Vassals not breaking away from AI clan, even when having -100 relationship

[Widukind_86]

In my last game, I was playing as clan Ando and through careful diplomacy and opportunistic warfare managed to conquer a nice swath of northern Japan. My immediate neighbours to the south looked ripe for the picking, I had built up a nice retinue and my provinces were well developed. All in all, the future was bright.

But then there was clan Hosukawa. During the initial large war, it had managed to overrun all it's neighbours and was now nearing the critical 50% landmass ownership. I used all my ninja's trying to assassinate their leaders when their honour was high, and reduce their honour when it was low. There was simply no stopping them. They were in large debts from time to time though and at several points in the game, they had a -100 relationship with ALL of their vassals because they couldn't pay their levies. But they didn't rebel... why?? The other AI clans didn't manage to bring down Hosukawa, and being on the other side of the island, I was powerless to do anything about it, so lost the game when they declared themselves Shogun. Overall, a kinda lousy way to lose a game after coming from a great start.

So to sum up my rambling, how can a clan leader have a -100 relationship with all of his (dozens) vassals for an extended time and yet see none of them declaring themselves independent? Bug?

 

[unmerged(383227)]

They probably can't declare themselves independent, because they should have %10 of the clan's military power to do so. The %10 of half of Japan would be %5 of Japan, which is 15+ provinces. Another reason would be that these vassals are afraid to be eaten even if they declare independence, and they probably didn't have good relations with each other so they couldn't make a plot to form a new clan together either. Just an assumption though.

 

[InanimateJ]

If their relationship was so low, would it not be wise to attempt to invite them to join your clan instead, if you can get above the Hosukawa leadership in terms of honour? Should've been pretty easy if the honour requirement was met.

 

[Nefaro]

If their relationship was so low, would it not be wise to attempt to invite them to join your clan instead, if you can get above the Hosukawa leadership in terms of honour? Should've been pretty easy if the honour requirement was met.

You would think so. But has anyone ever succeeded in using "Invite To Clan"? I sure haven't, even though I've checked it many times, having higher Honor than their liege, and a green bonus relation to the vassal in question, who's unhappy with their liege at varying degrees.

edit:
-100 is the lowest relation value I've heard about in Sengoku. If it doesn't work at that, I fear it would never work. It definitely shouldn't be easy, but I'm not sure if it's possible.

 

[InanimateJ]

You would think so. But has anyone ever succeeded in using "Invite To Clan"? I sure haven't, even though I've checked it many times, having higher Honor than their liege, and a green bonus relation to the vassal in question, who's unhappy with their liege at varying degrees.

-100 is the lowest relation value I've heard about in Sengoku. If it doesn't work at that, I fear it would never work.

I haven't tried recently. I think there's another hidden factor in geolocation. If you're trying to invite someone on the far side of a liege's realm to yours, they might be less inclined to secede as you would have a difficult time defending them from the wrath of their former master.