Venice can be tricky as hell

[Viperswhip]

Okay, so in the demo,

1) do not ally with anyone,
2) send a relations expert to the Malmuks and Austria,

3) build carracks like crazy in Venezia (discounted price), build troops as possible (carracks first always, have one queued).

Your timeline is basically thus, Austria will go to war with Flanders, the Ottomans shouldn't declare war so long as you do not go to war (which you will have to do if you ally); at least they didn't on me the couple of times I tried this. Kind of try to watch the Flanders situation, as much as you can, if you get the sense Austria is soon to close out the war, call your diplomat back and then make an Alliance with Austria as soon as they make peace with Flanders because their next target is you. By this time depending on events you get, well, I've had around 21-22 military (3/2 in favour of infantry over cav) and 4-5 Carracks. It's not enough if the Ottos declare war on you, but you are close, so there is a small period when you are vulnerable because the Austrians won't really help very much against the Ottos. If enough time has elapsed you may be able to get the Mams on your side, I didn't really need them because I managed to blockade the straight in my one game before the Ottos could get their big armies across.

Basically you have to pull a page from the Byzantium box to start the game but you just have more money to pull it all off.

Anyway, that's my advice. In this short 50 year demo you kind of have to bend over for Austria.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

That is a good point, I actually went and looked up the "Annex Egypt" mission which is below:

annex_egypt = {
   
    type = country

	category = MIL
	ai_mission = yes
	
	target_provinces = {
		owned_by = MAM
	}
    allow = {
        tag = TUR
        is_subject = no
		is_neighbor_of = MAM
		MAM = {
			owns = 361
			NOT = { alliance_with = ROOT }
			NOT = { war_with = ROOT }
			NOT = { is_subject_of = ROOT }
		}
    }
    abort = {
        OR = {
            is_subject = yes
			any_target_province = {
				NOT = { owned_by = ROOT }
				NOT = { owned_by = MAM }
			}
        }
    }
    success = {
        NOT = { exists = MAM }
		all_target_province = {
			owned_by = ROOT
		}
    }
    chance = {
        factor = 1000
        modifier = {
           factor = 5
           owns = 151
        }		
        modifier = {
            factor = 2
            NOT = { has_opinion = { who = MAM value = 100 } }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 2
            NOT = { has_opinion = { who = MAM value = 0 } }
        }
    }
    immediate = {
		every_target_province = {
			add_claim = ROOT
		}
    }
    abort_effect = {
		every_target_province = {
			remove_claim = ROOT
		}
    }
    effect = {
		add_prestige = 10
		add_army_tradition = 30
    }
}

I'm not an expert on the paradox coding language but interestingly it seems not to trigger if the Mamluks don't own Cairo. Mind you it would be a tall order to annex all that land before the Ottomans get a border with the Mamluks but even then, the mission only appears to give claims on territory actually held by the Mamluks so perhaps Venetian Siani would be ok? (apart from having a land border with a vastly enlarged Ottoman Empire...)

Hmm, it seems the mission is cancelled if another country takes some provinces from the Mamlukes...

 

[Hakko]

Venice it's quite easy, i start fabricating a claim on ancona, they are allied with tuscany and siena, after i win the war i annex ancona and get tuscany as a vassal. Then i take ragusa. After i've cored everything i declare war to Naples and do a full annexation. At this point i go for the Papal state, or wait for a weakness of Austria to take some of the little provinces. I did this start 3 times, everytime the demo end when i'm very close to forming Italy t.t

 

[Pryderi]

Venice it's quite easy, i start fabricating a claim on ancona, they are allied with tuscany and siena, after i win the war i annex ancona and get tuscany as a vassal. Then i take ragusa. After i've cored everything i declare war to Naples and do a full annexation. At this point i go for the Papal state, or wait for a weakness of Austria to take some of the little provinces. I did this start 3 times, everytime the demo end when i'm very close to forming Italy t.t

Now try a few games where you go after the Ottos, it's a rogue-like of much fun

 

[Hakko]

Now try a few games where you go after the Ottos, it's a rogue-like of much fun

Yeah, my plan was forming italy and then crushing the Ottomans for the glory of Venice!
I'll do it tomorrow!

 

[unmerged(368182)]

Personally I wouldn't try and appease Austria or the Ottomans. I've found building a close alliance with Poland (which also will bring in Lithuania) a good counterbalance to both Austria and the ottomans. Besides as long as you don't become war exhausted or infamous too quickly both Austria and the Ottomans make enemies so quickly they'll not have time to focus on you, and you can join coalitions against them. In fact once I saw the Ottoman's fall into a peasant war so destructive I was able to attack with Poland and do major damage to them at a low cost.

 

[BaronMouths]

My first try as Venice had me trampled upon by Austria.

On my second try I focused on building up alliances so I could take on Austria, or at least make them think twice before attacking me. I managed to ally to England and Poland (in personal union with Lithuania) right off the bat, which gave me some room to breathe. My diplomatic goals were to ally with France and Bohemia (in personal union with Hungary). However, making alliances with those countries can be tricky since they start with their diplomatic relations capped. I sent diplomats there, alternating with claim fabrication in Ragusa and Ancona, which were rapidly conquered. Meanwhile boundary tensions generated cores for me in Görz and Lienz. Towards the last 5 years the game allows us to play I managed to make France and Bohemia-Hungary willing to ally, so I dropped my alliance with Poland-Lithuania (rival to Bohemia) and signed with Prague and Paris.

I was allied with England, France, Bohemia-Hungary. I fabricated another claim on Romagna, which was held by Ferrara (HRE member) and declared war. Austria came to help Ferrara. England (+Scotland), France (+vassals) and Bohemia-Hungary joined by my side. The Venetian Conquest of Romagna became a full-on counter-hegemonic war to trim the Austrian power in Europe. By the end of the war Austria had no manpower and no army left. I conquered Romagna and deprived Austria of its only Mediterranean access by also annexing Görz. France took Hainaut and Antwerpen, England took Ghent and Zeeland and Bohemia took the Ostmarch.

God is great.

 

[BaronMouths]

And on my third try the Ottomans got me.

 

[HorathDrak]

I found the key to winning is

1) to ally England (who will most of the time accept from day one, but are crappy allies in the long run), Switzerland and Bavaria. This will stop Austria and the OE for the first 1 or 2 years.

2) In the meanwhile, build galleys like crazy in ALL of your provinces, not just in venice (tempting because of the discount). Don't be afraid of taking out loans, you can consolidate your eonomy when you are save. Build galleys until you have about 40-50 of them and a good admiral commanding them.

3)rush to the second ideagroup and take naval ideas, which the OE starts with. Tech up to the third idea to get the moral boost and the forcelimit multiplier.

4) now feel free to kick ass: I fought OE, Spain and England at the same time, delivered them a severe beating with my galley fleet and won the wars. Ended the game with the largest navy (2 times that of England, the next country) and took Greece and the west Balkans from Ottomans:

 

[BaronMouths]

I found the key to winning is
1) to ally England (who will most of the time accept from day one, but are crappy allies in the long run), Switzerland and Bavaria. This will stop Austria and the OE for the first 1 or 2 years.
View attachment 87633

Won't Bavaria ditch you in favor of Austria if it comes to that?

 

[NapoleonComple]

This is just an idea but maybe sell Dalmatia to the Austrians? Then watch as the two nations duke it out and pounce on one of them at an opportune time.

 

[HorathDrak]

@ bthomas: Yeah, you are right, but they are only there as a shield/distraction against an early DoW from Austria/OE. Later on you don't need them anymore because you are untouchable on your island
Bavarian wussies never even joined my ottoman war... switzerland stayed faithful though and then dragged me into the war with savoy, england and spain (megalomaniacs ;-) )

 

[FredricBastiat]

Hmm, it seems the mission is cancelled if another country takes some provinces from the Mamlukes...

Yes, that happened to me when I was playing as Ottomans. You can still take the mission again as soon as it is canceled, however.

 

[BaronMouths]

@ bthomas: Yeah, you are right, but they are only there as a shield/distraction against an early DoW from Austria/OE. Later on you don't need them anymore because you are untouchable on your island
Bavarian wussies never even joined my ottoman war... switzerland stayed faithful though and then dragged me into the war with savoy, england and spain (megalomaniacs ;-) )

Bavaria usually starts with that mission to improve relations/royal marriage with Austria, so it's kinda difficult to set them apart. On the game I managed to ally with Bohemia-Hungary they proved very useful, and a much stronger shield against the Ottomans. They are a nice investiment of diplomatic capital, considering they are the biggest rivals to Austria inside the HRE at the beginning of the game.

 

[HorathDrak]

Bavaria usually starts with that mission to improve relations/royal marriage with Austria, so it's kinda difficult to set them apart. On the game I managed to ally with Bohemia-Hungary they proved very useful, and a much stronger shield against the Ottomans. They are a nice investiment of diplomatic capital, considering they are the biggest rivals to Austria inside the HRE at the beginning of the game.

Haven't tried Bohemia, could be a good idea though. Problem is, if you play a longer game as Venice, you will want to take that hungarian province (Lika) to max your tradepower in the venice node, so one will likely get in a conflict with them.

I think in the long run your natural ally as Venice would be France, because they are the main enemy of Austria once they finish integrating their vassals and play a role in european politics. sadly in the timeframe of the demo i could only once ally with them because they normally have too many diplomatic relations because of their vassals.

 

[BaronMouths]

Haven't tried Bohemia, could be a good idea though. Problem is, if you play a longer game as Venice, you will want to take that hungarian province (Lika) to max your tradepower in the venice node, so one will likely get in a conflict with them.

I think in the long run your natural ally as Venice would be France, because they are the main enemy of Austria once they finish integrating their vassals and play a role in european politics. sadly in the timeframe of the demo i could only once ally with them because they normally have too many diplomatic relations because of their vassals.

Yes, I agree France is the optimal ally to keep Austria in check.
I will also try to ally with the Mamluks to counter the Ottomans when the game releases, but I'm unsure how that will go.

 

[Felicity]

Albania.