So, I noticed that it's almost impossible to annex large vassals with the latest changes, which I'm completely fine with keeping them around long term but they are utterly useless!
As PLC, I have 2 very large vassals. A westernized Golden Horde, who is roughly the size of Kazan, GH, Crimia, Georgia, etc combined. But they constantly have ZERO troops and their force limit is 15!!! Yes, not a type-o, it's 15. They are westernized and huge (65 provinces!) but they have the same force limit as, like, 4 province Ava.
It will take me 70 years to annex them and they are a steaming pile of poop.
I thought, "that's ok, they have poor lands and who knows. I have another vassal who's a MARCH, which should be pretty awesome." They ate all of hungary and a large portion of the most valuable lands from the Ottomans. Surely, they will be somewhat helpful.
Uh... no. They also almost always have ZERO troops and their force limit is 29, with the MARCH boost... When I go to war, they typically create 4 mercenaries and send them out to be killed but that's about as much help as I get.
They will take even longer to annex than the GH.
In summary, it seems like vassals provide an incredibly minuscule amount of value.
Does anyone else have this same experience?
************** UPDATE ***************
Ok, so people were asking for more information so I fired up the game and continued below. (aka, this rules out the "restart the game and the AI it will fix the AI" solution.)
Here's proof that GH is westernized.
Moldavia income. Monthly 16, Treasury 399
GH income. Monthly 17, Treasury 74
I currently have 4 large vassals (3 marches, GH is not a march because I decided to try and annex them). You can see the troops they contribute here. Denmark 50, Moscovy 50, Moldovia 0, GH 0.
The screenshots above were taken in 1712 so I decided to sim the game full speed with very few wars and see if these 2 vassals decide to pull their heads out of their bums.
Here's 20 years later. Small war with 7 province ottomans (they had no allies) but those 2 vassals contributed no troops. As you can see these 2 vassals are still worthless.
Simmed another 10 years. Took a couple of provinces from Bohemia, that's pretty much it. I'm currently in a war with an OPM because I was defender of the faith.
Ok, so the fact that my other vassals have tons of troops sort of proves that these 2 can't just be getting stack wiped constantly in 30 years in 2 small wars. They are clearly worthless.
A bit more investigating and it's very clear that these 2, for some reason, cannot handle their local autonomy at all.
Here is my findings by scanning through their provinces (sorry, I don't know how to use the console to tag switch in order to get LA heat maps). This is after 30 years of 2 small wars. I also ONLY looked at provinces where that:
1) They are cored
2) They have green culture
3) They have green religion
All other provinces I assume autonomy would exist so I didn't look at them.
Moscovy (108 provinces) 99 FL - Principality - Western - Orthodox - March
Local autonomy is roughly 14%-34% on half of their cores where they have green religion and green culture.
Golden Horde (65 provinces) 20 FL - Emirate - Western - Sunni - Vassal
They have one province with 0% autonomy, their capital. All other cores that are green culture and green religion have 42% - 77% autonomy. 0 unrest in these provinces.
Moldavia (57 provinces) 42 FL - Principality - Western - Orthodox - March
They have 2 provinces with 0% autonomy. All other cores that are green culture and green religion have 34%-75% autonomy. 0 unrest in these provinces.
Denmark (35 provinces) 56 FL - March - Western - Protestant
They have 0 provinces with autonomy.
Here's Golden Horde's core province, directly beside their capital that they've had since the beginning of the game.
Here is Moldovia's coastal province that they've had since the beginning of the game.
I am not sure what causes these vassals to be so worthless and stop functioning properly. Moldavia is identical to Moscovy in religion/government/etc but Moscovy seems to be able to semi-handle their Local Autonomy.
Anyways, yeah, sounds like a bug. Somewhat of a game breaker if you're trying for one of those larger achievements. Hopefully it gets fixed soon.
As PLC, I have 2 very large vassals. A westernized Golden Horde, who is roughly the size of Kazan, GH, Crimia, Georgia, etc combined. But they constantly have ZERO troops and their force limit is 15!!! Yes, not a type-o, it's 15. They are westernized and huge (65 provinces!) but they have the same force limit as, like, 4 province Ava.
It will take me 70 years to annex them and they are a steaming pile of poop.
I thought, "that's ok, they have poor lands and who knows. I have another vassal who's a MARCH, which should be pretty awesome." They ate all of hungary and a large portion of the most valuable lands from the Ottomans. Surely, they will be somewhat helpful.
Uh... no. They also almost always have ZERO troops and their force limit is 29, with the MARCH boost... When I go to war, they typically create 4 mercenaries and send them out to be killed but that's about as much help as I get.
They will take even longer to annex than the GH.
In summary, it seems like vassals provide an incredibly minuscule amount of value.
Does anyone else have this same experience?
************** UPDATE ***************
Ok, so people were asking for more information so I fired up the game and continued below. (aka, this rules out the "restart the game and the AI it will fix the AI" solution.)
Here's proof that GH is westernized.
Moldavia income. Monthly 16, Treasury 399
GH income. Monthly 17, Treasury 74
I currently have 4 large vassals (3 marches, GH is not a march because I decided to try and annex them). You can see the troops they contribute here. Denmark 50, Moscovy 50, Moldovia 0, GH 0.
The screenshots above were taken in 1712 so I decided to sim the game full speed with very few wars and see if these 2 vassals decide to pull their heads out of their bums.
Here's 20 years later. Small war with 7 province ottomans (they had no allies) but those 2 vassals contributed no troops. As you can see these 2 vassals are still worthless.
Simmed another 10 years. Took a couple of provinces from Bohemia, that's pretty much it. I'm currently in a war with an OPM because I was defender of the faith.
Ok, so the fact that my other vassals have tons of troops sort of proves that these 2 can't just be getting stack wiped constantly in 30 years in 2 small wars. They are clearly worthless.
A bit more investigating and it's very clear that these 2, for some reason, cannot handle their local autonomy at all.
Here is my findings by scanning through their provinces (sorry, I don't know how to use the console to tag switch in order to get LA heat maps). This is after 30 years of 2 small wars. I also ONLY looked at provinces where that:
1) They are cored
2) They have green culture
3) They have green religion
All other provinces I assume autonomy would exist so I didn't look at them.
Moscovy (108 provinces) 99 FL - Principality - Western - Orthodox - March
Local autonomy is roughly 14%-34% on half of their cores where they have green religion and green culture.
Golden Horde (65 provinces) 20 FL - Emirate - Western - Sunni - Vassal
They have one province with 0% autonomy, their capital. All other cores that are green culture and green religion have 42% - 77% autonomy. 0 unrest in these provinces.
Moldavia (57 provinces) 42 FL - Principality - Western - Orthodox - March
They have 2 provinces with 0% autonomy. All other cores that are green culture and green religion have 34%-75% autonomy. 0 unrest in these provinces.
Denmark (35 provinces) 56 FL - March - Western - Protestant
They have 0 provinces with autonomy.
Here's Golden Horde's core province, directly beside their capital that they've had since the beginning of the game.
Here is Moldovia's coastal province that they've had since the beginning of the game.
I am not sure what causes these vassals to be so worthless and stop functioning properly. Moldavia is identical to Moscovy in religion/government/etc but Moscovy seems to be able to semi-handle their Local Autonomy.
Anyways, yeah, sounds like a bug. Somewhat of a game breaker if you're trying for one of those larger achievements. Hopefully it gets fixed soon.
Last edited:
- 19
- 9
- 3
