Vichy Event

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Re: Re: Re: Vichy Event

Originally posted by olivier
Go back reading your history books pal, the Germans did not enter Paris during WWI. From wherever you come from (you did not have the courage to put your location), I'm sure your people lowered their pants at least once in their history...It happened to all, even the best.

Did I ro did I not say within the last half century? Now did they or did they not enter Paris during the Franco-Prussian war? If they didn't, then I apologize, but that's hardly grounds for belligerence, now is it? The point is made, the French had a decidedly fatalistic response, Paris the 'icing on the cake of defeat' after so much had already transpired. I think the event to create Vichy France is warranted, 'nuff said. Never said you had to agree, or that it was based upon anything other than my own opinion, and one that intends to play Germany and try it out soon as I get my paws on HoI.

 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Vichy Event

Originally posted by Faeelin
My god! He's right.

The Franco Prussian war was 70 years ago, you idiot. For that historical inaccuracy, I condemn the to the depths of hell! You shall be sentenced to... playing axis and allies instead of HOI!

Hey, we Americans admit we suck at geography. Don't remember the specifics of too many 19th Century wars, either.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Faeelin
What bothers me is that Italy's screwed.

"Well, even though you've taken the entire south, we're going to give it to the French. Sorry Mussolini."

Hmm. Maybe there's a reason so many italians welcomed the switch in sides.

That only happens if Italy is part of the Axis. So if u want to keep those lands, stay out. But if u choose to join Germany's alliance u have to accept the fact Germany is the leader.

 

[Jon Shafer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vichy Event

Originally posted by Baudolino
Hey, we Americans admit we suck at geography. Don't remember the specifics of too many 19th Century wars, either.

Yeah, it's true.
Being that I'm a history major I had a slight advantage. Back in 8th grade we used to have these little geography competitions in my social studies class. I did so well the teacher pitted me against the rest of the class (about 25 other people), and I won 21 to 15.

 

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Teacher's pet.

 

[Jon Shafer]

You have the roles switched my dear friend...

 

[John Poole]

Originally posted by olivier
Go back reading your history books pal, the Germans did not enter Paris during WWI. From wherever you come from (you did not have the courage to put your location), I'm sure your people lowered their pants at least once in their history...It happened to all, even the best.

I think I like you olivier! Anyway France during WWII was much smaller in economy and population than it is today...and Germany had so many demographic and economic advantages it was not really a fair fight. In order to achieve numerical balance the French had to rely on the armed forces of the Belgians and Dutch...two countries who refused to even talk to the French about their plans for fear of "provoking" the Germans . It would have taken strategic and tactical genius for France to win...and of course they could only provide strategic and tactical incompetence. I am not sure it had anything to do with the French Army's will to fight...at least according to the account by Marc Bloch a WWI and WWII veteran. He was also a gifted historian...and a Jew unfortunately for him.

I plan on finding a way for France to defeat the German attack...I am just not sure what good that will do as the French will get worn down eventually...

 

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Originally posted by John_Keats
The only place it would be a problem is in multiplayer. But in multiplayer usually you play with friends or people who you can deal with and place house rules against general cheapness.

Excuse me??

Did I hear correctly?

The use of airborne troops is "cheapness"?

I'm sure the early victims of Germany thought the same thing about Blitzkrieg.

I object to ppl thinking in terms of house rules for solutions to such problems. The solution is.....defend Paris! It wouldn't be that hard to delay an unsupported airborne assault long enough to bring in heavy units to clean it up - at least its not that hard in World in Flames.

I know, I know, what about in a multiplayer game where the AI is France and doesn't defend Paris. If the AI doesn't defend its capital I can only assume its in a bad situation already and cant spare front line forces....and where are its human allies anyway?

My Aussie 2c
(which isnt even in circulation anymore)

 

[Mordoch]

Note, the France player can opt to continue to fight on with the Vichy Event, so a human player doesn't get any benefit from pulling this stunt in multiplayer games with a human controlled France.

 

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Thanks Mr. Poole. That's my intention after I play the US...

 

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Originally posted by Commiepinko
If the AI doesn't defend its capital I can only assume its in a bad situation already and cant spare front line forces....and where are its human allies anyway?

Kinda like RL isnt' it

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Commiepinko
Excuse me??

Did I hear correctly?

The use of airborne troops is "cheapness"?

I'm sure the early victims of Germany thought the same thing about Blitzkrieg.

I object to ppl thinking in terms of house rules for solutions to such problems. The solution is.....defend Paris! It wouldn't be that hard to delay an unsupported airborne assault long enough to bring in heavy units to clean it up - at least its not that hard in World in Flames.

I know, I know, what about in a multiplayer game where the AI is France and doesn't defend Paris. If the AI doesn't defend its capital I can only assume its in a bad situation already and cant spare front line forces....and where are its human allies anyway?

My Aussie 2c
(which isnt even in circulation anymore)

What has that got to do with the fact there will always be exploits and people who have nothing better to do than abuse such faults and mess up teh game?

 

[Razgovory]

If you think you can make a better Vichy event using the EU2 engine by all means go ahead.

 

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Originally posted by John_Keats
The only place it would be a problem is in multiplayer. But in multiplayer usually you play with friends or people who you can deal with and place house rules against general cheapness.

Well, a human French player would be well aware of the event and could actually exploit it himself by holding Paris at all costs. Like has been discussed, I don't believe this is an issue in the game.

Besides, the French should surrender at the first opportunity. They have been criticized for the last 60 years for being a nation of pushover panzies.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by temetgnoste
Well, a human French player would be well aware of the event and could actually exploit it himself by holding Paris at all costs. Like has been discussed, I don't believe this is an issue in the game.

Besides, the French should surrender at the first opportunity. They have been criticized for the last 60 years for being a nation of pushover panzies.

And unfairly so, so stop it at last on here, it's not funny

 

[John Poole]

Originally posted by BiB
And unfairly so, so stop it at last on here, it's not funny

Wahoo! *cheers BiB on*

Yes 60 years of scholarship on the battle of France has failed miserably in educating the masses on the facts. Oh well since when have you needed facts to have national stereotypes?

 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Vichy Event

Originally posted by Baudolino
Did I ro did I not say within the last half century? Now did they or did they not enter Paris during the Franco-Prussian war? If they didn't, then I apologize, but that's hardly grounds for belligerence, now is it?

half a century is 50 years or less

the Franco-Prussian war was in 1870, that's 70 years before WW2: more than half a century.

 

[Jon Shafer]

I think I'm going to modify the event to include most of NE France in addition to Paris... sneaking one unit in will be too easy.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Trip
I think I'm going to modify the event to include most of NE France in addition to Paris... sneaking one unit in will be too easy.

Then don't do it. The ai doesn't, the event works. Changing those conditions will cause more unwanted side-effects than the odd player exploit (and a player abusing that exploit will just use another one if u fix this one)

 

[Jon Shafer]

Yes, but what if I want to create Vichy France eventually, find myself in Paris, while the French still have a chance? If I set the trigger to multiple provinces, at least then I can have some control over when the event takes place.

You're right, I don't have to drop 5 parachute divisions outside of Paris to 'cheat' every game, but there are still circumstances when I want Vichy, but not before the time may be right.

Besides, I'm not forcing the new event on anyone else, am I? I'm just making a bit of a safeguard against an accidental or unwanted premature Vichy.