Vassals not functioning correctly?

[BlaneckW]

After they're fixed, if gameplay balance favors evil, you could also make vassals more cooperative with good aligned players. Of course this is already the case to some extent but you could consider increasing it to some extent, maybe depending on threat level. If evil is weak you don't care.

 

[stigmund77]

If we're thinking of ways to improve it in one of the dlc's or expansions, maybe having good alignment could increase the range they attack? Or a society trait in one of the expansions could expand the range vassals attack and increases their raiding party size. Theres alot of options on the table to expand this gameplay.

 

[The Founder]

If we're thinking of ways to improve it in one of the dlc's or expansions, maybe having good alignment could increase the range they attack? Or a society trait in one of the expansions could expand the range vassals attack and increases their raiding party size. Theres alot of options on the table to expand this gameplay.

Probably a good idea to replace that advanced trait that gives "-100% Vassal Trade Cost" with it.
I am all for strong bonuses, but making the trade cost 0 seems bad.

 

[Big J Money]

This is one of the most valuable posts I've seen in a long time, thanks everyone for this discussion.

I want to make sure I understand something. So, World Threat is a setting to set the aggression level of non-player entities, is that correct? So this affects Free Cities and monster dens.

But this thing is.... Vassals are not non-player entities. Free Cities are, but once they become vassals, they are now a part of (one of) the player's empires. Whether this is one of the AI opponents or a human player, either way they are no longer neutral and belonging to 'the world'.

Is it possible Vassals could just be removed from the world threat setting altogether? It seems that once a player has a vassal, they should have full war capabilities, and once the AI has a vassal, it should use the AI difficulty to determine their threat. If the AI is set to Easy, then all of their vassals should be passive, it seems.

 

[stigmund77]

This is one of the most valuable posts I've seen in a long time, thanks everyone for this discussion.

I want to make sure I understand something. So, World Threat is a setting to set the aggression level of non-player entities, is that correct? So this affects Free Cities and monster dens.

But this thing is.... Vassals are not non-player entities. Free Cities are, but once they become vassals, they are now a part of (one of) the player's empires. Whether this is one of the AI opponents or a human player, either way they are no longer neutral and belonging to 'the world'.

Is it possible Vassals could just be removed from the world threat setting altogether? It seems that once a player has a vassal, they should have full war capabilities, and once the AI has a vassal, it should use the AI difficulty to determine their threat. If the AI is set to Easy, then all of their vassals should be passive, it seems.

I think it would be a good idea to unify how vassals behave once they are owned by a human or AI player, this would prevent a lot of confusion on how they function, i keep seeing posts pop up on the steam forums asking why vassals aren't attacking. Part of this is the bug preventing player made vassals or captured cities from having their AI turned on. The other part is being on a passive world without knowing it.

Let the world threat level control how neutral free cities behave, and then once they are conquered by a player or ai switch them over to normal behavior. I find myself having to play every realm with the threat level set to "High" in order to have a good experience with vassals. Maybe have your alignment effect how regularly and how far they will go to attack enemies, this way you can build them up the more you align yourself with good over the course of the realm.

The world feels much more alive when vassals are active in conflicts. (Note: I doubt vassals would be able to kill a player as you can see here under normal circumstances, this was all setup to see what is possible and their behavior.)

 

[Big J Money]

Yes, setting the Threat Level to Normal or High to have functioning Vassals is not a fun implementation. A player selects World Threat Low because they want threats to be easier to deal with. Your own vassals are not a threat, hehe. It actually makes the game harder when your vassals don't protect you!

 

[The Founder]

But this thing is.... Vassals are not non-player entities. Free Cities are, but once they become vassals, they are now a part of (one of) the player's empires. Whether this is one of the AI opponents or a human player, either way they are no longer neutral and belonging to 'the world'.

Is it possible Vassals could just be removed from the world threat setting altogether? It seems that once a player has a vassal, they should have full war capabilities, and once the AI has a vassal, it should use the AI difficulty to determine their threat. If the AI is set to Easy, then all of their vassals should be passive, it seems.

Yes, setting the Threat Level to Normal or High to have functioning Vassals is not a fun implementation. A player selects World Threat Low because they want threats to be easier to deal with. Your own vassals are not a threat, hehe. It actually makes the game harder when your vassals don't protect you!

Absolutely.
World Threat - or Evironmental Threat as I would call it - should apply in Player vs Environment situations. Not in Player vs Player situations.

 

[Kujila]

Noticed this behavior as well. It would be nice if there's a way to mod-in to flag the player-released cities as autonomous, like map-generated free cities seem to be if peacefully annexed. That is really all I want - a way to toggle the vassal city AI to become an "active AI player"

Tried looking around in resource editor but I am a newb. Maybe it isn't as simple as flipping a switch.

 

[stigmund77]

Noticed this behavior as well. It would be nice if there's a way to mod-in to flag the player-released cities as autonomous, like map-generated free cities seem to be if peacefully annexed. That is really all I want - a way to toggle the vassal city AI to become an "active AI player"

Tried looking around in resource editor but I am a newb. Maybe it isn't as simple as flipping a switch.

I believe released vassals are supposed to act as regular vassal free cities, but right now their ai is not turned on.

Hopefully in the next general patch we can get a fix for this.