Victoria 1.04 record immigration!

[TheFlemishDuck]

I'm going slightly mad:

This was mostly a sort of test game to see how much poppulation i could get trough immigration, withought the goal to end up top, though i almost got there to.Anyway in past versions i never achieved such extreme rates, in 1.03 i would have reached about 60 to 80 million people, still impressive, but this is just rediculous.Afcourse i have by far the highest national poppulation, pretty funny to that quite some majors have lost substantial poppulation to me, all my pops are stacked into 2 super regions with max capitalists so inustrial effeciancy is very high, an about 70 to 80% of the poppulation is either clerk or craftsmen.

Anyway, it seems that in 1.04 you can get double the immigrants you could get in 1.03c, or was there ever anyone who reached such results in 1.03? Mind you no cheating at all, no land trades or tech selling or any of the obvious exploits or go arounds.I might have got more to, though probably not much more, maybe an aditional 10-20mill.But then the game hasn't ende neither, an at a late rate i get about 3 million immigrants a year.immigration does ten to increase in volume in the late game in this patch.I had month's where i gained half a million, pop growth and immigration combined.

Btw. the USA ha quite a (relativly) low national pop at the end of the game ,about 70 to 80 million.

K, ill stop gloating now.

 

[OHgamer]

If you set out to make yourself an immigrant magnet with the best of all things, you will become one. Isn't that what players wanted in the first place?

People complained before that only the USA could get immigrants and other countries that had historically received immigrants, even with reforms better than the USA's, could not hardly attract any.

So the USA bonus was reduced, not removed, but reduced to give other nations a shot to become the "promised land" for the huddled masses yearning to be free. And if you do everything right, and the USA for whatever reason does something wrong, voila you become said promised land.

At the same time, Uruguay never had all the reforms that you likely enacted in this game to maximize immigration attraction, so in the end playing ahistorically produces ahistorical results. As it should.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

All fair, but personally i din't agree with the "there is to few immigration in 1.03" complaints, having in the past stacked 80 million with such country's as Urugay an Haiti.I get the impression that those people who complained didn't really know well how to maximize immigration.

Still, youre right that i shouldn't complain.I don't think most players will achieve such results anyway.But it's still darn impressive, an it shows that playing minor's in 1.04 doesn't mean that you can't end on top.

I think the problem with some historical immigrant country's not getting many of them is due to heir setup, like not getting a liberal party to work with.Apart from that country's as Urugay and Haiti have an certain advantage that dhey start with very few pops, so reforsm are blatantly cheap.I made the reforms for Urugay here as usuall at start, by selling stockpiles, when i still had only my starting 120.000 poppulation, it i only cost me roughly 4000£ to make all the best reforms.But even then plurality remains crucial an determinal.

Ah well, it's not to complain, rather to gloat that i attached this pic.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

At the same time, Uruguay never had all the reforms that you likely enacted in this game to maximize immigration attraction, so in the end playing ahistorically produces ahistorical results. As it should.

A note to this.Imo immigration should increase/decrease depending on how much youre pouring in youre social slider to.That i can make all reforms yet pay virtually none of it and still use this as immigrant attractor is somewhat gamey, not paying youre social slider means that all youre social reforms amount to nothing.I do not set the social slider fully to 0 as that does decrease immigration but paying the symbolic 0.1£ seems to work just as well.

With the increased RGO's immigration has become a lot easier.In pevious patches youre immigrants wen to low value Rgo's while you had liberal party limitations and that often ment a serious hamper on industrialization, with the increased RGO's however immigrants now bring in a very neat pound to, so much that the more immigrants you get in the more youre raw profit increased to.

 

[november]

Wow--good show!

You're not complaining, are you? I would lose interest in Vicky if it became merely a tame VIP; that is, a lot of scripted events in order to ensure historical results.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

Wow--good show!

You're not complaining, are you? I would lose interest in Vicky if it became merely a tame VIP; that is, a lot of scripted events in order to ensure historical results.

Well we disagree about VIP i think.Quite more scripted events indeed but nothing is ever set in stone in his regard, VIp is with some practice just as easy as vanilla 1.03 really, sure the costs are higher but you get used to it fairly quick.

And really minor's arn't made impossible in any way, though costs are added rgo income has been to, so accumulation of profit is now easier and wars get more profitable.Before this game i played a game with one of my favourite's, Serbia, and managed to form the historical Yougoslavia despite an fairly strong Ottoman and Austria.As i see it added difficulty usually only makes you refine youre strategy's better.

Anyway, iknow youre not a big VIP fan, i'm on the other hand are and can't wait to get my hands on it.But then again i don't play quite as much multiplayer and o so more singleplayer.On the other hand i do not like the goods witholding strategy's of multiiplayer much.

 

[Ciçatrix]

I knew Uruguay was good, that is why I am playing them myself right now.
And I like the immigration.

 

[AzJeff]

Could this be a side-effect of the new rules for AI taxing at 100%?

Those POPs are no longer dying off, thus populations continue to grow - and that means more people available for emigration.

I think the POP growth values/modifiers needs to be re-visited in light of this.

- j

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

Could this be a side-effect of the new rules for AI taxing at 100%?

Those POPs are no longer dying off, thus populations continue to grow - and that means more people available for emigration.

I think the POP growth values/modifiers needs to be re-visited in light of this.

- j

Nope, pops start moving when having no cash reserve's and 0% life needs goods received.But when that happenens pop growth will also go into negative, atleast for that pop, for the whole nation only if alll pops have no cash and life needs.Thus a country that chases pops away with no life needs will also have negative growth.

Millitacy is the great factor.At the same time for ex that large numbers of rebels apeared in germany i sudently had high bursts of Germans moving in.Certain pops will almost always move, like Irish or certain russian minority's.the liberal revolution often will increase immigration speed, and more such thing's.I noticed that most of my immigrants came from monarchy's like Russia, where militancy rises more easily.About Ireland giving quite some immigrants early on blame the potato plague and such.

Why did i get 150 million now opposed to the possibly 80 million in 1.03? the decrease of US immigraion i wager.

See my country was really a uber-magnet for them " huddled masses yearning to be free" as Ohgamer put's it so plasticly.All reforms enacted (not full on workhours though, but the basic) ,democracy and all right's, Liberal pary and most importantly uber-plurality.Hence i wouldn't be surprized if my country actually sucked up about all immigration possible to get, apart maybe from that few imigration that the USA still gets possibly hardcoded.
Thats often how it happens though with immigration, rather than to be spread about evenly to immigrator country's usually the one with the best value's get's the big brunt, while the other's get about nothing at all or a minimal rate.And because USA has been towned down in 1.04 on immigration, i think i just "stole the US it's immigrant's" rather than that so much more immigration would happen now in volume.And it looks logical to my calculation.150 million people is about 90 million immigrants and the other 60 millin i got due to good healthcare, afcourse that was no difference with 1.03 where i would have 80 million people, 50-60 million immigrants and about the rest trough pop growth.So if i look at the difference in guestimated raw immigration, 30 to 40 million immigrants, it looks to me as just that amount of immigrants that would have otherwise went to the USA in 1.03 with an other strong immigrator country. (and about 90 mill if USA was taking it all)

 

[AzJeff]

^^ That's exactly my point - the POPs are no longer dying off, thus there are more for the AI to send into abject poverty and emigrate.

Before 1.04, there were two negatives to a country's population:

1) 100% taxes causing POP deaths;
2) High taxes causing negative Pop growth due to emigration

Now there is only one negative :

1) High taxes causing negative Pop growth due to emigration

Of course the changes to US immigration are having an affect too.

- j

 

[unmerged(32019)]

Wowwww....Those figures are astounding!!!

Ok, so you went for ideological thought early, got in a liberal party, and overtaxed (to what extent, btw?) the population to further increase plurality. What else?
Which social and political reforms do i need the most to become such an immigration magnet, considering i can only afford so much as a minor?
Also, should one really forget about railroads in the early years to build up the kind of cash that is required to finance those reforms?
By what time in your game did you really see the masses coming in?

I gave universal suffrage and low health care, but it doesn´t really seem to be doing too much (playing as Columbia).

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

^^ That's exactly my point - the POPs are no longer dying off, thus there are more for the AI to send into abject poverty and emigrate.

No it's not! I'm not sure about he AI taing 100% but i think you are correct that indeed it does tax that much.But, regardless of the tax, people tend to migrate mainly, atleast i think so, according how millitant they are.it seems to me that especially minority's of empire's migrate, or i not that pops of a country going trough substantial civil unrest.Regardless if they have cash reserves or not!

Atleast you would think so by the type and location from where most migranting pops come from.Irish, balkan, Polish ,Jewish ,greek, Armenians and all that sort of minority's of empire's with no so pleasent minority attitude's and some militancy.Afcourse ruskies and germans and such tend to migrate to, but consider that there are substantially more of those from where they came from, atleast for national pops.In this sense it's noticable that millitancy events and sudden burst of militancy can quite increase the rate of migration.Monarchy's and liberal revolution combined in minority holding empire's is typicly produces bursts of minority immigrants from that country.Usually these are country's like Turkey and Russia.Well i have very often checked the orrigin of my immigrants, and while they came from all over the world most came from Russia and the OE.

I havn't shown my poppulation breakdown but 5% of my poppulation was unassimilated russian, 3% unassimilated Germans (all immigated as social pops) 92% Platinian.That means about 7.5 million ruskies, but note that with high pop growth from excelent healthcare the origin of these would have been 4 to 5 million cultural russian pops.And Russia did lose some wars, and quite some land to, and even Ukrain revolted, right in the midst of an Crimean revolt btw. ,they spilt the country among eachtoher while revolting in a weird patchwork, it looked quite ugly, and Then russia stompe a bit around, the crimeans did put up a good fight Until the ukrainian holding's of east ukraine fell.It's all so dramatic while youre playing a game of catching the immigrants, and you see these poor people flocking in mass to youre country, here have a cup of freedom, and maybe a jar of liberty ,an a hammer to do jour job so i don't have to pay you welfare, that would be what i'd say.

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

Wowwww....Those figures are astounding!!! Ok, so you went for ideological thought early, got in a liberal party, and overtaxed (to what extent, btw?) the population to further increase plurality. What else? Which social and political reforms do i need the most to become such an immigration magnet, considering i can only afford so much as a minor? Also, should one really forget about railroads in the early years to build up the kind of cash that is required to finance those reforms? By what time in your game did you really see the masses coming in? I gave universal suffrage and low health care, but it doesn´t really seem to be doing too much (playing as Columbia).

A rough timeline

-1836: 120.000 poppulation

-1836 -june 1837: I sell my stockpiles, piece by piece! A very tedious job but it ensures the best price.i also accumulate some money from tax, about 900£ ,while seling the stockpiles grants me about 3800£.I overtax from the start because i want pop reserve's to be 0, i even close a rgo for that (the northern one) until their funds dry out.I hold an ellection towars the fall while accumulating money.I grant reforms on may 29th.About 800£ for 1 full reform ,means about 3200£ for Full healthcare, full pension funds, full unemployement funds an full minimum wages.The other reforms are 14 max workhours an low safety.

-june 1837 it started, people where poor but had rights and wanted a good party, a liberal party!

-1841 1.000.000 poppulation. Tech priority goes to mechanical production at this point, an freedom of trade.When new ellections happen at this point the conservatives come to power again ,some decrease in immigration for 9 month's while we hold a new ellection overtax the poppulation.A cloth factory is being build, When ready it allows craftsmen immigrants to stay craftsmen, they are liberals to.Lots of craftsmen come.

-1845 2.000.000 poppulation. Cultural techs are being researched to get ideological thought. Another 9 month conservative swith and income boost.

-1845 trough to 1848 The conservative party comes to power again.reason for this is a time is having researched just timely ideological thought.At this point i have only 6 plurality yet, though i maximize on conciousness where possible and genneraly kept it at 10.The ideological thought give me -30 or so plurality, but because plurality can't go in negative it drops simply to 0.Once fired the conservative events can't fire again, with thx to Sleepyhead to remind me of that.Because i am at 0 plurality now i don't get any immigration anymore for several years ,afterall it takes a couple of years for the conservative ideological thought events to fire.

-1848 trough to 1850: after having had the events and then held an ellection, with overtaxing pops again and having created a clerk pop, the liberal party comes yet again to power.The economy is slowly rising but steady, rails get researched and build.Now the ideological thought events of the liberals hit, and plurality rises steadily to about 35, and immigratioon with it.Tech priority is on state and goverment, to get popullism and meritocracy.I did research quite a lot of cluture events quite early but got IMO quite unlucky with prestige events, as you may have noticed a few 1000 prestige woul have one all the difference.Anyway trough state and goverment plurality get's an aditional notch to about 50-55.

-1855: 3.000.000

-1860: 4.500.000

-1870:: 8.000.000

-1880: 15.000.000

-1890: 35.000.000 poppulation, by now Plurality is going over 80. I slap Brazil and Argentina.By the time brazil can even react to my invasion it's capital has been occupied by my marines and the south as well, war can be so short, Same goes for argentina and it's coastal capital.Not that i hadn't enough power, 35 mil sure is a solid base in South America.The most important thing to remember here is that i take a region close to me, namely the one i took from Brazil, that has more province's than my capital region and thus also get's immigrants.By being more province's it's even a bit more attractive, though immigrants still go to montevideo and such.other smaller regions i took from argentina get no immigration, but they are platinians we freed from the argentine yoke.this was probaly quite a crucial step, an from this experience i beginning to think that i should have conquered Caliornia, though i wondered if the no lan connection woul make a ifference here, either to rate or assimilation, but i think not.Anyway by having now more immigran attracting province's and 80 plurality immigration really skyrockets.

.... no cencus from then onward, didn't save from there, just a massive rise towards 150.000.000 ,because of plurality hitting sky high and having a sizeable number of province's attracting immigration.

An important lesson here is, as to really maximalize immigration, afcourse get plurality high, but also get a good number of immigrant attracting province's.
And here i think the folowing rules applies:

-As strong immigrant attractor youre home region will virtually always attract immigrants.And aside from that the region with most province's will also attract immigrants.If youre capitol region has most province's, then it means you won't have 2 immigrant attracting regions for now, but afcourse thats a moot point because big regions pull a lot of immigrants by virtue of having lots of province's for pops to go to.And the nicest bonus is that you can always capture an additional region, and two big regions might even pull quite more immigrants than 2 smaller ones!

-I'm pretty sure that if you conquer a region on another continent with a stong immigrant attractor, that all youre immigration will go to that colony instead granted that it has more size than youre national region.In that case it will stop all immigration to youre national province, an possibly forever to youre home to, even if you give the colony away.Aditionally the imigrants going to youre colony will not assimilate.While this can destroy youre immigration to home you can take strategic (gold!) rgo's an really stack them full.

-I'm somewhat sure that if you have a lanconnection to the most sizeable region, and it's on the same continent, then pops will assimilate inside that region.I'm not sure when it's on the continent but has no land connection.

Well that was about how it went.Some thing's i learned about egion sellection and working youreself up in that regard.note that it's good to spread immigration somehhat over region's, because then the poppulation growth has more effect.

Now to get someone to beat this record.

 

[unmerged(32019)]

A very interesting read, thanks for that And nicely done!!!

So i take it that you tax all classes at 100% for a relatively short time, when you try to increase the liberal % for an upcoming election, right? What are your tax levels at other times? After all, continuous 100% taxation would hurt population growth... Do you then vary the lax levels for the different classes?

Columbia 1880. Conservatives at 80%, liberals at 15%, etc. Overtaxed at 100% for about 2 years or so, trying to finally get the liberals in. After 2 years, the figures had changed drastically to about 60% socialists (!!!), 30 % liberals and 8% conservatives. However, the Partido Conservador still managed to win the election (just barely). Turned back to normal tax rates (about 43% for all) afterward and saw the socialists disappear completely after a relatively short time, and the conservatives climb back up to 65%, and the liberals to about 34%... I suppose i still have too many farmers and labourers, and not enough liberal craftmen and clerks to really have a chance at this point against the conservatives...

 

[Benz]

voting reform = wealth, stiffler

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

A very interesting read, thanks for that And nicely done!!!

So i take it that you tax all classes at 100% for a relatively short time, when you try to increase the liberal % for an upcoming election, right? What are your tax levels at other times? After all, continuous 100% taxation would hurt population growth... Do you then vary the lax levels for the different classes?

Columbia 1880. Conservatives at 80%, liberals at 15%, etc. Overtaxed at 100% for about 2 years or so, trying to finally get the liberals in. After 2 years, the figures had changed drastically to about 60% socialists (!!!), 30 % liberals and 8% conservatives. However, the Partido Conservador still managed to win the election (just barely). Turned back to normal tax rates (about 43% for all) afterward and saw the socialists disappear completely after a relatively short time, and the conservatives climb back up to 65%, and the liberals to about 34%... I suppose i still have too many farmers and labourers, and not enough liberal craftmen and clerks to really have a chance at this point against the conservatives...

From a certain date on taxing 100% will turn pops socialist rather than liberals.It's still usefull though as socialists means less conservatives, but you nee a few more liberals then.I think upto 1860 porr pops stil turn all liberal when overtaxed, after that mostly socialist.

Yes i tax 100% for a short time only when ellections come up, depening on how much cash reserve's pop have.Sometimes you need to close Rgo's where pops are earning much to get the reserve's down fast enough.Anyway i only have ngative growt for a few months tops.otherwise when having conservatives i tax about 94% to get their reserves down fast but just not have egative growth yet, though i think you need to fidle hee depending the country.i hope you know how wha pop reserve's are and that you can monitor them, and that you know that pop ideoligy changes and negative growth value only change on the en of the month each time. (or not if no changes)

afcourse i don't overtax middle and rich, conservative rates here, 54% midle and 64% rich usually, works for most civs.

When i'm with a liberal party, afcourse taxes are 50% over the board (unless those rare cases of interventionist liberals) and those few tarrifs.Don't care much about that, when immigration is coming in you get increased profit while fidling with youre thumbs, so while the less taxes may seem a loss the potential it unlocks can be much greater than what you'd get by accumulating money.

About reforms in the Case with columbia, with it's apparent cost due to poppulation it's always a ifficult point, havn't tested Columbia in this patch.But i'd say so many reforms arn't important, though healtcare is quite an advantage in these cases.I think it's more important as Columbia to go straith for ideological thought, mechanical production and freedom of trade, preferably in that order (but if one pops up early take it first), get those ideological thought events first with conservatives fast while you tax substantially and build up funds.Then when that's over, buil a ready factory for the future craftsmen, make some reforms maybe at the mid level, somewhat better healthcare.Then overtax and get a ellection and liberal party, a.Get plurality trough liberal ideological thought events an watch as possibly some immigration gets in.you might still be unlucky to not have yet enough appeal, but if you from then on build youre plurality big trough culture events and conciousness you should have some fair immigration in the later game when it comes at higher rate's.

In the case of columbia, i wouldn't have waited for immigration till you got youre first reform.social programs are a ifficult part for columbia

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

voting reform = wealth, stiffler

disagree, seriously impairs rate IMO, not that it's impossible to get immigration trough that but not as much.

 

[jdrou]

A note to this.Imo immigration should increase/decrease depending on how much youre pouring in youre social slider to.That i can make all reforms yet pay virtually none of it and still use this as immigrant attractor is somewhat gamey, not paying youre social slider means that all youre social reforms amount to nothing.I do not set the social slider fully to 0 as that does decrease immigration but paying the symbolic 0.1£ seems to work just as well.

A very good point. Hopefully they look into this if they do another patch.

 

[Benz]

huh?just to get liberals in power

 

[unmerged(32019)]

Good points made. Was wondering about the voting reform to "wealth"... Are the wealthy determined by cash reserve (so a farmer pop with large cash reserves would count more toward the vote than another pop with less cash), or simply by status (ie. an officer will always have a greater say than a labourer for example, irrelevant of cash reserve differences)?

Even with possible advantages to get a certain party into power, changing the voting status prior to/during an election, only to change back again afterward (since u. suffrage does appear the better bet for immigration) seems prohibitively expensive for a minor in early years.

Yes, i am using the ledger extensively, monitoring my pop´s rather closely. Gotta love Paradox for those ledgers...