Victoria 2 Map Mega Thread.

[unmerged(11486)]

Err, Wilcoxchar, if you read what I said...

For the love of all that is holy, PLEASE DO NOT CALL IT ANCHORAGE!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!!!

...I thought I was pretty clear that it should NOT be called Anchorage. Anchorage never really existed as anything more than a work camp until the mid 1930s, and should NOT be named. It shouldn't have been named in HoI either, but that's beside the point. As far as Alaska not needing eight provinces? Perhaps it doesn't. I disagree. I also disagree with basing names simply on Russian settlements. US involvement in Alaska began historically in 1867. The game runs from 1836 to 1936, so for nearly 70% of the game's timespan, Alaska was an American territory. Regardless of the intricacies of the game engine, this should be represented.

Regarding the CLIO map... Unalakleet is, to me, an almost unacceptable name for the province it represents. Not entirely unacceptable, since it appears I have little choice, but I would strongly recommend Kotzebue, Eagle, or Fairbanks over Unalakleet.

Kenai will work, although, Valdez would be preferred. Dutch Harbor again works. I'm pleased to see Yakutat where it ought to be, and Sitka is perfectly acceptable.

Johan, while I'm pleased to see your involvement in this thread (very pleased indeed), I'm also disappointed in your answer. Still looking forward to the game, though.

Henry

 

[Hiram_Maxim]

All names have been debated by the community for several years.

All Paradox games have featured armies moving into provinces for several years.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Err, Wilcoxchar, if you read what I said...



...I thought I was pretty clear that it should NOT be called Anchorage. Anchorage never really existed as anything more than a work camp until the mid 1930s, and should NOT be named. It shouldn't have been named in HoI either, but that's beside the point. As far as Alaska not needing eight provinces? Perhaps it doesn't. I disagree. I also disagree with basing names simply on Russian settlements. US involvement in Alaska began historically in 1867. The game runs from 1836 to 1936, so for nearly 70% of the game's timespan, Alaska was an American territory. Regardless of the intricacies of the game engine, this should be represented.

Oh. Whoops, my bad. Did Vicky 1 have Anchorage as the province name? I didn't think it did and immediately jumped to conclusions. Sorry about that.

 

[Spacehusky]

None of this is remotely important.

 

[rjf101]

None of this is remotely important.

Maybe not to you but to many of us it is.

I would like to point out a few suggestions about Florida province names:

Key West has historically been the largest city in South Florida, not Tampa. Tampa ecclipsed Key West only in 1910. Alos, Jacksonville has histroically been North Florida's largest city, from around the 1850s at the latest all the until the modern day. Also it was the largest in all of Florida in 1870 and from 1900 to 1950. Tallahassee was a good choice for the Panhandle, however.

Also, regarding New York: Islip is just some suburban town on Long Island, never very significant or notable. Many people don't kinow that Brooklyn, which is on Long Island, was a seperate city from New York until around 1900and was the fourth largest city in America before the emrger. Would make a much better choice for the name of Long Island (personally I would just call it Long Islands, but I know they like to name everything after a city even if its not the ebst choice...).

In Massachusetts: Pittsfield has never been the most significant city in Western Mass., Springfield and Worcester have been. Worcester ecclipsed Springfield in 1850, but Springfield has a more central location in the province so it may make a better choice. Also their populations have always been neck-and-neck.

Now I'm not Canadian, but I'm pretty sure Sydney has historically been the largest and most important city of Eastern Nova Scotia, not Truro. Not entirely sure though.

It would seem appropriate to split Connecticut (Hartford province) into two provinces, based on populationa nd the fact that neighboring provinces are so small. It may be too late to change this, however.

I'm assuming you called Lewiston province that instead of Portland because you didn't want duplicate names?

Well that's all I've got for now.

 

[unmerged(11486)]

None of this is remotely important.

Obviously you've never been to Alaska.

Wilcoxchar: I've no idea if Anchorage was in V1 or not. Really can't remember, and it's not installed now, so I can't look. It was in HoI1 and I think in HoI2 as well, which was a shame. Seward or even Whittier would have been a better fit in that case.

In any case, one thing I'm still unsure on after a brief search. Will provinces in V2 be re-nameable in-game? I know EU3 had that feature, and it would make as much sense here as the colonization aspect is still in play.

Henry

 

[safferli]

Changing province names is most probably going to be very easy in the final version of the game, as is was for EU3, Rome, and HoI3. Paradox took the CLIO map, that was debated on by the Vicky1 community for ages, and used that for their current map. Obviously they are very reluctant to make any changes to that, as it'll only open a can of worms -- as one can perfectly see in this thread. Start your own "better, historical map names" mod as soon as the game is out, or help with the CLIO project and discuss there! I'm pretty sure OHgamer will start a new CLIO V2 map project once the game is out. He's said so already, if I am not mistaken.

 

[unmerged(110676)]

Obviously you've never been to Alaska.

Wilcoxchar: I've no idea if Anchorage was in V1 or not. Really can't remember, and it's not installed now, so I can't look. It was in HoI1 and I think in HoI2 as well, which was a shame. Seward or even Whittier would have been a better fit in that case.

In any case, one thing I'm still unsure on after a brief search. Will provinces in V2 be re-nameable in-game? I know EU3 had that feature, and it would make as much sense here as the colonization aspect is still in play.

Henry

Can I hazard a guess and say you currently live in Alaska?

 

[Taylor]

Can I hazard a guess and say you currently live in Alaska?

He said so in his original post.

 

[unmerged(110676)]

He said so in his original post.

Ah well this is none too surprising then...

 

[OHgamer]

This is the Clio Map for Western North America

In the Clio map for Alaska you have the following provinces

Sikta (SE Alaska Panhandle)
Yakutat (NW Alaska Panhandle)
Kenai (Central Alaska)
Dutch Harbor (SW Alaska and the Aleutians)
Unalakleet (North Alaska)

I think Alaska may be a region that Paradox might have added a couple more provinces due to some of the Clio ones being too big, but do not have those changes yet, but at least you can see what Clio gave Paradox as the basis for the map.

 

[Zakath]

Regarding Norway, I'm a bit curious as to the reasoning behind calling the South Western province "Kristiansand" rather than "Stavanger". Stavanger was a city as far back as 1425, and it's speculated that it was an important cultural and political location as far back as 800AD. Stavanger declined a bit in importance during the 18th century, but then started regaining much of it's importance in the mid 19th century.

From the population census
Stavanger:
1769 - 3337
...
1835 - 7943
1845 - 12058
1855 - 16121
1865 - 21850
...
1930 - 55153

Kristiansand:
1769 - 5365
...
1835 - 11092
1845 - 12147
1855 - 13730
1865 - 15820
...
1930 - 25356

So already by 1845 the cities were at almost the same size, and after that Stavanger steadily pulled ahead. Industrialization wise Stavanger was by far the more important city. In the mid/late 19th century the canning industry was the cornerstone of Stavanger, along with a modest shipbuilding industry. The latter grew more important post-WWI while the canning industry declined.

For Kristiansand I have less information about it, but from what I can recall from my far away lessons in Norwegian history it was primarily a port and market town going back to the viking times.

Population census comes from:
http://www.ssb.no/fob/kommunehefte/1103/fob_1103_tabeller.pdf
http://www.ssb.no/fob/kommunehefte/1001/fob_1001_tabeller.pdf

 

[unmerged(191042)]

So this map wont be compatible with Eu3 in any way?

 

[unmerged(11486)]

OHGamer, if those are the provinces I get, those are the provinces I'll use. I'm not thrilled with the names, obviously, but if they're editable, I'll work on them on day 2. Day 1 will be reserved for playing.

Following your example, I might work on a set of Alaska-related hotfixes and upload them. I'll have to see what things look like.

Henry

 

[Zanza]

As long as Schleswig-Holstein gets the 48 provinces it deserves, I am happy with the map. All 48 provinces are necessary for a correct historical gameplay to simulate the complex interactions of Schleswig-Holsteinian politics, social change, warfare and last but not least economics during the time period. It's one of the pivotal areas of the world for obvious reasons so it should get the necessary attention.

 

[Zanza]

So this map wont be compatible with Eu3 in any way?

I am sure that both maps will show roughly the same area, namely the world. Just in slightly different configurations. So they are compatible in a way. Should be easy to write a mapping table if you want to convert a game (or will Paradox have a tool for that?).

 

[safferli]

I am sure that both maps will show roughly the same area, namely the world. Just in slightly different configurations. So they are compatible in a way. Should be easy to write a mapping table if you want to convert a game (or will Paradox have a tool for that?).

The announcement says there will be a Vicky2 -> HoI3 converter. Nothing about an EU3 -> Vicky2 converter, though. I'm pretty sure there will be a community-made mod for that.

 

[unmerged(71030)]

I personally use Bohemia and Australia as litmus test of all maps, game or otherwise.

Bohemia (I'm using the term to include Moravia and Austrian Silesia) was far more significant in the Vicky timeline than it is today, it was one of the primary sites of the Industrial Revolution in continental Europe, and remained one of the most industrialised and urbanised regions on the continent until WW2. I have no nationalistic biases towards the region, but I have always found it ridiculous how, say, the Netherlands was portrayed in some games with countless zillions of utterly insignificant provinces, whilst Bohemia is shown as a ridiculous conglomeration. As I see it, if this occurs in the game, the map may as well be taken straight out of Risk.

Australia is the second litmus test solely because I'm Australian, and I get to be snobbish and judgemental about obscure town placements in the Gibson Desert.

 

[OHgamer]

I should probably have done this earlier, since few people seem to bother to go to the V1 modding subforum I've linked to previously where the Clio thread is located and has all this info, but anyways here we go.

These are the base maps for Clio that serve as the base for the province setup for V2. Now, a few of the regions have had changes since these screenshots were taken, and Paradox have added further provinces in areas where the Clio provinces were deemed insufficient for the needs of the V2 game engine, but for the most part this outlay, in terms of the land provinces, is pretty much what V2 will be like. The sea provinces are being redesigned by Paradox

Also note that the names of the provinces were the ones we used for Clio and may or may not be the ones that are used by Paradox, that will be their choice.

The next few posts will show shots of the various regions from the Clio map.

Northeast USA/Southeast Canada



Central USA & Canada



US Southeast



Western North America

 

[OHgamer]

Europe :

Scandinavia & Baltic States



British Isles



Low Countries



Germany



France




Iberia



Italy



Switzerland & Austria



Poland, Czech, Slovak, Hungary



Western Balkans



Note - slightly older pic, there have been changes to Slovenia and Montenegro since, as shown in various Dev Diary screenshots.

Eastern Balkans