Also playing PLC. My vassals have been fine. PU'd Brandenburg and fed them half of Germany. Released Novgorod and fed Russia to them. Both vassals are kicking ass and taking names.
Vassals have become worthless
- Thread starter dstarsboy
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I'm on 1.12 rather than 1.13, and as Qing I had a vassal Chu with about 100 development who fielded a very handy 25k troops to supplement my own forces. Granted, they took 25 years to annex without either Diplomatic or Influence Ideas, which was especially a pain because it left me with 1 diplomat for 25 years, but they certainly weren't useless.
If you have 1.13 installed, it's probably a problem with that. If you're on 1.12, it seems like a problem on your end rather than a bug experienced by the rest of us.
If you have 1.13 installed, it's probably a problem with that. If you're on 1.12, it seems like a problem on your end rather than a bug experienced by the rest of us.
feeding vassals same culture land might not make the vassal immediately lower autonomy, which means the vassal actually has money to do stuff
Notice how the AI is designed to disband most of its troops as soon as it gets diplo-vassalized.
It is likely that Vassal AI is designed to consider their Force Limit to be much smaller than it actually is.
It is likely that Vassal AI is designed to consider their Force Limit to be much smaller than it actually is.
AI is always buggy. There are more and more AI bugs thread recently. Hopefully the devs could fix it.
Those lands a kind of poor and armies are about a 1/2 or a 1/3rd the size they were in 1.11. There force limits get halved again due to being your vassal and you take around half their income as well.
My Moldavia with less provinces than yours had a higher force limit and was a great asset in my Commonwealth game. Strange. I tend to make all my mid size vassals marches now in 1.12 and 1.13 because increased integration cost.
To a certain extent that is simply from their decreased income(independent nation bonus to subject) and increased costs(have to pay tribute) so if it is a small country that is not a trade power it can easily end up with half the money to spend on things thus army gets reduced.
Easy way to see this is to have a vassal that mainly makes money from tax. Gift them enough to build troops while you have 0 legitimacy and are not feudal monarchy. Then after they build console legitimacy to 100 and switch to feudal.
- 1
No I don't believe that's what it is.
My vassals are fielding fewer troops as they get bigger, and the game gets later.
In other words they are saving money for something.
I'm talking about like Prussia, Bohemia, Bavaria etc.
150 development 9 Province Prussia is fielding 2000 troops right now, 34 development Siena with 1 province is fielding 6000.
I have a suspicious feeling they are saving up for higher level forts.
Limit for diplo-vassalization is 100 dev. That means even the biggest possible diplo vassals will lose roughly one third of their base force limit when they drop from +7 independent to +2 Subject. No surprise they are disbanding troops.
- 2
I wonder if the bugfix for increased LD when you attached to vassals' armies messed up their AI somehow. Maybe they're taking your standing army into account?
I'm sorry but I don't buy the whole "0 troops" Sure maybe their forcelimits are low and all that but i think the rest was cheated in for overexagguration :\
Otherwise a bug like previous comments
Otherwise a bug like previous comments
- 1
I have a similar case in my 1.13 beta game. In my Polish game, after one of their army being wipe out by TEU, my PU Lithuania won't recruiting another army to replace the lost, even long after the end of the war. So with 350 or so development, my Lithuania could only muster 15k troops now. I'm not sure if it's a bug or WAD.
I had Leon for a vasal to whom I feeded entire France and Iberia (1.12). However, they never had more than 10k troops and I had to guard their country with my own stack, otherwise even peasants could destroy their country.
There is lots of speculation here, I fail to see why tag switching and actually looking at the numbers isn't the easiest way to figure this out.
I encounter similar behaviour in my game (1.12). It's rare. I just annexed my useless vassal. If you feed vassal quickly (50% LA -> 75% if wrong religion/culture), vassal will maintain its forts to prevent rebels from fast enforcing their demands. It's far better to found forts, but not army if you can't afford both e.g. due to high LA, vassals fees (have you aristocratic or influence IGs?) [as vassal, overlord need time to clean your rebels]. No funding for forts => even single random event revolt is disaster. It's strange that vassals can't call you (sort of pop up "Halp plox~~! Or i will gib my clay to neighbours and won't recruit single solder ever!") to help them with their own internal problem as last resort.
Funding forts is much bigger problem in less developed areas. You pay same moneys for securing 5 provinces 25 dev each and 5 provinces 3 dev each. This is WAI.
Subjects won't meant to be giant countries feed for long time. They are just buffer zone, semi-independent marionette to be integrated into overlord's administration ASAP. This is precisely how most players (AFAIK) use them. I don't think it think it makes sense even from historical perspective.. Long-living dependant territories were small or overseas (however reasons were different).
@OP - Your vassals are to big (constant +tax income is irrelevant for them) and mostly wrong culture or wrong religion. Did you use Denmark to control Scandinavia (same culture group, religion)? Steppes of Asia have a lot of low dev cultures (relatively new change). Your Golden Horde probably don't accept most of cultures in its territory (check unrest in provinces to be sure), possibly they have some orthodox provinces as well. You fed Moldavia a lot of different religion/different culture group territories as well.
Funding forts is much bigger problem in less developed areas. You pay same moneys for securing 5 provinces 25 dev each and 5 provinces 3 dev each. This is WAI.
Subjects won't meant to be giant countries feed for long time. They are just buffer zone, semi-independent marionette to be integrated into overlord's administration ASAP. This is precisely how most players (AFAIK) use them. I don't think it think it makes sense even from historical perspective.. Long-living dependant territories were small or overseas (however reasons were different).
@OP - Your vassals are to big (constant +tax income is irrelevant for them) and mostly wrong culture or wrong religion. Did you use Denmark to control Scandinavia (same culture group, religion)? Steppes of Asia have a lot of low dev cultures (relatively new change). Your Golden Horde probably don't accept most of cultures in its territory (check unrest in provinces to be sure), possibly they have some orthodox provinces as well. You fed Moldavia a lot of different religion/different culture group territories as well.
Last edited:
This looks like a bug. In my current Prussia game I have two huge marches, Mazovia(basically congress poland and a few other provinces) and Riga (the baltic). They are pretty much invaluable to me as they both have an army of 30k soldiers.
yeah, it seems like feeding your vassals cultures from their own group or ones that they will easily accept is pretty important, otherwise they barely get anything of the land you give them.