Viabilty of CL only strike forces

[forumman30492]

Intro: I got a idea about CL only fleets. Since capital ship rely on screening efficiency to not get hit by torpedoes, I taught, if I kill all the screens fast enough I can just kill the capitals quickly.
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Situation: ROM vs SOV in Black Sea, no admiral, no spotting buff (2 spotting CL on both sides).
Designs: CL (max medium battery and one torpedo tube), BB (max heavy battery), all 1936 tech.

Spoiler: Designs

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Battles: There will be two battles here. One is a pure CL vs CL+BB. The other is a pure CL vs CL+BB+CV. Same converted IC cost on all comps. Ignore that their might be more CL in the screen shots. It's the scout CL joining in even they are set to "do not engage". They don't really affect the result. Also I forgot some screen shots but they are as you expect.
Fleets comps: 14CL vs 8CL+2BB.

Spoiler: Result

Fleets comps: 18CL vs 8CL+2BB+2CV(max naval bomber).

Spoiler: Result

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Discussion: It works as expected. It works best when the CL fleet is set to "no retreat". As you can see it is a clear win for the pure CL fleet. The CV fleet fares better as the naval bombers do some good work but still it is a loss. This pure CL fleet has a number of advantages on top of wining. Streamlined research, no chromium required and most of all easier repair. Since you have more ship that get damaged instead of a few large ship you repair your fleet much faster. I'm not sure if I'm missing something. Your toughs?

 

[Kryndude]

Are battles unaffected by RNG in HOI4? AFAIK there's RNG in dice rolls and target selection but when I do land battle tests the results are always exactly the same, and I assume it'll be the case with navy as well. Maybe it's predetermined per save file?

 

[forumman30492]

Are battles unaffected by RNG in HOI4? AFAIK there's RNG in dice rolls and target selection but when I do land battle tests the results are always exactly the same, and I assume it'll be the case with navy as well. Maybe it's predetermined per save file?

Well yes, but since battles last a lot of in game hours and calculations are done every hour the RNG is averaged out. I think. Maybe.

 

[Kryndude]

Well yes, but since battles last a lot of in game hours and calculations are done every hour the RNG is averaged out. I think. Maybe.

Yes, I get that, but it doesn't explain how the result is always identical to the last digit. I'm not sure if this is the case with naval battles, but if so you'll have to create at least a few more save files if you want reliable numbers. But then one is still something and CL only fleet does look promising. I wonder how Light Attack CA + cheap meatshield DDs would do against that.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

designs

Any reason you did not bother with secondaries? Or given cruisers only tier I armour (while almost everything is tier II)?

While more of a "personal preference", making battleship with 3/3 configuration (to upgrade for dual-purpose later on) would make them both cheaper and viable for such engagements (also, handy on the offchance you'll get to fight off some planes).

 

[Xiziz]

I think the BB would fare better if they were 2 heavy batteries and four secondaries(my designs usually have three plus a airplane catapult). Heavy guns slow the ship down needlessly increasing torpedo hit chance and the secondaries greatly help thin out enemy screens, should be cheaper with secondaries too.

CL might be better off with armour 2, a secondary and maybe replacing one of the batteries with another torpedo. Might also be better to ditch armour and use speed to evade(probably need to thin out light batteries then)

Radar2 and up also has attack bonuses that any player designed and built before the war bb most likely would have.

Going into capital ships the damage control techs are also a very good investment if you want to keep your ships. Would be fun to see the results with these three techs researched compared to not.

 

[forumman30492]

That was the result:
View attachment 578270
I had 2 Spotting CL on do not engage, that's why its 8 CL on soviet side.
IC wise I could bring another 10 DD's to the field on the soviet Side. 121264 CL only NIC vs 108922 NIC in my fleet

Wow. Not even one DD killed? How did the battle look mid fight? Can you try again with "no retreat" on? I got much better results if I told my CL to fight to the death. I guess the more important question for me, beacuse I don' really understand, is why did the CL fleet lose?

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Radar2 and up also has attack bonuses that any player designed and built before the war bb most likely would have.

Only tier III and IV modules do that, and those are '40 and '42 techs, unlike tier II stuff that is only '36.

 

[kettyo]

@porta80 Can you please check who does the kills?

 

[Kryndude]

@porta80 Could you do a test with barebone DDs (hull1, light battery 1, best engine) and LA CAs (medium battery 1, light cruiser battery 2 x 3, best engine, best fire control, no armor, no AA)? It's said to be the meta so I'm curious to see how it performs.

 

[porta80]

Sry guys made a mistake, he probably is right.

 

[forumman30492]

Sry guys made a mistake, he probably is right.

What kind of mistake? What happened in that battle?

 

[balmung60]

As a fun exercise, try it with only guns and no torpedoes on the CLs. It won't do quite as well against capital ships, but it does far better than it has any right to.

 

[KDEstroy]

Your BB design is pretty horrible. No one would build battleships like that in real life or in a Hoi4 game. I would have put 2 or 3 secondary guns on the battleships, and any more than 2 heavy battery modules for a battleship is excessive in the vast majority of battles.

 

[balmung60]

Your BB design is pretty horrible. No one would build battleships like that in real life or in a Hoi4 game. I would have put 2 or 3 secondary guns on the battleships, and any more than 2 heavy battery modules for a battleship is excessive in the vast majority of battles.

It bears some mention with respect to reasonable armament that both Richelieu and Vittorio Veneto start with two main batteries, meaning two heavy batteries is intended to represent any common 8 or 9 gun layout.

 

[CrackingShow]

If you give the cruisers armor level 2 the BB fleet wins because the LCs can't pierce each others armour, giving the BBs more time to fire.

 

[Happy Trigger]

I'm not sure if I'm missing something. Your toughs?

You forgot about the CAs. Try to change the BBs for CAs and redo the test. You might get surprised.

 

[LiberiusX]

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