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Monkbel

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Hi,

the problem is similar with Austrian Anschluss.
When Vichy France is formed, French divisions suddenly disappear. This is not right. They should be passed to Vichy.

ps: 1.3rc3
 

Von Vampyre

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The ? would then be how many? Some French forces & ships fled to Britain others deserted plus a lot of equipment (as well as BEF's) was destroyed to prevent German capture and some fought for Vichy.

Didnt HoI1 have an event to reflect this?
 

Lestat

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No, they would not be. The armistice signed in 1940 reduced the French army to 100 000 soldiers in the unoccupied territory of Vichy ( it was the same number for the Reichswehr after World War I), the other who were not prisoner have to be disarmed. And there were more than 1,5 millions prisoners of war in german Stalags....
So Vichy France should definitely not inherit all French divisions....
 

joe_dracos

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Vichy France should keep 100 MP worth of land and Air units. 25% of the french fleet should be destroyed out right by the UK event while another 25%defect to the Free French forces. Those army units in the colonies should remain in vichy control while any army units evacuated to Britian should remain under Free French control at reduced strength (to represent the loss of equiptment). When the countries unity reaches a certain low the army should break into a full on retreat for the ports to be evacuated (favouring Marseilles and Tulon). UK and Free France should also be able to attack Vichy french colonies with no decaration of war (Reverting to french control).

This is probably beyond the games programing.
 

menasure

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real history should be optional, not a requirement in a simulation game. there's more than one way to handle vichy and what made sense (or presumed to make sense) in history might not be logical in game when things evolve in a unhistorical way.
if a player controls germany then there should be different options and consequences because the germans also explored those historically and they made their choice based on their perception of the situation at the time. same goes for any nation which conquers france in game btw.
 

heteaho

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As some others have mentioned, given the sandbox nature of this game it should be possible to do things differently from the historical germans. Makes no sense that we are stuck with the exact same result from the vichy events as happened in real history.
 
Jan 15, 2009
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if the op had said vichy france should inherit a few divisions then he might have had a case. assuming we want historical accuracy, the majority of the divisions would be in the colonies, and be mostly inf with some cav.

the navy is an interesting issue. though the armistice stated germany would not try to take the french navy, we all know how unlikely hitler was to keep a promise if breaking it gave him an advantage.
 

Earl Uhtred

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France becoming Free French by default at capitulation is a huge misrepresentation. At the time it was established Vichy WAS the French government. Not until '42 was 'Free France' anything more than a fringe organisation skirmishing over irrelevant colonies on behalf of the British.

Vichy should suffer a disarmament event on establishment, but Free France should be the aberration until Vichy collapses.
 

AspiringWarlord

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Hi,

the problem is similar with Austrian Anschluss.
When Vichy France is formed, French divisions suddenly disappear. This is not right. They should be passed to Vichy.

ps: 1.3rc3
I disagree.

As the 1940 Franco-German Armistice limited the Vichy regime's army to 100,000 men and as the Germans took one to two million French POWs, the Vichy should receive at most a handful of divisions. If PI wants to keep the game relatively historical, the Germans should receive a substantial MP boost that reflects the large number of German industrial workers released to military service when French POWs were sent to German labor camps.
 
Jan 15, 2009
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I disagree.

As the 1940 Franco-German Armistice limited the Vichy regime's army to 100,000 men and as the Germans took one to two million French POWs, the Vichy should receive at most a handful of divisions. If PI wants to keep the game relatively historical, the Germans should receive a substantial MP boost that reflects the large number of German industrial workers released to military service when French POWs were sent to German labor camps.
100,000 in france. another 150,000 in the colonies
 

loki100

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In purely game terms (this was in 1.2 in any case), Vichy probably is too weak in terms of military power. Not sure what is the best solution as it is a case that probably needs a load of special rules to handle, but recently as Turkey I ended up the proud owner of all Vichy territories, incl S France, without in any way upsetting Germany. Fun, but probably implausible, and it was def too easy just in military terms - they didn't have the 7-8 divs (+ HQs) that 100,000 would imply.
 

nwinther

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I find that the game lacks events - and especially selectable events. The HOI2 Molotov-Ribbentrop was a good example of an "a-historical" event, where you could do different things with different outcomes.

The Surrender of France should also have a number of different potential outcomes. Examples: "Historical outcome". "Germany reaches for the French Fleet" (where each french ship has X % chance of being wither scuttled, sailed (surrendered) to Britain or handed over to Germany), "Complete Occupation (incl. Navy-bracket)". "Franco-German Alliance" (Where France becomes a German puppet, but is not occupied and keeps her fleet).

Each with secondary concequences, such as dissent, trade-agreements, resource-acquisition etc. etc.

This should be coded into many more events - the Belgian and Dutch surrenders, also events in HOI2 are (to my knowledge) gone now.

This way, you can play a mildly a-historical game, or go completely bonkers - depending on your mood.
 

unmerged(172501)

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I know that we have Governments in exile, but I've never seen anything from them later in the game. Do they have any code for later appearances by Free French or Free Polish forces? Poles ended WWII as the 4th largest allied contingent if I recall correctly. Maybe an event where the UK provides the IC to build units with Free French/Polish MP?
 

joe_dracos

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Okay I understand the desire for an a-historical game. However since the Vichy France Event "as is" is the historical outcome it should have the full historical outcome (just to give Free France some military power) and the ability for the UK to "Cease" French colonies for military bases and what not. This would also allow for Operation Torch and a secure Mediteranean Sea.
 

Meadhros

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IMO the whole Vichy system is wrong. First of all, Vichy is a rediculous name, after the government seat, and a more proper name would be the French State (L'etat Francais)*. However, I would not be "Vichy" to "declare independence", but the Free French. The regime in Vichy was the legitimate government that signed a cease fire with the Germans, while the Free French were a sort of military counter-government in Britain and later in the colonies.
In the HoI system there is no reason for the player to surrender, as fighting on will keep all the colonies while the Germans have to fight for the remainder of France, surrendering will lose you almost everything to Vichy except a small colony in Africa.
Thus, when France remembers it should keep the unoccupied part in France and the colonies, while after some time the Free French should declare indepence in some colonies and gain more colonies via events. Then there would be a real reason for France to surrender, as it gets out of the war and still keeps a reasonable part of land. (And would regain much of the occupied lands with a pro-German government if Germany wins the war and a real peace treaty is signed.)

There are a lot of these wrong names in common use which sometimes annoy me a lot. Obvious examples are ofcours Russia for Soviet Union, America for USA, England for Great Britain or UK and Holland for the Netherlands, but especcially Byzantium for the (East-)Roman Empire, at pains me that even serious historical works use these names.