you directly. The content from the wiki's you copied over is material that the community created; fair portions of that content I created and I am quite sure that I haven't licensed content to you as an individual or organization. I have, along with all the other contributors, licensed content according to the CC, which certainly allows copying with attribution so long as it is in a non-commercial format and the license is continued.

I have three questions:
  • Do you intend to follow the CC license with content that you create? You mentioned in your response that "certain art assets" are owned by you. If your content is not CC, but editor content is, how will that work exactly?
  • Is your site non-commercial? I notice the advertisement banner. If the server and domain is owned by you, does that mean that you are collecting advertisement revenue?
  • Is your site following CC-NC-SA for all contributions?

I appreciate what you have been doing. It is great that you are putting time and effort into reviving the wikis. Wikis are an essential part of Paradox gaming. In an ideal world, Paradox would host wiki's for their games, but this hasn't yet occurred. I understand owning and controlling a server and domain. This is the case with Paradoxian: Rafiki owns the server, the domain and he has been unresponsive to change. I fully support your right to own a server, a domain, and call the shots on how the wiki works, and so on. That's all great. My question is with your application of ownership to content, and with a possible use of your site for revenue.
Whenever you edit a page, this is displayed "Please note that all contributions to Victoria 2 Wiki are considered to be released under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 (see Victoria 2 Wiki:Copyrights for details)".
By releasing content under CC BY-NC-SA one opens it for licensing by any entity, which is how it is licensed to the wikis. So all content on the wiki is licensed to the wiki, no? Unless I'm somehow misinterpreting the definition of licensing that does appear to me to be the case. I generally use "me" and "the wiki" or "Paradox Wikis" interchangeably seeing as I'm the only owner of Paradox Wikis and the individual wikis within them.

As to your three questions:
1. All content that I've created that can be licensed under CC BY-(NC)-SA is licensed as such. Content that cannot be licensed as such includes the wiki logos, as usage of assets used in the logos is licensed to Paradox Wikis by Paradox Interactive in a form that does not allow further sharing
2. Advertisement is a legal grey area when it comes to non-commercial. The main purpose is to recoup hosting costs. However, due to it being a grey area I'm trying to get the wikis currently under CC BY-NC-SA (Vic2, HoI3, and EU3) to such a state where the licensing can be changed to CC BY-SA like on the CKII and EU4 wikis. This is achieved by changing the articles imported from Paradoxian to such an extent that they can no longer be considered derivative works. This policy is detailed on the copyrights pages of those wikis
3. As detailed in the Copyrights section, the licensing is intended to be changed to CC BY-SA. As such any editor who do not want his content licensed as such may refrain from editing

I claim no ownership to content not created by me.

I hope that clarifies the situation?

Edit: Hmmf. Seems I haven't put a proper note about the planned switch to BY-SA on the Copyright page... I'll get that moved over there. Things can be a bit disorganized from time to time, sorry.
 

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I'm sorry to hear that you plan to take your wiki's commercial. I'm not comfortable freely contributing content for another's commercial gain. IANAL, but I think by copying all the work from a CC-NC-SA license and then "changing" the articles, it is still a derivative work.

I would really like you to reconsider your position on this. I would be happy to help your efforts if you stick with the CC-NC-SA license. The transition to your wiki would be seamless, easy, and non-contentious. It is a win-win scenario. In terms of server costs, how about asking for donations instead? Alternatively, we could try petitioning PI to create their own community wikis.
 

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I'm sorry to hear that you plan to take your wiki's commercial. I'm not comfortable freely contributing content for another's commercial gain.

I would really like you to reconsider your position on this. I would be happy to help your efforts if you stick with the CC-NC-SA license. The transition to your wiki would be seamless, easy, and non-contentious. It is a win-win scenario. In terms of server costs, how about asking for donations instead? Alternatively, we could try petitioning PI to create their own community wikis.
I'm sorry to hear you won't be helping out :/
My main goal above all is to create the best possible resources for the players, and I feel the best way to do so is by having an unobtrusive sidebar ad to pay for hosting costs.
I feel that is a much better solution than to ask players to part with their money, as ads are essentially a passive donations in a way; users are in no way prevented from browsing the wikis if they decide to block ads.
Ads is also the way most game wikis to my knowledge pay for hosting, and is a very effective way to do so.

IANAL, but I think by copying all the work from a CC-NC-SA license and then "changing" the articles, it is still a derivative work.
Completely or near-completely rewriting the articles ensures that they are original works.
 

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I'm sorry to hear you won't be helping out :/

I'm not comfortable with content that was created under a non-commercial license being used for commercial purposes.

I wish you would reconsider your position.

Completely or near-completely rewriting the articles ensures that they are original works.

You are perfectly welcome to recreate an article, of course. Instead, as you have explained, you have copied non-commercial content and have placed it on a commercial site. Further, you have told contributors up to this point that content they add will continue to be non-commercial, though you have stated here an intent to convert that content to a commercial license.

It would really be much easier to resolve this by retaining the license of the content you copied or by creating your own content from scratch. It is always easier to resolve these types of issues when they are small and newly formed, and I really recommend you take some time to reconsider your position.

References:
Whenever you edit a page, this is displayed "Please note that all contributions to Victoria 2 Wiki are considered to be released under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 (see Victoria 2 Wiki:Copyrights for details)".
By releasing content under CC BY-NC-SA one opens it for licensing by any entity, which is how it is licensed to the wikis. So all content on the wiki is licensed to the wiki, no? Unless I'm somehow misinterpreting the definition of licensing that does appear to me to be the case. I generally use "me" and "the wiki" or "Paradox Wikis" interchangeably seeing as I'm the only owner of Paradox Wikis and the individual wikis within them.

As to your three questions:
1. All content that I've created that can be licensed under CC BY-(NC)-SA is licensed as such. Content that cannot be licensed as such includes the wiki logos, as usage of assets used in the logos is licensed to Paradox Wikis by Paradox Interactive in a form that does not allow further sharing
2. Advertisement is a legal grey area when it comes to non-commercial. The main purpose is to recoup hosting costs. However, due to it being a grey area I'm trying to get the wikis currently under CC BY-NC-SA (Vic2, HoI3, and EU3) to such a state where the licensing can be changed to CC BY-SA like on the CKII and EU4 wikis. This is achieved by changing the articles imported from Paradoxian to such an extent that they can no longer be considered derivative works. This policy is detailed on the copyrights pages of those wikis
3. As detailed in the Copyrights section, the licensing is intended to be changed to CC BY-SA. As such any editor who do not want his content licensed as such may refrain from editing

I claim no ownership to content not created by me.

I hope that clarifies the situation?

Edit: Hmmf. Seems I haven't put a proper note about the planned switch to BY-SA on the Copyright page... I'll get that moved over there. Things can be a bit disorganized from time to time, sorry.
 

Meneth

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I'm not comfortable with content that was created under a non-commercial license being used for commercial purposes.
Advertisement for the purpose of recouping costs is very much a grey area. Which is why I'm trying to move out of that grey area by having the imported pages rewritten.

You are perfectly welcome to recreate an article, of course. Instead, as you have explained, you have copied non-commercial content and have placed it on a commercial site. Further, you have told contributors up to this point that content they add will continue to be non-commercial, though you have stated here an intent to convert that content to a commercial license.

It would really be much easier to resolve this by retaining the license of the content you copied or by creating your own content from scratch. It is always easier to resolve these types of issues when they are small and newly formed, and I really recommend you take some time to reconsider your position.
Contributors up to this point have surely been perfectly aware that they are writing content for a site that has a sidebar ad. The policy has always been made clear in the import category for each individual wiki, and is now clarified in the copyrights section itself as well. It has also been mentioned every time I've called for people to help rewrite the pages in the import category. As such I feel editors have been well aware of how their content would be used, though I do apologize for not including it on the copyrights page itself until now. That issue has however been resolved now.

The license of the imported content is indeed being retained until such a time when it has all been rewritten and can be considered original works so that this legal grey area can be exited completely.
Removing the sidebar ads on the wikis with imported content is not an option as it is necessary to recoup hosting costs.
 

Desnanfer

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Hello, this is my first post.
Sorry for the bad english, my main language is portuguese.
I'm not good at editing the wiki, i'm not familliar with tweaking it. That being said, i must point out that the net profit values of factories in the wiki makes no sense, since the base value of products are not being multiplied by the quantity produced. Example: 100 timber, 100 fabric and 30 steel is the input necessary for making 10 clipper convoys. So, taking in consideration the base price of each good, this necessary input represents $411,00. And then the wiki says that, as a clipper convoy is worth $42,00, the net profit is $-369,00. But this is incorrect, since the input considered produces 10 Clippers convoys, meaning the total output is worth $420,00, wich represents a net profit of $9,00.
 
Last edited:

blitzthedragon

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Huh, don't know how I missed this whole ad controversy. I would personally be okay with it so long as those ads aren't for scam products like Force Factor or MLM marketing scams. Then again, you might not have control over that.
 

Meneth

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Huh, don't know how I missed this whole ad controversy. I would personally be okay with it so long as those ads aren't for scam products like Force Factor or MLM marketing scams. Then again, you might not have control over that.
I have very little control over what's shown, yeah.
Google is pretty strict about banning scams though as far as I know, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Though if anyone does come over any particularly bad ads (E.G., scams or explicit sexual content), please do screenshot it and send me a mail about it with the ad URL included, as I do have the ability to ban individual websites or ad networks. Anything wiki-related can be sent to wiki[at]meneth.com.
 

blitzthedragon

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Okay, will do. Though Google could have fooled me with being strict about scam ads. To this day they have never taken down that "lose weight following this one weird old tip" which involves signing up for a free trial of a placebo and getting caught in an autobilling bait-n-switch.
 

Doncor

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Does anybody know how to make decisions? I've learned something by myself but it's not enough, still cannot understand how works some codes. I'm interesting in creating my own country by a decision, I've created country and it works, created the decision but it demands to acquire all the corses of that new country or include them in my sphere of influence, but I didn't want it in my decision and in the .txt file hasn't any codes for that. Does anybody can help me?
 
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Sn3ipen

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Does anybody know how to make decisions? I've learned something by myself but it's not enough, still cannot understand how works some codes. I'm interesting in creating my own country by a decision, I've created country and it works, created the decision but it demands to acquire all the corses of that new country or include them in my sphere of influence, but I didn't want it in my decision and in the .txt file hasn't any codes for that. Does anybody can help me?

I am sorry, but i don't think this is the right place to ask for help. Try the subforum for mods to get help about modding. If you haven't already, you have to register your game before you get access though.
 

GC13

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I just went through the CB page and brought it in line with reality (at least as of HoD). Is there anyone still on AHD who can see if the old numbers were accurate? If so, we can have both expansions' CB data up.