Vassals have become worthless
- Thread starter dstarsboy
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do hordes need to be reformed to westernize ? its been a long time since i played in that region
That looks like a really really weird and awful bug. I'm playing as France and both my vassals (Brittany and Leon) seem to be functioning fine.
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Yep.
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You should be able to place a relative or yourself on the throne of a vassal instead. Costing you AE of course. But giving you the chance to inherit the nation.
I haven't had any of these issues with my vassals in v1.12
The 0 standing army aside, i'm intrigued by the FL issue. Can you provide a bit more info:
1. GH's total development
2. the LA mapmode for GH
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Odd, Arakan with basically the starting Arakan and Ava lands as my Ming vassal regularly contributes 2 stacks of 19 each of regular, modern troops that are constantly full maintenance even in peacetime (OTOH I as Ming have only 200-something regiments scattered over the globe... including 50 in Iberia 
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OP looks likes a bug.
Besides, integrating large vassals kinda requires influence as idea group, else it takes ages. And diplo points are very good for development.
Look on the bright side at least now you have 3 diplomats. Crap change, but well it´s good for something.
Besides, integrating large vassals kinda requires influence as idea group, else it takes ages. And diplo points are very good for development.
Look on the bright side at least now you have 3 diplomats. Crap change, but well it´s good for something.
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If you had read the thread
So no "free" 3rd diplomat. But way to sling your pet-peeve for the beta into a completely unrelated thread.
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I'll get these for you tonight. I know GH dev is over 300 or whatever that threshold is that gives you the nasty Liberty Desire spike because they're around 44% and I was looking at why but either way I'll get you screenshots.
One telling indication that the 0 troops thing is also a problem is that Maldova has almost 30k manpower but hasn't built any troops. This is at peace time and after simulating several years. I think even with very high Local Autonomy, this seems odd.
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Can you tag switch to them and get the tooltip info on their FL make up?
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In my WC I noticed this as well. Vassals simply don't field troops unless you feed them the right land. In fact if you feed a vassal large enough it will go bankrupt on its own, which happened 7 times in my campaign to three different vassals (trust me this caused me immense annoyance especially since squashing rebels in Siberia sucks)
Here are the reasons:
1) Vassals are extremely bad at judging what forts they need to maintain, and fort maintenance is expensive since they won't mothball/destroy internal forts like a human would.
2) Since you are feeding them tons of land, they will generally increase local autonomy immediately, meaning they gain little money from the land they control. However they will continue to maintain forts they annex, meaning things get bad very quickly.
3) Vassals, being duchy status most of the time, have very few means of getting ticking autonomy reduction, which means that if you're constantly at war, your vassals will constantly be impoverished.
You can counteract this by subsidizing your vassals but this can be a frustrating due to it being rooted in AI vassals not being coded to handle fort expenses and local autonomy very well. "Subsidize fort expenses" and "I will handle your revolts, please don't increase LA on land I feed you" subject interactions would be handy in this regard.
I was able to get a 52 regiment oldenburg and a 20 regiment Hainaut in that game. I think that's mostly due to feeding them high quality same culture land though (Hainaut had Paris + Champagne. A human could probably field 40+ regiments off of that but what you gonna do). Having decent trade income helps too as that doesn't get nuked by local autonomy too badly.
Here are the reasons:
1) Vassals are extremely bad at judging what forts they need to maintain, and fort maintenance is expensive since they won't mothball/destroy internal forts like a human would.
2) Since you are feeding them tons of land, they will generally increase local autonomy immediately, meaning they gain little money from the land they control. However they will continue to maintain forts they annex, meaning things get bad very quickly.
3) Vassals, being duchy status most of the time, have very few means of getting ticking autonomy reduction, which means that if you're constantly at war, your vassals will constantly be impoverished.
You can counteract this by subsidizing your vassals but this can be a frustrating due to it being rooted in AI vassals not being coded to handle fort expenses and local autonomy very well. "Subsidize fort expenses" and "I will handle your revolts, please don't increase LA on land I feed you" subject interactions would be handy in this regard.
I was able to get a 52 regiment oldenburg and a 20 regiment Hainaut in that game. I think that's mostly due to feeding them high quality same culture land though (Hainaut had Paris + Champagne. A human could probably field 40+ regiments off of that but what you gonna do). Having decent trade income helps too as that doesn't get nuked by local autonomy too badly.
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The LA may be key then.
If it's not too far above 300 dev, that's a base FL of 30.
If they've taken some beatings from rebels driving up LA, it's unlikely but possible for theirs to have dropped down to 13.5ish
Things is, vassals are not supposed to be allies but exploited weaklings.
There is a reason they are weak. They give income to you.
Want GOOD allies, use REGULAR allies.
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I agree with these points so much.
1) My vassal had two forts next to each other in a large blob of territory, always mothballed. This is fine. But then during war they choose to activate forts near borders with my territory instead of these, which are, unfortunately, exposed. They get occupied and have to be sieged back every frickin' war unless I babysit them.
2) Big factor if you are at war all the time, especially if your vassals have tech penalties or are lagging behind, as OP's GH westernisation must have done. Right now as GH myself I had >70% in some of the provinces I first conquered for about 150 years. Vassal Timurids has half their provinces at >90%. I mean, seriously.
3) That + war + fort maintenance + payments to their overlord can crippled them. My same vassal Timmy fielded 2 whole infantry regiments even after I fed him over 200 development of his own cores, for over 50 years. It improved over time, though.
I think it comes from the fact that no matter how small, all INDEPENDENT nations get bonuses. +12 naval force limit is a big deal. As it is a poor OPM can pretty much equally fight a poor neighbour that is three times the size.
I think you could scutage them then subsidize them back the income, just to allow the vassal to lose LA. It's annoying when you DOW in ironman and then realize you scutaged the one you are supposed to be feeding, though.
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what others have written makes sense, I know I have Fed Aragon most of N Africa in my Castile WC run, and they have barely increased their Forcelimit at all, suggesting that its all at high LA and contributing nothing to their country at all.
Whereas England who has had all its cores returned as quickly built up to 30 regiments.
Whereas England who has had all its cores returned as quickly built up to 30 regiments.
In 1.12, I had exactly opposite experience: my marches were mothballing all their forts (those built by me and those conquered) in peace-time and during war, and my enemies got free warscore sometimes. After a fort had been desieged, those marches remembered to maintain it…but only untill the end of war. During peace they were mothballing again. This all happened with over 100 gold in their treasury and 2+ gpm income.