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Also to note that Carthage was taken by Swedes as well (year 439).....

There was a tribe called "vandals" in southern of Sweden that went for a long journey....

An article in Svenska Dagbladets website at www.svd.se, unfortunately all in Swedish...

Here comes the article:

I Värnamo ges vandaler upprättelse
Den historiska folkgruppen vandalerna var inga vandaler, utan tvärtom ett högt civiliserat och kulturellt framstående släkte.

Värnamo, SvD
Dessutom kom de från Småland och återvände också efter sina framgångsrika expeditioner till Rom och Karthago senare dit, och många av deras goda egenskaper går igen hos dagens smålänningar - flit, arbetsvilja och initiativkraft. Det hävdar museinestorn Pontus Hultén, som satt sig i sinnet att återupprätta vandalernas heder efter århundraden av vanära.
I det syftet, och utan tvivel med hjälp av sitt goda namn i konstvärlden, har Hultén samlat ihop antika och medeltida konstföremål med anknytning till vandalerna från de främsta museerna över hela Europa till en unik utställning i sommar (garanterat den första i sitt slag) på Smålands konstarkiv i Värnamo.
Bland de muséer som bidragit finns bl a British Museum, Bibliothèque Nationale de France, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana och Musée Nationale des Antiquités i Alger. Föremålen ska visa på vandalernas högt utvecklade kultursinne.

Inledningen av vandalernas historia är relativt väl känd. Vid tiden strax efter Kristi födelse lämnar de sina hemtrakter i södra Sverige (att de väl kan ha kommit från trakten från Värnamo är en av de många hypoteser Pontus Hultén och hans hustru, den tyska historikern Marie-Louise von Plessen, lägger fram halvt på allvar, halvt på skämt) och beger sig söderut.
Efter en lång färd med många avstickare åt öster och väster tar de sig ner via Spanien till Afrika och intar år 439 Karthago, som dittills behärskats av det västromerska riket. Nu inleds en 100 år lång glansperiod då vandalerna behärskar stora delar av västra Medelhavet, men år 533 besegras de i grunden av den östromerske kejsaren Justinianus, och därefter försvinner de mer eller mindre från historien.
Kvar är bara termen "vandalism". Det är som bekant segrarna som skriver historien, och bakom smutskastandet av vandalerna ligger en religionsstrid, menar Hultén. Vandalerna var arianer, d v s trodde att Sonen var skapad av Fadern och inte ett med honom, medan romarna var katoliker. Detta, tillsammans med insatserna av bl a den romerske historikern Victor de Vita, har bidragit till att vandalerna fått vänta länge på sin upprättelse.

I denna sin ansträngning har paret Hultén/von Plassen särskilt riktat in sig på tiden i "diasporan", d v s efter det att de lämnat Afrika. För att kort summera deras hypoteser återvände vandalerna till Sverige, bland annat till Vendel i Uppland, och lärde bland annat upp vikingarna i sjöfararkonst. Många blev emellertid kvar i Europa, och det i Tyskland boende vendiska folkslag Ingmar Karlsson skrev om helt nyligen (SvD 22/4) och som är "Vende" i den gamla svenska konungatiteln är enligt dessa teorier också de ättlingar till vandalerna. Dessutom grundade de bl a staden Venedig.
I fullständighetens namn skall understrykas att hypoteserna är just sådana och inte några påståenden om absolut sanning - till det är den befintliga informationen för knapphändig. Men enligt Hultén är dessa hypoteser om vandalerna minst lika troliga som de hittills utbredda, och betydligt mer renhåriga gentemot denna missaktade folkgrupp.
Dessutom är det väl ett av de ting forskningen behöver, djärva hypoteser?

Hur väcktes då Pontus Hulténs intresse för vandalerna?
Jo, det började med att han blev involverad i inrättandet av det nya stora museum för modern konst och formgivning som skall börja byggas utanför Värnamo nästa år, med invigning 2004.
- Då kom jag på namnet Vandalorum, berättar Hultén. Sedan undrade folk varför det skulle vara just det namnet, och då var jag ju tvungen att komma på en förklaring, så då tänkte jag "Vandalorum... vandaler..." och så började jag och Marie-Louise forska i vandalernas historia.

Glimten i Pontus Hulténs ögon antyder att det kanske inte gick till exakt på det sättet. Hur som helst är teorin spännande (Hultén väntar fortfarande på svenska fackhistorikers utlåtanden i frågan) och föremålen fascinerande vackra.
Hultén hoppas att utställningen ska kunna gå ut på turné efter att den upphört i Värnamo den 26 augusti, men den som har vägarna förbi Småland i sommar får absolut inte missa vandalerna. Skulle det ändå ske finns utställningen och teorierna samlade i en mycket vacker bok, "Den sanna historien om vandalerna", som kan beställas för 340 kronor från Smålands konstarkiv på telefon 0370-148 00.


In short. They come from southern of Sweden and went on a long journey to North Africa via Spain and took Carthage in 439 and was a strong power in the Meditiranian for a 100 years when they was beaten by the East Romans. They then moved on and founded Venice and in several places in Germany they still remains. The main tribe finally return back to Sweden and the Swedish Vikings learned seaman ship from them..... Also to note is that a lot of this is a theory.. ;)
 

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Lies! All lies!

Nothing but Swedish propaganda.

Notice how the article's convienently written in Swedish? That way no one who speaks a normal language would understand.


:)
 

Agelastus

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First, the Vandals. Since they were historically linked as a related people to the Goths, and as historians are coming to associate a Baltic (possibly Scandinavian) origin for the Goths, it's not too unreasonable to suggest the Vandals came from the region. Given their ready adaptation to the sea (rare for the barbarian tribes that assaulted the empire in this period) it is possible to see them as the first seafarers in Scandinavia's viking tradition. They certainly took (Roman)Carthage.

Secondly, Venice. The first recorded inhabitants of the marshy islands that became Venice are refugees from the sack of Aquileia by the Huns in the fifth century, but the main influx occurred following the Lombard conquest of Northern Italy in the late sixth century AD. The rest, as they say is history. But not Vandal history!

Thirdly, I don't speak Swedish. Translation please, if this is to turn into a long running discussion.
 

unmerged(703)

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Well....

Originally posted by Agelastus
Thirdly, I don't speak Swedish. Translation please, if this is to turn into a long running discussion.

Strange you don't speak Swedish.... Even small kids in Sweden does...:D

This is a interesting subject, but I am not a historian and I have no clue what so ever what in this subject.

I'll be happy to translate it in full so I can hear some opinions...

Here we go:

In Värnamo (small city in southern Sweden) the vandals is given a clearence of their name.
The historical tribe the vandals was no vandals, but a high civilized and a culturally advanced tribe.

Värnamo, SvD (name of the newspaper).

They came from Småland (a province in Sweden known for it's entrepreneurship) and returned after their succesful expiditions to Rome and Carthage to the same place, and with them they brought many of the good traditions that you can find with the people from Småland, like will to work hard and initiative. This says the museum expert Mr Pontus Hulten who have decided to clean the name of the vandals after humdreds of years of dishonor.
To do so, and with no doubt helped by his good name in the art world, he has collected antics and medivial art with connection to the vandals from the greatest Museums of Europe to a unique exhibit this summer (garantied the first of its kind) in Smålands art archive in Värnamo.
Among the contributing museums you find British Museum, Bibliothèque Nationale de France, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana and Musée Nationale des Antiquités in Alger. The artaffects will show the high standards of the vandals cultural mind.

The beginning of the vandals history are well known. At the time just after birth of Christ, they leave their home in Southern of Sweden (that they come from Värnamo is one of the many theories that Pontus Hultén and his wife, the German historian Marie-Louise von Plessen, puts forward half serious and half as a joke ) and leave for South.
After a long trip with many side tracks at East and West they comes to Africa via Spain and conquer Carthage year 439, which has been rules by the West Roman Empire. They rule Carthage for 100 years and is a large power in the west Meditiranian Sea. Year 533 they are defeated by the East Roman Emperor Justinianus and more or less dissappear from the history.
Left is only the term "vandalism". As we all know the history is always written by the victor and behind the dirty talk about vandlas lays a religious confrontation argues Hultén. The vandals was "arians" (?), they believed that the Son was created by the Father and was not one with him, while the Romans was Catholics.
This, together with the Roman historian Victor de Vita, has resulted in the long wait for a recognition of the Vandals.

In their efforts the couple Hultén/von Plassen have especially lokked at the time in "diasporan", menaing the time when the vandals left Afrika. To short summarize their theories, the vandals returned to Sweden, among others, to Vendel i Uppland, and tought the vikings in Sea fearing. Many was still in Europe and the in Germany living "vendian" (?) people which Ingemar Karlsson wrote about in (SvD 22/4) and which is "Vende" in old Swedish king title are also related to the vandals. They also founded Venice.
In all honesty is should be said that this is theories and these claims can not be seen as the full truth, since the available information is very limited. But according to Hultén these theories are just as possible as the one currently accepted. They are also more fair towards the vandals which have been looked down on all times.
Also, don't science need some daring theories ?

How was Pontus Hulténs interest for the vandlas invoked?
It started when he was involved in the creation of a new muesum for modern art which is to be build outside Värnamo beginning next year and opened in 2004.
- I suggested the name Vandalorum, tells Hultén. Then people started to wonder what I got the name from and I was forced to come with an explanation, so I was thinking vandals Vandalorum so I started to research the vandals history together with my wife.

By the look int the eays on Pontus Hulténs we suspect it did not happen that way. Never the less the theory is (Hultén is still waiting for Swedish historians opinions) and the art affects are incredible beautiful.
Hultén hope that the exhibit will go for a turney after is has finished in Värnamo on august 26, but if you have your ways by Småland this summar don't miss the vandals. If you miss the exhibit you can also order a nice book called "Den sanna historien om vandalerna" (the true story about the vandals), which can be ordered for SEK 340 from Smålands art archive telp 0370-148 00 (Sweden).

Not the best translation, but gives you a better picture, I hope.....
:rolleyes:
 

unmerged(234)

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Hmm, I thinks this sound like Olof Rudbecks and the attempts during the heigh of the Swedish Empire to try that Seden was, Atalntis, the orgianl home of humankind and that more or less evrything of any importance in some way originated in Sweden. I am in other words a bit hesitant to this "facts". ;)
 

unmerged(4227)

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VENICE WAS NOT FOUNDED BY SWEDES ! ! !

this city was founded by the refugees from the sacked Aquilea(don't know the true spelling)
So it was founded by Romans, who were fleeing from the Vandals.

The city's name came from the latin ......... (i'll try to check, because i don't remember), which means "I also came here"....to the swamps near Aquilea, to save me and my family from the barbarians.

If anyone know how it is in latin ("I also came here"), please, sent a reply.
 

unmerged(964)

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Ahh the good old days , we have a pretty good record when it comes to buring europe .
Maybe its time again to sail out for some plunder , I have a boat so I just need some hardy fellows who likes to tear down bridges in london, arson cities and pillage churches.

And the goths had their origin from scandinavia , the baltic were by that time populated by finnish tribes and later by slavs.
 

unmerged(4913)

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Nor just swedes

In these old days Vikings and Romans, there were no swedes, only Scandinavians (Denmark,Sweden and Norway). And as everybody knows The vikings where the greatest civilisation in pre jesus days. Just think about the discovery of America, The fights against the romans, the trade with the Arabs, The trade with Russian tribes (Russian is the old call name for vikings, due to there parties, in scandinavian RUS=drunk) Also there have been found evidence that a large part of the roman nobels where Nordic fighters.
 

PatMaster

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Re: Nor just swedes

Originally posted by vegger
RUS=drunk

Yes but thats not why its called Russia

The thing was that there was some heavy anarchy in russia in the old days so they went to look for a chief in an other country. So they set sail across the baltic sea and convinced a chief from the area of 'Roslagen' in northern Svealand to move to Russia.
Ok, here it comes some training in the Swedish language:
Roslagen means more or less 'Law of the Ros', so dont care about the second syllable, it just sayes that in that area, the law is 'Rosian'.
The 'Roslaw'.
Thats where they think the name comes from.

But, at the other hand, thats maybe why they called it Roslagen?
The 'Drunklaw' :D

I think that Tsarfamily stayed on the Russian throne until the great disorder? Does any Russian here knows more exactly?
 

unmerged(3236)

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Venice was founded because of the swedes

Originally posted by Mithrilboy
VENICE WAS NOT FOUNDED BY SWEDES ! ! !

this city was founded by the refugees from the sacked Aquilea(don't know the true spelling)
So it was founded by Romans, who were fleeing from the Vandals.

Venice was not bulit by the Vandals but still because of them ;)
 

unmerged(234)

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Re: Re: Nor just swedes

Originally posted by PatMaster
I think that Tsarfamily stayed on the Russian throne until the great disorder? Does any Russian here knows more exactly?
The Rurik dynasti in some form was on the Russian throne until the great disorder after it there where Romanovs siting on it.
 

The Danish King

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If I remember correctly, southen Sweden would be Skåne, Halland and Bleking, that was part of the danish kingdom, so Venice would be founded by Danes and not Swedes. :D
 

unmerged(234)

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Originally posted by The Danish King
If I remember correctly, southen Sweden would be Skåne, Halland and Bleking, that was part of the danish kingdom, so Venice would be founded by Danes and not Swedes. :D
The (mostly unsubstanciated) claim is taht they came from Småland (also considered part of southern Sweden), and that would make them swedish :)