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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Ricardo Rolo

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Well, if you could had taken the Italian provinces of UK it would had been better, but it is not a bad peace at all, especially considering the colonies you grabbed ( btw have you captured Cape Verde ? Can't see it in the final maps )

Bohemia getting stronger is only good news to you. If they can take the HRE crown out of Austria even better ;) BTW how is the succession of the HRE ?

Your move on England was gutsy, but in the end it was quite hard to achieve. Now if you had a pre-placed stack in Scotland ( or even in Cornwall or Wales if they existed at the time ) when the war started, things would have been different ( *hint* ). Anyway, now with a big Atlantic coast to defend, you will probably need to worry more with England/GB, since I'm not seeing this as the last war you will have with them ...
 

diegoami

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Hello everybody, thank you for the feedback.

a bold move on the side of Bohemia - they are lucky to have so generous allies...

heh - and a nice move on your side in Africa. though I personally would not consider those provinces worthwhile at all.

also I tried the same thing (ie. sneaking into armies) in England as Portugal yesterday but I failed too - even I had bigger fleet (initially...) I kept losing against the better admiral of England. I peaced out before my army could had been routed.
Well, almost as generous as any AI ally actually, but probably more competent

Good to know I am not the only one to have the idea to invade Britain..

I guess those provinces in Africa are not the greatest, but Venice doesn't that much of a choice, since she will come inevitably late to the colonization race...

England always gives me trouble at the start. But, if you get the upper hand over their navy you've got them...you can starve them out of their island provinces...gain money and points...in order to be in position to take provinces in war. Otherwise, if you don't put their capital in trouble it's very hard to get anything from them...anyone's capital is the key.

Great reporting.
Thank you. Regrettably I don't have as many ports as they have and it will take some time until I can beat them on the sea, I am afraid...

Well, if you could had taken the Italian provinces of UK it would had been better, but it is not a bad peace at all, especially considering the colonies you grabbed ( btw have you captured Cape Verde ? Can't see it in the final maps )

Bohemia getting stronger is only good news to you. If they can take the HRE crown out of Austria even better ;) BTW how is the succession of the HRE ?

Your move on England was gutsy, but in the end it was quite hard to achieve. Now if you had a pre-placed stack in Scotland ( or even in Cornwall or Wales if they existed at the time ) when the war started, things would have been different ( *hint* ). Anyway, now with a big Atlantic coast to defend, you will probably need to worry more with England/GB, since I'm not seeing this as the last war you will have with them ...
Regrettably, having being called to arms, the Italian provinces would have cost me too much infamy and my trade would have suffered... Cape Verde was developed and could not be captured.

I think Bohemia at this time has a good chance to become the Emperor, but I am not sure.

Regrettably, pre-placing a stack in Scotland in this war was not an option, as my troops were mostly in Central Europe when I was called to arms. I think I read that you can lure the English fleet around with a barque, not sure if that will work now and it feels kind of gamey. The English seem to smell where your fleet is...
I find it very frustrating that you cannot coordinate with your allies' fleets.

the AI however has a bad habit of splitting it's navy into ridiculous fragments (~10 ships) which usually means it's doomed.
That has not been my experience in this war, the English had just two stacks. I guess that happens when they have colonies all over the world and have to patrol sealanes for pirates.
 

vasziljevics

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That has not been my experience in this war, the English had just two stacks. I guess that happens when they have colonies all over the world and have to patrol sealanes for pirates.
indeed as I recall that used to happen later in the game.
 

diegoami

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1511-1517 : Second War with Austria

After the long war with England, Venice had to take care of many things.

First, the mission was accomplished and Ferrara was annexed. This was a map of Europe after the annexation, in 1512.



Meanwhile, the king of Bohemia had been elected the new Emperor. I don't know if it was because in Austria there was a Regency Council. While this meant that Bohemia would be stronger, it didn't make reentering the HRE any easier. After wasting some magistrates, I remembered that the Emperor won't ever let you in if you are bigger than him. That ship had sailed.



At last Bohemia's army could match Austria's army.



We had had some problems with the natives in Africa and lost a colony to natives, therefore we dispatched an army there to remove the savages. We also removed settlement policy from the Balkans to send colonists to Africa - the only success so far there had been turning Hum into Lombard.

Our income was a solid second place. The Ottomans had the greatest income. By the way, they had started a Jihad against the weakened England.

We got a core on Chur, Switzerland, but claiming it would be problematic as they were allies and good allies are hard to find.

But what about the next mission ? We had to conquer Tirol, in Austria. But we couldn't just declare war on them, because in that case the Emperor, Bohemia, would have to defend them. Austria was also allied with Hungary, Brandenburg and the Palatinate. Therefore we had to wait for an opportunity.

The opportunity presented itself pretty soon. In 1514, Bohemia started the 2nd reconquest of Ratibor, and that prompted an intervention by Austria. The Emperor called us to arms, and therefore we found ourselves at war with our nemesis again.

We would have to make a separate peace with Austria, though, if we wanted to reach our goal. But that had to happen only when we were sure that the war could be won without Venice.



At first, the war looked deceivingly easy for Venice. In fact, the Merchant Republic could march unhindered into Austria and start seiging all of the Austrian provinces.



But that was because most of the action was happening on the other fronts.



And the most important issue was dealing with the big Austria stack in Bohemia.



By 1515, we began surrounding Austria's stack in Bohemia. The sieges were running smoothly, as our troops were equipped with culverines. Infantry was now "Condotta Infantry", which is better when defending and may be somewhat inferior to Landesknechte, but had to be picked for Role-Playing.

Regrettably, it was Modena who came first to Wien and sieged it successfully.



At last, we engaged the Austrian stack in Bohemia, hoping that superior numbers would be enough to win. But I need to work on my tactics. My stack ends up being led by the crappy general, which is dumb as I have a 4/3 doge.

I have several crappy generals, which I created before choosing "The fleet is our wooden wall!" when I was hit by the "Land Scorned Tradition" event.



The battle was pretty close and we would probably end up losing if the Bohemia weren't coming to help us...



who luckily arrive in time to turn the battle.



Some you win, some you lose. By November 1515, our war score with Austria was 28% and we had actually managed to drive their war exhaustion pretty high. But we didn't seem to be able to kill that stack once and for all.



We followed that stack to Franken and got defeated again in a bloody battle. As I thought Bohemia and allies (including our vassals) could win on their own, I made peace with Austria. War score was enough to get either Tirol or Trent, but not both. I chose Tirol to fulfill my mission. Trent had been occupied in this war and therefore it won't uncore before 1565.

So, In 1516, our depleted stack was coming back from Franken while the war between Austria and Bohemia went on. We were now subsidizing both the Emperor and our vassals. We had a new doge, as Casanova had died in action. Our new doge was a decent 3/2 general.

The main consequence of our ineptitude was our depleted manpower - we were 50k short, although it will probably be less after disbanding mercenaries.



By 1517, the war between Bohemia and Austria was over. Bohemia was four provinces bigger (Neumark, Ratibor, Kalisz and Sandomierz) and has consolidated its status as emperor - it was now likely to be voted again. And was now solidly stronger than Austria.

Otherwise, it is worth noticing that the Ottomans had grabbed two provinces in Brittany and one in Irland. And Münster, the orange blob east of Burgundy, was ... blobbing.



Venice in 1517 was at war with the Aztec, having being called to arms by Aragon. We had the mission to build a level 2 fort in Bosnia. And the highest income in the world - without wartaxes. The new province of Tirol was very rich and giving us gold.



Of course, we had made sure that the countries we had defeated entered our Trade League. Because War is the extension of Commerce.



Regrettably, we had three loans, as the wars had been very expensive. But otherwise we could not complain about the economy. We were trading in Venezia, Thrace, Antwerpen, Liguria, Lisboa, Alexandria and Astrakhan...



... and trade was now 62% of our income.



 
Last edited:

vasziljevics

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I think Bohemia is 3 province larger now - given that they annexed Silesia as well.

that trade map looks chaotic as hell - but it will remain such until the trade leagues will be gone.
 

diegoami

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I think Bohemia is 3 province larger now - given that they annexed Silesia as well.

that trade map looks chaotic as hell - but it will remain such until the trade leagues will be gone.
You are right, actually even four. Sandomierz and Kalisz are also Bohemian now. I will fix it.

 
Last edited:

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That is a fantastic trade income, and good work putting Austria in their place. Interesting that the Ottoman's have grabbed a city in Ireland, with a bit of luck they will be dragged into a costly war over there, perhaps leaving an opening for you.
 

Ricardo Rolo

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It was extremely helpful having Bohemia as emperor and them getting a war with Austria, wasn't it ? ;) Too bad you couldn't get Trent and Tirol, but i assume that this will not be the last chance of hitting Austria out.

The Ottomans got themselves quite a pickle in grabbing a proving in the Eire and other in Brittany ( really ? couldn't they got the English south Italy instead ? *confused*). That can only lead to wars with France and the UK/England ... the latter is a blessing in disguise, but the former would most likely put yourself in a not as confy situation ...

And BTW isn't Bohemia getting too strong for confort ? ;)
 

diegoami

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That is a fantastic trade income, and good work putting Austria in their place. Interesting that the Ottoman's have grabbed a city in Ireland, with a bit of luck they will be dragged into a costly war over there, perhaps leaving an opening for you.
Thank you, NIs and decisions help trade a lot. I also recruited a 5-star advisor to improve compete chances.

Yeah I hope so. Well, the Berbery pirates did raid as far away as Iceland, so the OE taking a province in Ireland is not that far-fetched.

It was extremely helpful having Bohemia as emperor and them getting a war with Austria, wasn't it ? ;) Too bad you couldn't get Trent and Tirol, but i assume that this will not be the last chance of hitting Austria out.

The Ottomans got themselves quite a pickle in grabbing a proving in the Eire and other in Brittany ( really ? couldn't they got the English south Italy instead ? *confused*). That can only lead to wars with France and the UK/England ... the latter is a blessing in disguise, but the former would most likely put yourself in a not as confy situation ...

And BTW isn't Bohemia getting too strong for confort ? ;)
Yeah, I got lucky there. Bohemia declaring war on Austria was a godsend.

I guess they took the provinces who were easier to take, the English had troops in Italy. Well, I can't really choose my poison, but France, England and the OE fighting among them would probably be a good thing.

Bohemia is somewhat worrying, maybe I created a monster...
 

Range

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Great game. Just one question in regard to your major defeat. You chased Austria into Franklin. Before following after them did you wait until the next month before moving (for your troops to regain some strength)? How exhausted were your troops?
 

diegoami

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Great game. Just one question in regard to your major defeat. You chased Austria into Franklin. Before following after them did you wait until the next month before moving (for your troops to regain some strength)? How exhausted were your troops?
Thank you. I am not sure now, I think they were at full strength. But I had a defense malus, they have the better troops and I got a very bad roll. I was losing thousands of soldiers every round. I don't think I should ever attack the Austrians as they will always be at an advantage. I should keep connected decent-size stacks all around them and hope to lure them into attacking, reenforce and always keep stacks next to the battle, to guarantee a safe retreat. Have to kick the bad habits I got while playing on "normal". And of course they are land-based and have the military NIs, while I don't.
 
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Extracts from the Doge Michele Casanova' memoirs

The Doge Michele Casanova hadn't actually died. He had lost a leg and spent some months in Austrian prisony. He came back to Venice, but he didn't feel welcome there, since people were blaming him for the huge human losses in the war. Therefore, he retired to a monastery and wrote his memoirs. Here is an extract.



I will regret till the end of my life the way we fought the war against Austria. We shouldn't have attacked them in Bohemia, but we should have bidden our time. In the end, both we and our allies were worse off because of my imprudence.

If I could go back in time, to 1515, I would let the Austrians occupy Bohemia and place stacks in the nearby provinces.



Maybe we would have lured the Austrian stack to Moravia this way, while our Savoy ally could try and free Bohemia.



Meanwhile our Bohemian allies would have concentrated on putting some pressure on Poland and Hungary, while Styria would be seiging Brandenburg.



Even if we had lost the battle of Moravia, the Bohemians were bound to come and help us against Austria.





Even if we ended up losing the battles, we would still have a high war score, thanks to the occupied provinces.



We would have maybe lost another couple of battles, but we would have been still in control by March 1516.



By June 1516, Bohemia would have won other battles had peaced Poland, driving the war score to 44% and being ready to take on Austria.



It would be at that time that we could have gotten a very favourable peace deal from Austria, including Trent and Tirol.



And we wouldn't have needed to feel guilty, since Bohemia would have won the war anyway by 1519 and even gotten another province from Hungary. And we wouldn't have wasted that much manpower.



It would be great if I could go back in time and change history. But even if I could, I wouldn't, who knows how things might turn out later. Therefore, let this just be an exercise in imagination. But people, people from Venice, learn from the past and don't repeat the errors I made ! And I know you will get Trent eventually !

 
Last edited:

Ricardo Rolo

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And because of a nail, the kingdom was lost ;) That stack wipe you had in the "real" game timeline really didn't helped your warscore and your ability of actually warring, as this alternate play shows. Anyway, the war went well enough to be considered a win, just not the win you would had liked ...
 

diegoami

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And because of a nail, the kingdom was lost ;) That stack wipe you had in the "real" game timeline really didn't helped your warscore and your ability of actually warring, as this alternate play shows. Anyway, the war went well enough to be considered a win, just not the win you would had liked ...
You could say that. Even in Casanova's alternate history, I didn't manage to defeat the Austrian a single time, even if I was defending and I had the bigger armies. It looks like I will just have to avoid their stacks and outsiege them, and for that I will go defensive, I guess.
 

diegoami

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1517-1526 : the fist Aragonese Crusade against Granada


If we had declared war separately on the Aztec, as we should have done, we may have profited from the war too. Aragon got two provinces from the Aztecs and made them release Zapotec.

Meanhwile, in the new world, several European nations had began colonizing : England, France, Castille, Aragon, Portugal and Sweden. We were still out of range.

Venice had lost a couple of African provinces to the savages before removing them from the other provinces.



In June 1520, Aragon started a crusade against Granada and called us to arms. We could not refuse, therefore Venice ended up being at war with the Muslims in the Mediterranean. It was going to be a close affair, but the Christian coalition was probably superior at sea.



There was no way we could defend the Balkan provinces, considering also our low manpower. But the Ottomans didn't shy away from invading Italy as well.



...while a part of our fleet was patroling the Dardanelles. Later they would reunite with the ships stationed in the Atlantic.



The Ottomans had already a significant presence in the Balkans.



By August 1522, the Balkan provinces had been occupied by them.



Our depleted troops would not be able to challenge them. But at least we had kicked the Ottomans out of Italy, and we were receiving subsidies from our allies.



But the Christians, after several naval battles, had achieved naval superiority. The Ottoman fleet was cowering in Janina, observed by Venice's fleet, while a blockade had been laid on all of the Muslim Mediterranenan ports.



In the Western Mediterranean, Algeria was also being blockaded. A half-hearted invasion of Morocco had failed, but the Ottoman provinces in Western Europe were occupied. Granada had lost one province to Aragon.

Regrettably, France was now at war with Burgundy, Portugal and England, and could not fight the Ottomans.



The situation stayed pretty much the same until 1524, when at last Aragon signed a white peace with the Ottomans and then made Algiers release Tunisia. The Balkan provinces were then liberated. Venice had survived her first war with the Ottomans unscathed.

While the Ottoman army still seemed like an unstoppable juggernaut, Venice's fleet had proved to be fully capable to challenge the Ottomans at sea.



In July 1525, Venice was at war again. We had got the mission to conquer Osjek to get a core on it, which we had easily done.



This way, we had ended up being at war with Burgundy and Lorraine as well. Burgundy's army had invaded Switzerland and Savoy and might have become a threat to Italy as well.



But Burgundy was exhausted by the war with France and it was easy to get a white peace from them.

In fact, in December 1526, the war ended with Status Quo.



The Merchant Republic's income had dimished, mostly because the Ottomans, obviously, had kicked out our merchants. But it was still the second highest in the world.



Venice had a new mission : Reclaim Trent from the Austrians.

 
Last edited:

diegoami

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diegoami

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1527-1530 : Third war with Austria


We don't have to wait long for an opportunity to be at war with Austria. In fact, in May 1527, we get called to arms, this time from Aragon, to the war of "Austrian Aggression".



Aggression against whom ? Well, against Croatia. And why do we even care ? Well, Austria has become protestant, Croatia is catholic, Aragon is defender of the catholic faith, and we are allied with them. That, and we don't like Austria.

By the way, this is a good time to show Europe's religious map.



We wouldn't have Bohemia on our side this time, but we were confident we could now take on Austria and Hungary all the same. We had also a decent doge-general, Mario Moro.

Venetian troops left for Austria singing l'inno a san Marco. They knew it would be a difficult war and many would not come back home.



In July 1527, we had our first contact with the enemy in Kärnten.



We lost in Kärnten, but luckily we stopped the Austrians in Lienz. In October 1527, we were challenged in Steiermark, and reenforcements from Lienz were under way. Regrettably, we were using the wrong general again.



We won in Steiermark, and even managed a stack wipe in Linz. At last a war with Austria that goes the way we want to. The stacks that Austria and Hungary were stationing in Croatia were recalled. The second Austrian stack defeated us in Krain.



In February 1528, two battles were raging, in Istria and Sopron. It looked like we had a good chance to win both and then win the war decisively.



We defeated the Hungarian in Sopron, but the Austrian defeated us twice in Styria. Luckily, we had covered our retreat and managed to reorganize. The Austrians challenged us again in Steiermark in May 1528. But this time, we should have won, since we would outnumber them and were lead by the "good" general.



In fact, we defeated our enemy in Steiermark and they escaped to Wien. We had now a good opportunity to wipe that second stack as well. At the same time, our allies were being removed from Hungary by an Hungarian stack. Aragon was taking on... Holstein, at least that would drive the war score high.



By August 1528, it was all over. Austria's and Hungary's army had surrendered, and very few, isolated troops resisted.



It was now only a matter of occupying enough provinces to get a good war score and then make a separated peace in time. Our main goal was Trent. There was time for that, since the war was still "young".

By November 1529, our war score was at 27%, which was more than enough to get what we wanted : Trent.

Meanwhile, Lithuania had found a way to reach Hungary and Austria and was invading.



Venice made peace, and by February 1530 troops were back home. Trent was Venetian, while Austria now was overrun by Lithuanian troops. Our vassals were still at war.



Well, what about the next mission ? A nasty one, "Restore the Currency". It will take us some decades, I am afraid.




 
Last edited:

Marco Dandolo

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I like your "hounorable" house-rules. San Marco co ti!