Any info about the galleys? It seems that, due the national bonus, galleys must be the backbone of the fleet.
Venice as a naval power
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Galleys are the mainstay of your inland sea navy - They aren't worth much in the open sea though.
- Dec 14, 1999
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But is it enough to beat heavy ships in 1v1 combat? In EUIII this wasn't the case, but it really should be.
Is this modifier effectively expressed in the game via the military advisor tab or the naval combat screen? I'd like to know when to start dumping my huge galley fleet for big ships as Aragon.
Since galleys are MUCH cheaper then heavy ships, then the tactics should be swarming the poor lone heavy ships with your zerg fleet though.
2 Venice national ideas are galley oriented, it will be interesting if fully powerd galleys can compete with big ships later in the game
Considering both Russia and Ottomans, in black sea, focused on shis of the line at the end of the game, and that Sweden did that on baltic, it seems like at arround 1700s big ships focused navy wouild beat galleys handilly even in inland seas at that time.
Also the fact that Venice opted for bigger artillery-supported galleys is kind of proving the poing once again.
The fire and shock modifiers are separate for every ship type. The increase galleys get will be much smaller than that of heavy ships or light ships. That way the decline of galleys is properly modeled. Whether or not a galley is able to defeat an early carrack in 1 on 1 combat early in the game I can not say.
What could also be problematic is the balance of costs. I know the maintainance cost goes up with tech but I think it does so equally for every type of ship. Also AFAIK you pay the same maintainance for a late ship of the line as for an early carrack which doesn't make sense. Maintainance cost should be a model specific thing (A galley doesn't get more expensive to maintain just because you can now build better ships). That way you can model properly how Venice can support 200 galleys in early/mid game while Spain can support only 30 heavy ships in late game. Forcelimits are a problem, too. Imho the sole constraint to the size of your fleet should be your ability (or inability) to support it.
To support my point I going to quote the number of ships involved in large naval battles of their time. At the battle of Lepanto in 1571, 212 Holy League ships faced 251 Ottoman ships. Almost all of those ships were galleys. At Cape Trafalgar in 1805, the British fleet containing 33 ships faced the Franco-Spanish fleet of 41 ships. Most of those were ships of the line or frigates.
Edit: Perhaps I should wait how it all works out in the game before I start complaining.
No Sweden focused on lighter ships at the end of the 18th century, at the battle of Svensksund the Russians and Swedes main fleets were much smaller vessels.
It seems to me that gallery must cost 1/2 naval force limit when other ships cost 1 point !
Hell no. In Lepanto not a single big ship was sunk by a galley, just to give one famous example.
- Dec 14, 1999
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not really.. even until the napoleonic wars both sweden and russia maintained heavy galley fleets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Svensksund
That is true. But it does tend to distort the game, the way it currently works. While the Baltic powers did maintain galley fleets, the Med powers did not. As it is, loading the Nap War start will give a distorted naval situation in the Med. (And the Arch Frigate was a Baltic-only type, and should be so handled. I managed this in RM, so it is not impossible.)
In general, gibbel makes a good point about the way force limits don't work because they treat all types the same. However it's worth noting that the size of fleets went DOWN during the age of the SOL. In the Dutch Wars, 100 ship fleets (with no galleys) were used. But they became too big to be controlled, and also too expensive. The game never reflected this, as the sole criterion was number of guns.
EU has always been a bit funny when it comes to unit types. In my currently EU3 Burgundy game I'm whopping some Spanish arse with Carolean infantry for instance. Doesn't bother me that much though, but I'd love it if they improved on the military part of the game, adding more weight to and giving more freedom when it comes to unit composition and such. Different force limits for different unit types is one thing, so that your entire army doesn't entirely consist of the elite units most famous for the era.
That's because there were no big ships at Lepanto.
My point was that bigger ships could beat a galley one on one, regardless if it´s a galeass or ship of the line. Ten galleys, THEN it´s another matter.
As to the battle Johan posted, the russians actually had MORE galleys, which makes me wonder the defeat was to tactical blunder and NOT galley superiority per se.