Yeah, we already noticed that. It's perhaps an acceptable anachronism. We however found some more bugs since then, so this topic's title is still valid.
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Victoria 2 Map Mega Thread.
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Inevitable the map stinks thread, with Poland and the Balkans in the frontlines. Seriously, the Balkans should be a nuclear wasteland on the map.
If were using the modern pc terms for religions and cultures than we ought to be using them for provinces too. Consistency, not that it matters even a little bit, but all their in C19th books some town in a largely irrelevant part of an occupied country was called this debate is utterly daft in the face of the fact that the big things all the modern names despite how english used them at the times
Yup, it was inevitable. I understand Balkans in the 19th century are a minefield. As a long-time Wikipedia editor I've seen all sorts of "This God-forgotten village is rightfully ours" - "No, it's ours since king Blahblah in 13th century". Been there done that.
But what the hell is wrong with Poland? It's not that our map changed that much since 10th century. All the major towns are where they used to be - and all are named the same way since times immemorial. Despite all the efforts by our neighbours Warsaw is still on the western banks of the Vistula (not on northern bank of Bug River, as HoI3 suggests), Lublin is still called Lublin (no, not Spiff), the map remained the same. Then why the hell is Polish map more or less screwed up in almost every Paradox game (except perhaps for EU3)? Makes you think of masonic conspiracies, really
Errr... and your point is?
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Does it matter even remotely how you spell warsaw as long as you still call it by a name people recognise. Its not going to add to the immersion if one province has its name in a different language, its still the name of the place just a different spelling. And quibbling about something so small while being completely ambivalent about something big is just the whole problem with this forum, getting so caught up on the leaves that you miss the forest completely.
France is called france despite the french calling it something quite different, hindi instead of hindoo, north german not northdeutscher, and Poland is called poland and no whatever bestly thing the poles call it themselves and so the polish provinces ought to be in english as well as the game is in english, the people playing it speak english and so as provinces only have names so that the player can recognise them they ought to be the modern english names so as to recognised.
Everything thats not provinces uses the modern english names, and generally american english at that, despite what was used at the time or on the lips of the poor buggers who actually live there. And im sure that if you got the french translation every damned thing would be in French.
So does it matter how one went about spelling a city a hundred years ago in a country that more or less didnt exist at the time? No not at all.
that my good man is my point
France is called france despite the french calling it something quite different, hindi instead of hindoo, north german not northdeutscher, and Poland is called poland and no whatever bestly thing the poles call it themselves and so the polish provinces ought to be in english as well as the game is in english, the people playing it speak english and so as provinces only have names so that the player can recognise them they ought to be the modern english names so as to recognised.
Everything thats not provinces uses the modern english names, and generally american english at that, despite what was used at the time or on the lips of the poor buggers who actually live there. And im sure that if you got the french translation every damned thing would be in French.
So does it matter how one went about spelling a city a hundred years ago in a country that more or less didnt exist at the time? No not at all.
that my good man is my point
Province Names
Haven't been around here much lately, but I figured it was about time for a new Paradox game, and lo and behold, Victoria 2! Victoria was always my favorite of the series, so this is exciting.
I have one significant concern, however. Province names, specifically in Alaska, where I live, are frequently disastrous. Not disastrous in the Napoleon-invading-Russia sense, but rather disgustingly awful in the I-know-nothing-about-the-place-and-didn't-bother-to-ask sense.
In Victoria 1, for example, there was a province of Selawik. While there is a village called this, it is not now, nor has it ever been remotely representative of the area. The province should have been called Nome or preferably Kotzebue.
To be represented properly, I believe Alaska needs eight provinces. The north slope should be its own province (I suggest Barrow, being frozen and producing fish), primarily to insulate the interior from the coast. The interior should be divided roughly in half, the eastern half being either Eagle (preferred) or Fairbanks, producing timber and switching to gold in about 1895; and the western half being either Nome or Kotzebue as above, producing fish and again switching to gold at about 1899 or 1900.
South of Nome/Kotzebue should be Bethel, including the area around the Alaska Peninsula, and producing fish. Dutch Harbor should be it's own province, and should be the first half of the Aleutian Islands; while Amchitka, Attu, or Aleut would be suitable names for the rest of the chain. Both should produce fish.
East of Bethel, including Cook Inlet, Prince William Sound, and Kodiak Island, extending to the beginning of the Panhandle, should be Valdez, which was named such in the late 18th Cent. For the love of all that is holy, PLEASE DO NOT CALL IT ANCHORAGE!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!!! Valdez should produce timber.
The upper half of the Panhandle, just east of Valdez, should be Yakutat or Juneau. Yakutat would be preferred, but the province should produce either fish or timber, and should switch to gold in about 1885.
Finally, the southern half of the Panhandle should be named Ketchikan, and should produce rain. However, since rain is not likely to be a resource, it should produce timber.
If fewer provinces are desired, Barrow could be eliminated, and Eagle and Kotzebue could be extended northwards.
It's my understanding that this game, using the newer engine, allows provinces to be renamed easier. Is this correct? If so, these concerns of mine aren't as significant as before, but nevertheless, it would be great if Paradox could get it right from the beginning. I suppose I could draw a graphical representation of what I'm describing here, and will do so if anyone asks.
Incidentally, if anyone has any Alaska-related questions, I would be happy to answer them, either now, during the Beta process, or whenever. I have no real interest in beta testing the game, but would be more than happy to help out regarding my home State. But send me a PM, though, as I (obviously) don't logon here terribly often.
Henry
Haven't been around here much lately, but I figured it was about time for a new Paradox game, and lo and behold, Victoria 2! Victoria was always my favorite of the series, so this is exciting.
I have one significant concern, however. Province names, specifically in Alaska, where I live, are frequently disastrous. Not disastrous in the Napoleon-invading-Russia sense, but rather disgustingly awful in the I-know-nothing-about-the-place-and-didn't-bother-to-ask sense.
In Victoria 1, for example, there was a province of Selawik. While there is a village called this, it is not now, nor has it ever been remotely representative of the area. The province should have been called Nome or preferably Kotzebue.
To be represented properly, I believe Alaska needs eight provinces. The north slope should be its own province (I suggest Barrow, being frozen and producing fish), primarily to insulate the interior from the coast. The interior should be divided roughly in half, the eastern half being either Eagle (preferred) or Fairbanks, producing timber and switching to gold in about 1895; and the western half being either Nome or Kotzebue as above, producing fish and again switching to gold at about 1899 or 1900.
South of Nome/Kotzebue should be Bethel, including the area around the Alaska Peninsula, and producing fish. Dutch Harbor should be it's own province, and should be the first half of the Aleutian Islands; while Amchitka, Attu, or Aleut would be suitable names for the rest of the chain. Both should produce fish.
East of Bethel, including Cook Inlet, Prince William Sound, and Kodiak Island, extending to the beginning of the Panhandle, should be Valdez, which was named such in the late 18th Cent. For the love of all that is holy, PLEASE DO NOT CALL IT ANCHORAGE!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!!! Valdez should produce timber.
The upper half of the Panhandle, just east of Valdez, should be Yakutat or Juneau. Yakutat would be preferred, but the province should produce either fish or timber, and should switch to gold in about 1885.
Finally, the southern half of the Panhandle should be named Ketchikan, and should produce rain. However, since rain is not likely to be a resource, it should produce timber.
If fewer provinces are desired, Barrow could be eliminated, and Eagle and Kotzebue could be extended northwards.
It's my understanding that this game, using the newer engine, allows provinces to be renamed easier. Is this correct? If so, these concerns of mine aren't as significant as before, but nevertheless, it would be great if Paradox could get it right from the beginning. I suppose I could draw a graphical representation of what I'm describing here, and will do so if anyone asks.
Incidentally, if anyone has any Alaska-related questions, I would be happy to answer them, either now, during the Beta process, or whenever. I have no real interest in beta testing the game, but would be more than happy to help out regarding my home State. But send me a PM, though, as I (obviously) don't logon here terribly often.
Henry
Yeah, I saw that, but I figured this was different and specific enough to warrant it's own thread. All appearances aside, I'm not exactly a forum rube.
Are you talking about the present day, or the 19th century? I've never seen an even remotely modern map with a city called "Cracow".
I'm not aware of American and British English having different names for places. Regardless, the spelling in the English localization in general is in British English, not American. If you don't believe me, just search the folders of a Paradox game for a file called "localization". (Hint: there isn't one.)
If we start bickering about province naming I have to throw my two Austrian Euro cent in it too. The province of Sankt Pölten should be renamed Wiener Neustadt (or Wr. Neustadt). If there was a regional center in the southern part of Lower Austria it was definitly not St. Pölten at the time. In 1835 it was neither a center for production nor population wise compared to Wr. Neustadt, which is the southern center of the larger Viennese industrial region that stretched down there (connected through channels and later railroads much earlier than the rest of the country). It also was about twice as big as Sankt Pölten - which slowly caught up and only overtook it in the mid 1930ties. And Sankt Pölten did only gain real importance as a town when it was made regional capital in the late 1980ties.
Well, we haven't seen any Alaska screenshots yet, but the map for Victoria 2 will be the CLIO map. So you might want to take a look here, and see if Alaska is to your liking.
- Dec 14, 1999
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Another thing spotted, this time in Russian Siberia. The province of Bauntovskiy is apparently named after the modern Bauntovskiy district. While the Baunt lake was obviously there in Vicky timeframe, the region was simple known as Buryatia back then.
EDIT: first post updated with all things spotted so far.
Cheers
EDIT: first post updated with all things spotted so far.
Cheers
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Victoria province names are based on city/town/hamlet/village names, NOT regional names. Buryatia would be appropriate for an EU3 province (though I would not use it for that province, the Buryats in the main live further west, that province is more inhabited by various Tungu peoples, not Mongolophone Buryats), but not IMHO for V2.
And as for your edited list at post 1, honestly you are not proposing new town names (with one exception, and either Saint Polten or Wiener Neustadt could be used for that region of Lower Austria), but simply variations on the spelling/orthography of the town chosen to represent the district. I'll leave it up to Paradox to pick the final versions they choose, but personally I think the issue is one in the end up to player preference, and you'll never have 100% agreement on names. The names currently used are the ones Xie and I at Clio chose, and we feel that for gameplay purposes they work fine. Thankfully, the player can choose to edit the names of the communities in the textfiles to display Vilnius, Vilna, Wilno, province 666 or whatever they wish to display.
The problem here is Bauntovskiy is neither a city nor town/hamlet/village. In Russian it's an adjective meaning "of Baunt (lake)" and its' name refers specifically to the lake. It could be thus translated as "the region of Baunt lake". The capital of the region is the village of Bagdarin.
That's too bad. Well, for gameplay purpose any name is fine. Stalingrad would work just fine in EU3 ("we'll call it Stalingrad, but you can always prepare a mod and call that place Volgograd in it")
You've done a great job in most places, too bad nothing can be done about the few wrong names. Seriously, Vilnius is not a 19th century name. It's like calling Chemnitz Karl-Marx-Stadt in Vicky timeframe. Not to mention Russian names for places that were never in Russia (like Stanislawow). And Styri is indeed a typo. But it surely is your call, it's up to you to leave it in. After all who cares if it's London or Lodnon.
Over and out.
Alaska is nowhere near important enough to receive eight provinces, especially since Paradox has never represented the north slope in a game. Looking at the CLIO map it looks about right.
And why should the province be called Anchorage? Anchorage wasn't founded until 1914, and so is barely in the Vicky 2 timeline. And Nome wasn't founded until 1899. Since a sale of Russian Alaska to the United States probably won't be likely in Vicky 2, they should base the names on prominent Russian settlements, not later American ones.
And why should the province be called Anchorage? Anchorage wasn't founded until 1914, and so is barely in the Vicky 2 timeline. And Nome wasn't founded until 1899. Since a sale of Russian Alaska to the United States probably won't be likely in Vicky 2, they should base the names on prominent Russian settlements, not later American ones.
If I may put my two cents in:
Many of you may not be aware that this map is not something Paradox put together hurriedly, as indicated its the CLIO map project being used by Paradox. The map spent some 2 years in development with a crapload of community involvement, and I can tell you that OH and Xie were very willing to make revisions during that time; some regions got redone a few times. A few of my own suggestions even made it in.
If y'all go over to the Vic 1 forums and view the screens, you'lll find that the new Vic map is the best and most complete map ever made for a Paradox game. Something else to note about the map: it was also made for makers of modern-day scenarios, so using a 20th C. name on the map could well be a WaD feature for gameplay on that end of things.
Many of you may not be aware that this map is not something Paradox put together hurriedly, as indicated its the CLIO map project being used by Paradox. The map spent some 2 years in development with a crapload of community involvement, and I can tell you that OH and Xie were very willing to make revisions during that time; some regions got redone a few times. A few of my own suggestions even made it in.
If y'all go over to the Vic 1 forums and view the screens, you'lll find that the new Vic map is the best and most complete map ever made for a Paradox game. Something else to note about the map: it was also made for makers of modern-day scenarios, so using a 20th C. name on the map could well be a WaD feature for gameplay on that end of things.